RENESISFD's Robust Build: Powered by Pepperoni Pizza and Chikken Nuggets
i was basically just wondering why you'd go through the hassle, and i'd default to saying "no" without hearing an explanation of what you plan on doing with the car (garage queen? driving one time to deals gap and home? track car? weekend car? DD?).
i'm assuming you've checked out this thread, and that you're going to run a system similar to the JPG i attached:
Official Haltech Forums • View topic - Electric Water pump control
but the real conversation is on the concept of the EWP itself, in relation to our cars and very customized setups: why substantially change your cooling system and "blaze the trail," as they say (as very few people have done this on FDs), when the stock cooling system with a quality VMIC setup works very well?
don't get me wrong; i'm a fan of innovating and trying something new, but i'm not sold on the EWP, basically because the system you're replacing it with (belt drive OE pump) is stupid reliable and works well with a stock or slightly modified mechanical thermostat.
i'm an advocate of "keeping it simple" with these cars, which some people disagree with (see also: mannykiller and XL8R --both of whom blew their engines, coincidentally). now, others may read this and say "AUX INJECTION HAS PROVEN TO ALLOW US TO RUN HIGHER BOOST WITH REGULAR GASOLINE." while that's probably true, it is still (in my opinion) just one more of the SEVERAL systems we're relying on to meet our goals (track car, 600whp dyno queen, weekend cruiser, etc.).
this is a separate pump, custom AN fittings and lines, a water flange to mount to the front iron, mounting for the pump, a solid state relay, wiring for the relay and pump, and ecu mapping for the pump. that's just all crap i don't want to deal with when i'm trying to make my car as reliable as possible on the track.
i'm considering an EWP/SSR to currently be just another one of those systems that isn't quite necessary, and will further complicate your setup.
i was basically just wondering why you'd go through the hassle, and i'd default to saying "no" without hearing an explanation of what you plan on doing with the car (garage queen? driving one time to deals gap and home? track car? weekend car? DD?).
i'm assuming you've checked out this thread, and that you're going to run a system similar to the JPG i attached:
Official Haltech Forums • View topic - Electric Water pump control
but the real conversation is on the concept of the EWP itself, in relation to our cars and very customized setups: why substantially change your cooling system and "blaze the trail," as they say (as very few people have done this on FDs), when the stock cooling system with a quality VMIC setup works very well?
don't get me wrong; i'm a fan of innovating and trying something new, but i'm not sold on the EWP, basically because the system you're replacing it with (belt drive OE pump) is stupid reliable and works well with a stock or slightly modified mechanical thermostat.
i'm an advocate of "keeping it simple" with these cars, which some people disagree with (see also: mannykiller and XL8R --both of whom blew their engines, coincidentally). now, others may read this and say "AUX INJECTION HAS PROVEN TO ALLOW US TO RUN HIGHER BOOST WITH REGULAR GASOLINE." while that's probably true, it is still (in my opinion) just one more of the SEVERAL systems we're relying on to meet our goals (track car, 600whp dyno queen, weekend cruiser, etc.).
this is a separate pump, custom AN fittings and lines, a water flange to mount to the front iron, mounting for the pump, a solid state relay, wiring for the relay and pump, and ecu mapping for the pump. that's just all crap i don't want to deal with when i'm trying to make my car as reliable as possible on the track.
i'm considering an EWP/SSR to currently be just another one of those systems that isn't quite necessary, and will further complicate your setup.
i'm assuming you've checked out this thread, and that you're going to run a system similar to the JPG i attached:
Official Haltech Forums • View topic - Electric Water pump control
but the real conversation is on the concept of the EWP itself, in relation to our cars and very customized setups: why substantially change your cooling system and "blaze the trail," as they say (as very few people have done this on FDs), when the stock cooling system with a quality VMIC setup works very well?
don't get me wrong; i'm a fan of innovating and trying something new, but i'm not sold on the EWP, basically because the system you're replacing it with (belt drive OE pump) is stupid reliable and works well with a stock or slightly modified mechanical thermostat.
i'm an advocate of "keeping it simple" with these cars, which some people disagree with (see also: mannykiller and XL8R --both of whom blew their engines, coincidentally). now, others may read this and say "AUX INJECTION HAS PROVEN TO ALLOW US TO RUN HIGHER BOOST WITH REGULAR GASOLINE." while that's probably true, it is still (in my opinion) just one more of the SEVERAL systems we're relying on to meet our goals (track car, 600whp dyno queen, weekend cruiser, etc.).
this is a separate pump, custom AN fittings and lines, a water flange to mount to the front iron, mounting for the pump, a solid state relay, wiring for the relay and pump, and ecu mapping for the pump. that's just all crap i don't want to deal with when i'm trying to make my car as reliable as possible on the track.
i'm considering an EWP/SSR to currently be just another one of those systems that isn't quite necessary, and will further complicate your setup.
the real conversation is on the concept of the EWP itself, in relation to our cars and very customized setups: why substantially change your cooling system and "blaze the trail," as they say (as very few people have done this on FDs), when the stock cooling system with a quality VMIC setup works very well?
don't get me wrong; i'm a fan of innovating and trying something new, but i'm not sold on the EWP, basically because the system you're replacing it with (belt drive OE pump) is stupid reliable and works well with a stock or slightly modified mechanical thermostat
don't get me wrong; i'm a fan of innovating and trying something new, but i'm not sold on the EWP, basically because the system you're replacing it with (belt drive OE pump) is stupid reliable and works well with a stock or slightly modified mechanical thermostat
Simple and reliable can go hand in hand when done correctly. Adding an EWP when the current cooling system (with a V-mount and proper ducting) is almost flawless doesn't make sense.
Race cars use them, yes...but is this going to be a race car?
I would love to use an EWP, but I don't see the need for one. I feel I could use my money elsewhere.
Race cars use them, yes...but is this going to be a race car?
I would love to use an EWP, but I don't see the need for one. I feel I could use my money elsewhere.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,243
Likes: 42
From: Kennewick, Washington
I'm designing my system around an electronic water pump.
Here is why: Flow based on temperature. Always have a minimum flow to prevent hotspots or localized boiling. But you can be at idle and have your water flowing like the engine was at red line. Better for stop and go traffic by a long shot.
And one less item to have a belt attached to.
And an ewp is usually more efficient flow versus required power. Especially at higher rpm with a mechanical water pump.
Here is why: Flow based on temperature. Always have a minimum flow to prevent hotspots or localized boiling. But you can be at idle and have your water flowing like the engine was at red line. Better for stop and go traffic by a long shot.
And one less item to have a belt attached to.
And an ewp is usually more efficient flow versus required power. Especially at higher rpm with a mechanical water pump.
also, i was not trying to present any opinion for the purpose of arguing, just simply saying "don't do it" based on not having any other info as to why it needs to be done. i default to "keep it simple."An EWR is hardly "blazing the trail". If he wants to do an EWR then so what? It would clean up the front of the engine pretty significantly, especially if it's the kind that mounts to the radiator. And if it's set up correctly, it's not going to be unreliable. Why do you think high end race cars use them?
and addressing the second part of your post (posted by the guy with the twincharged FD): of all the modded RX7s on this forum, especially those who track their cars somewhat regularly, how many would you guess are running a Haltech with solid state relay and an electric water pump?
I'm designing my system around an electronic water pump.
Here is why: Flow based on temperature. Always have a minimum flow to prevent hotspots or localized boiling. But you can be at idle and have your water flowing like the engine was at red line. Better for stop and go traffic by a long shot.
And one less item to have a belt attached to.
And an ewp is usually more efficient flow versus required power. Especially at higher rpm with a mechanical water pump.
Here is why: Flow based on temperature. Always have a minimum flow to prevent hotspots or localized boiling. But you can be at idle and have your water flowing like the engine was at red line. Better for stop and go traffic by a long shot.
And one less item to have a belt attached to.
And an ewp is usually more efficient flow versus required power. Especially at higher rpm with a mechanical water pump.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 9
From: Long Island NY 11746
i was basically just wondering why you'd go through the hassle, and i'd default to saying "no" without hearing an explanation of what you plan on doing with the car (garage queen? driving one time to deals gap and home? track car? weekend car? DD?).
i'm assuming you've checked out this thread, and that you're going to run a system similar to the JPG i attached:
Official Haltech Forums • View topic - Electric Water pump control
but the real conversation is on the concept of the EWP itself, in relation to our cars and very customized setups: why substantially change your cooling system and "blaze the trail," as they say (as very few people have done this on FDs), when the stock cooling system with a quality VMIC setup works very well?
don't get me wrong; i'm a fan of innovating and trying something new, but i'm not sold on the EWP, basically because the system you're replacing it with (belt drive OE pump) is stupid reliable and works well with a stock or slightly modified mechanical thermostat.
i'm an advocate of "keeping it simple" with these cars, which some people disagree with (see also: mannykiller and XL8R --both of whom blew their engines, coincidentally). now, others may read this and say "AUX INJECTION HAS PROVEN TO ALLOW US TO RUN HIGHER BOOST WITH REGULAR GASOLINE." while that's probably true, it is still (in my opinion) just one more of the SEVERAL systems we're relying on to meet our goals (track car, 600whp dyno queen, weekend cruiser, etc.).
this is a separate pump, custom AN fittings and lines, a water flange to mount to the front iron, mounting for the pump, a solid state relay, wiring for the relay and pump, and ecu mapping for the pump. that's just all crap i don't want to deal with when i'm trying to make my car as reliable as possible on the track.
i'm considering an EWP/SSR to currently be just another one of those systems that isn't quite necessary, and will further complicate your setup.
i'm assuming you've checked out this thread, and that you're going to run a system similar to the JPG i attached:
Official Haltech Forums • View topic - Electric Water pump control
but the real conversation is on the concept of the EWP itself, in relation to our cars and very customized setups: why substantially change your cooling system and "blaze the trail," as they say (as very few people have done this on FDs), when the stock cooling system with a quality VMIC setup works very well?
don't get me wrong; i'm a fan of innovating and trying something new, but i'm not sold on the EWP, basically because the system you're replacing it with (belt drive OE pump) is stupid reliable and works well with a stock or slightly modified mechanical thermostat.
i'm an advocate of "keeping it simple" with these cars, which some people disagree with (see also: mannykiller and XL8R --both of whom blew their engines, coincidentally). now, others may read this and say "AUX INJECTION HAS PROVEN TO ALLOW US TO RUN HIGHER BOOST WITH REGULAR GASOLINE." while that's probably true, it is still (in my opinion) just one more of the SEVERAL systems we're relying on to meet our goals (track car, 600whp dyno queen, weekend cruiser, etc.).
this is a separate pump, custom AN fittings and lines, a water flange to mount to the front iron, mounting for the pump, a solid state relay, wiring for the relay and pump, and ecu mapping for the pump. that's just all crap i don't want to deal with when i'm trying to make my car as reliable as possible on the track.
i'm considering an EWP/SSR to currently be just another one of those systems that isn't quite necessary, and will further complicate your setup.
Yes similar setup to that haltech thread.
This car although the title says garage queen is basically a track car that I will drive on the street. I am not as concerned with the daily drivability of the car as I purchased a newer daily driver a few months ago.
The thread title changes are me and goodfella having fun making fun of eachothers cars. So we change eachothers thread titles for laughs.
An EWR is hardly "blazing the trail". If he wants to do an EWR then so what? It would clean up the front of the engine pretty significantly, especially if it's the kind that mounts to the radiator. And if it's set up correctly, it's not going to be unreliable. Why do you think high end race cars use them?
Simple and reliable can go hand in hand when done correctly. Adding an EWP when the current cooling system (with a V-mount and proper ducting) is almost flawless doesn't make sense.
Race cars use them, yes...but is this going to be a race car?
I would love to use an EWP, but I don't see the need for one. I feel I could use my money elsewhere.
Race cars use them, yes...but is this going to be a race car?
I would love to use an EWP, but I don't see the need for one. I feel I could use my money elsewhere.
I'm designing my system around an electronic water pump.
Here is why: Flow based on temperature. Always have a minimum flow to prevent hotspots or localized boiling. But you can be at idle and have your water flowing like the engine was at red line. Better for stop and go traffic by a long shot.
And one less item to have a belt attached to.
And an ewp is usually more efficient flow versus required power. Especially at higher rpm with a mechanical water pump.
Here is why: Flow based on temperature. Always have a minimum flow to prevent hotspots or localized boiling. But you can be at idle and have your water flowing like the engine was at red line. Better for stop and go traffic by a long shot.
And one less item to have a belt attached to.
And an ewp is usually more efficient flow versus required power. Especially at higher rpm with a mechanical water pump.
ok that is a very good point also, i was not trying to present any opinion for the purpose of arguing, just simply saying "don't do it" based on not having any other info as to why it needs to be done. i default to "keep it simple."
if he wants to do it, then yeah, i agree; "so what." i was just offering my opinion.
and addressing the second part of your post (posted by the guy with the twincharged FD): of all the modded RX7s on this forum, especially those who track their cars somewhat regularly, how many would you guess are running a Haltech with solid state relay and an electric water pump?
those are all valid points, and it all sounds great in theory. i'm not attacking the EWP system here, people. do whatever you want.
also, i was not trying to present any opinion for the purpose of arguing, just simply saying "don't do it" based on not having any other info as to why it needs to be done. i default to "keep it simple."if he wants to do it, then yeah, i agree; "so what." i was just offering my opinion.
and addressing the second part of your post (posted by the guy with the twincharged FD): of all the modded RX7s on this forum, especially those who track their cars somewhat regularly, how many would you guess are running a Haltech with solid state relay and an electric water pump?
those are all valid points, and it all sounds great in theory. i'm not attacking the EWP system here, people. do whatever you want.
Like monkman has stated there are some good reasons to run an EWP
1. More power
2. Looks cool
3. Relocate alterntor to side of engine.
4. Run coolant after shutdown.
5. I like how It cleans up the front of the engine.
6. No high RPM cavitation.
7. Maximum cooling at low RPM's if needed.
8. My Haltech can run it like a boss.
9. Utilizing more features of my ECU
There are definitely benefits and drawbacks to an EWP. For me the benefits and simplifying the engine bay look is more important than keeping the mechanical pump.
I will be using a pierburg cwa400 EWP that is OEM on BMW's. My main concern with running an EWP when the OEM system is reliable was the reliability of the EWP itself. Using an aftermarket manufacturer that can not provide real engineering and flow data was a big no-no for me. I was talking to afgmoto1976 and he suggested using one form a BMW. Once I looked into it those are an OEM pupm that can be purchased for CHEAPER than the expensive aftermarket brands with proven OEM reliability and actual flow data that the other companies can not provide. Plus they can be if needed be purchased from BMW deales nation wide. unlike the aftermarket brands. The kicker is the housing is aluminum so I can weld more wiggins ferrules and have more wiggins clamps. HAHA
This pump is not rad mounted but it is much better and more robust, I am going to look into mounting it where the AC compressor is.
OHHH I see a sexy white car that needs a build thread.
Drag has no comparison to a DD car or a track car. Reliability is not nearly as important.
BTW, in the next few days keep an eye out for a 95 White FD build by big brosio and tig418. It is gonna be a sweet build with real nice parts.
Last edited by RENESISFD; Dec 22, 2013 at 09:43 AM.
well i'll be looking forward to see how the EWP works out, especially if it's mounted on the front iron in place of the AC compressor. maybe i'll change my mind
like i said, i don't dislike the idea, i was just saying the stock system is so easy and reliable, why not just rock it out for many track days to come...
like i said, i don't dislike the idea, i was just saying the stock system is so easy and reliable, why not just rock it out for many track days to come...
The kicker is the housing is aluminum so I can weld more wiggins ferrules and have more wiggins clamps. HAHA
Love following this build as always!
i'm an advocate of "keeping it simple" with these cars, which some people disagree with (see also: mannykiller and XL8R --both of whom blew their engines, coincidentally). now, others may read this and say "AUX INJECTION HAS PROVEN TO ALLOW US TO RUN HIGHER BOOST WITH REGULAR GASOLINE." while that's probably true, it is still (in my opinion) just one more of the SEVERAL systems we're relying on to meet our goals (track car, 600whp dyno queen, weekend cruiser, etc.).
Jacob, I know you keep telling people to look at my thread, but it seams as though you are telling them an example of what not to do. Anyone that thinks you can make that kind of power with a 1.3 liter without risks is either very naive, or just too damn dumb to know better. ANY setup using ANY fuel has the potential to fail. That potential is greatly increased when you make those kind of numbers.
Sure, keep it simple.... and make much less power. It's pretty obvious power level has a direct correlation with reliability. I don't think this is a new concept.
John, everything is looking awesome man! That color combo is going to blow my mind in person! Can't wait to see it.
i am sorry if i upset you, josh.
i did refer to your thread as an example of "what not to do," but only because you're chasing big #s and you (were) depending on a 13b with high boost and aux injection. i simply don't agree with that. it's just a personal opinion.
i focused my efforts on keeping the power relatively low and having reliability at track events, which i think is a goal of brosio's as well. he asked for my opinion, so i responded with my opinion. please don't take offense.
i couldn't agree more.
i focused my efforts on keeping the power relatively low and having reliability at track events, which i think is a goal of brosio's as well. he asked for my opinion, so i responded with my opinion. please don't take offense.
Anyone that thinks you can make that kind of power with a 1.3 liter without risks is either very naive, or just too damn dumb to know better. ANY setup using ANY fuel has the potential to fail. That potential is greatly increased when you make those kind of numbers.
Sure, keep it simple.... and make much less power. It's pretty obvious power level has a direct correlation with reliability. I don't think this is a new concept.
Sure, keep it simple.... and make much less power. It's pretty obvious power level has a direct correlation with reliability. I don't think this is a new concept.
i am sorry if i upset you, josh.
i did refer to your thread as an example of "what not to do," but only because you're chasing big #s and you (were) depending on a 13b with high boost and aux injection. i simply don't agree with that. it's just a personal opinion.
i focused my efforts on keeping the power relatively low and having reliability at track events, which i think is a goal of brosio's as well. he asked for my opinion, so i responded with my opinion. please don't take offense.
i couldn't agree more.
i did refer to your thread as an example of "what not to do," but only because you're chasing big #s and you (were) depending on a 13b with high boost and aux injection. i simply don't agree with that. it's just a personal opinion.
i focused my efforts on keeping the power relatively low and having reliability at track events, which i think is a goal of brosio's as well. he asked for my opinion, so i responded with my opinion. please don't take offense.
i couldn't agree more.
Cheers
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 9
From: Long Island NY 11746
well i'll be looking forward to see how the EWP works out, especially if it's mounted on the front iron in place of the AC compressor. maybe i'll change my mind
like i said, i don't dislike the idea, i was just saying the stock system is so easy and reliable, why not just rock it out for many track days to come...
like i said, i don't dislike the idea, i was just saying the stock system is so easy and reliable, why not just rock it out for many track days to come...
Thanks,
Just you wait till you see what I do with my fuel lines
Yeah John... Don't be like me!!
Jacob, I know you keep telling people to look at my thread, but it seams as though you are telling them an example of what not to do. Anyone that thinks you can make that kind of power with a 1.3 liter without risks is either very naive, or just too damn dumb to know better. ANY setup using ANY fuel has the potential to fail. That potential is greatly increased when you make those kind of numbers.
Sure, keep it simple.... and make much less power. It's pretty obvious power level has a direct correlation with reliability. I don't think this is a new concept.
John, everything is looking awesome man! That color combo is going to blow my mind in person! Can't wait to see it.
Jacob, I know you keep telling people to look at my thread, but it seams as though you are telling them an example of what not to do. Anyone that thinks you can make that kind of power with a 1.3 liter without risks is either very naive, or just too damn dumb to know better. ANY setup using ANY fuel has the potential to fail. That potential is greatly increased when you make those kind of numbers.
Sure, keep it simple.... and make much less power. It's pretty obvious power level has a direct correlation with reliability. I don't think this is a new concept.
John, everything is looking awesome man! That color combo is going to blow my mind in person! Can't wait to see it.
I am anxious to see the color combo when finished as well. One thing, among other things, my car was missing was painted components in the engine bay. So this will be one less thing on the list to do.
i am sorry if i upset you, josh.
i did refer to your thread as an example of "what not to do," but only because you're chasing big #s and you (were) depending on a 13b with high boost and aux injection. i simply don't agree with that. it's just a personal opinion.
i focused my efforts on keeping the power relatively low and having reliability at track events, which i think is a goal of brosio's as well. he asked for my opinion, so i responded with my opinion. please don't take offense.
i couldn't agree more.
i did refer to your thread as an example of "what not to do," but only because you're chasing big #s and you (were) depending on a 13b with high boost and aux injection. i simply don't agree with that. it's just a personal opinion.
i focused my efforts on keeping the power relatively low and having reliability at track events, which i think is a goal of brosio's as well. he asked for my opinion, so i responded with my opinion. please don't take offense.
i couldn't agree more.
Shhhh, that was supposed to be a secret. But I do have a real nice alternator planned for this car. It is gonna be sexy.
No, I will have an electric driven water pump.