Bewtew--- shady 20B Disaster
12-10-10, 10:54 PM
#1
Bewtew--- shady 20B Disaster
So here's a little background on my self. I'm a laid back kind of person, and I often find myself being taken advantage of. But this time I just can't let it go and I believe that this forum deserves to know what has happened.
Recently I purchased Bewtew22's "fully balanced 20B rotating assembly," off him. The deal was this:
I pay him 2300 bucks for the rotating assembly and Trade him my Tein Flex Coilovers for the ported and dowel pinned Rotor housings. He would take care of shipping for parts to me. And I would take care of shipping him my coilovers.
My coilovers were in excellent shape. No leaks, and even cosmetically they looked great. 9/10 condition easily. I paid a total of about 120 bucks to ship my coilovers to Carlo's with FULL COVERAGE insurance, insured for 1200 dollars.
I sent him my coilovers and when he recieved them he would ship me the rotating assembly and housings together.
When I recieved the rotating assembly it was packaged like so:
which looked like this on the inside.. moments after opening. But there was an equal same pice of bubble wrap as you see under the rotors/stat gears on top as well. But nothing to protect them from getting damaged.
you could literally move that soggy piece of cardboard with a pencil and see rotor
Damage one pinched apex seal groove
So here comes the bad part.
The first thing I thought when I saw these damages in the pictures below was from detonation... I quickly discerned that because I figured the guy I had bought them from was stand up etc. But the more and more I thought about it...theres almost no way such damage could occure from another rotor in that little of space, ...unless they were dropped from very high or recieved blunt trauma. Plus any sharp edge would have left a gouge or a damaged edge or another mark on the edge of impact.. and there were none so my conclusion is that these rotors were poorly packaged ON PURPOSE because the seller Carlos aka Bewtew22 knew that they were worthless and wouldn't be able to be sold otherwise. But by packing them poorly...he could blame the damages on UPS. NONE of his parts were insured. And When i instantly contacted him he blew off the rotors stating that they were the least of his concerns because the e-shaft was the most expensive part and I shouldn't be worried about the rotors because they were much more affordable than an e-shaft. By the way...the E-shaft was packaged very well with bubble wrap and pop-corn.
these pictures below are of the damages cause by detonation.
The rotor housings were in good condition.. But they did not have exhaust sleeves in them. No where in the post does it say anything about not having them, or them being removed etc. Although this may be my slight prob for not being more diligent...it's still shady and wrong.
When I talked to him the day of delivery I was already planning on purchasing the other half of the motor from him (uim/lim/alt/engine accessories etc). But I decided not to because of the recent event. I asked him if he had gotten insurance on it and he had told me that he couldn't afford to pay for it because it was too expensive already. But to fill everyone in... Insurance at UPS is 2 dollars for every hundred or 1 dollar for every 2 hundred. So either way if he wanted to insure everything he had given me for up to 2500 dollars it would have cost less than 45 bucks....which is nothing in the grand scheme of these parts after balancing etc.
His first response was to give me the money back then when I aggreed he immediately told me he had spent the money and it was already gone. So what could he do to get me to keep the parts and him keep the 2500. I told him I wanted the rest of the motor for free. He said he would give it to me for 100 bucks but I would have to pay for shipping. At this point I was really pissed but I figured it was better than nothing, so I had UPS call me, Bewtew22 dropped off the remaning parts of the 20b and I paid for shipping. I asked him to make sure everything was there and not to forget anything...like all the motor accessories such as ium/lim/alt etc. I recieved a lot of it. But there was no alternator. And when I asked about it, he simply replied. "I sold it a long time ago, I gave you everything I had left."
Now i'm not anyong to judge him as a person so all I can do is judge the guy by my interactions with him but this whole deal makes me cringe..and everything that was done just made me regret it even more. If I could go back I would. I wouldn't have to look for more coilovers and i'd have a build 13B block sitting in my car ready to fire. My decision since has been to stay with the 13b for financial reasons, but if this transaction would've gone how it was supposed to... I honestly believe I would have stayed with my 20B build.
The reason I bought the parts was to go 20B with my 3rd gen. at 2300 bucks...it was a good price for the work done to the rotating assembly and parts included, and the trade was a good deal as well. My tein flex coilovers in excellent condition for his 3 exhaust ported and dowel pinned 20B housings. Once the rotors were damaged it was no longer a good deal, and the only reason I purchased the parts was because of the work done to the rotating assembly. So that leaves me to the conclusion. The only way for him to make up for this absolute disaster would be for him to paypal me 600 dollars as a gift via paypal......which I think is perfectly fair concerning the fact that I have 525 dollars worth of useless rotors and i'm out the cost to get the whole assembly balanced. I.... in no way think he will fess up and repay me for the the parts that were no doubt trash before they left his gorage........so i'm not expecting anything. But I would like people to know what happened to me and to take caution when dealing with this guy when buying any parts from him.
p.s. I have all the rotors in their original packeging sitting in my gorage so if anyone would like to see more detonation damage i can snap some quick pictures.
Recently I purchased Bewtew22's "fully balanced 20B rotating assembly," off him. The deal was this:
I pay him 2300 bucks for the rotating assembly and Trade him my Tein Flex Coilovers for the ported and dowel pinned Rotor housings. He would take care of shipping for parts to me. And I would take care of shipping him my coilovers.
My coilovers were in excellent shape. No leaks, and even cosmetically they looked great. 9/10 condition easily. I paid a total of about 120 bucks to ship my coilovers to Carlo's with FULL COVERAGE insurance, insured for 1200 dollars.
I sent him my coilovers and when he recieved them he would ship me the rotating assembly and housings together.
When I recieved the rotating assembly it was packaged like so:
which looked like this on the inside.. moments after opening. But there was an equal same pice of bubble wrap as you see under the rotors/stat gears on top as well. But nothing to protect them from getting damaged.
you could literally move that soggy piece of cardboard with a pencil and see rotor
Damage one pinched apex seal groove
So here comes the bad part.
The first thing I thought when I saw these damages in the pictures below was from detonation... I quickly discerned that because I figured the guy I had bought them from was stand up etc. But the more and more I thought about it...theres almost no way such damage could occure from another rotor in that little of space, ...unless they were dropped from very high or recieved blunt trauma. Plus any sharp edge would have left a gouge or a damaged edge or another mark on the edge of impact.. and there were none so my conclusion is that these rotors were poorly packaged ON PURPOSE because the seller Carlos aka Bewtew22 knew that they were worthless and wouldn't be able to be sold otherwise. But by packing them poorly...he could blame the damages on UPS. NONE of his parts were insured. And When i instantly contacted him he blew off the rotors stating that they were the least of his concerns because the e-shaft was the most expensive part and I shouldn't be worried about the rotors because they were much more affordable than an e-shaft. By the way...the E-shaft was packaged very well with bubble wrap and pop-corn.
these pictures below are of the damages cause by detonation.
The rotor housings were in good condition.. But they did not have exhaust sleeves in them. No where in the post does it say anything about not having them, or them being removed etc. Although this may be my slight prob for not being more diligent...it's still shady and wrong.
When I talked to him the day of delivery I was already planning on purchasing the other half of the motor from him (uim/lim/alt/engine accessories etc). But I decided not to because of the recent event. I asked him if he had gotten insurance on it and he had told me that he couldn't afford to pay for it because it was too expensive already. But to fill everyone in... Insurance at UPS is 2 dollars for every hundred or 1 dollar for every 2 hundred. So either way if he wanted to insure everything he had given me for up to 2500 dollars it would have cost less than 45 bucks....which is nothing in the grand scheme of these parts after balancing etc.
His first response was to give me the money back then when I aggreed he immediately told me he had spent the money and it was already gone. So what could he do to get me to keep the parts and him keep the 2500. I told him I wanted the rest of the motor for free. He said he would give it to me for 100 bucks but I would have to pay for shipping. At this point I was really pissed but I figured it was better than nothing, so I had UPS call me, Bewtew22 dropped off the remaning parts of the 20b and I paid for shipping. I asked him to make sure everything was there and not to forget anything...like all the motor accessories such as ium/lim/alt etc. I recieved a lot of it. But there was no alternator. And when I asked about it, he simply replied. "I sold it a long time ago, I gave you everything I had left."
Now i'm not anyong to judge him as a person so all I can do is judge the guy by my interactions with him but this whole deal makes me cringe..and everything that was done just made me regret it even more. If I could go back I would. I wouldn't have to look for more coilovers and i'd have a build 13B block sitting in my car ready to fire. My decision since has been to stay with the 13b for financial reasons, but if this transaction would've gone how it was supposed to... I honestly believe I would have stayed with my 20B build.
The reason I bought the parts was to go 20B with my 3rd gen. at 2300 bucks...it was a good price for the work done to the rotating assembly and parts included, and the trade was a good deal as well. My tein flex coilovers in excellent condition for his 3 exhaust ported and dowel pinned 20B housings. Once the rotors were damaged it was no longer a good deal, and the only reason I purchased the parts was because of the work done to the rotating assembly. So that leaves me to the conclusion. The only way for him to make up for this absolute disaster would be for him to paypal me 600 dollars as a gift via paypal......which I think is perfectly fair concerning the fact that I have 525 dollars worth of useless rotors and i'm out the cost to get the whole assembly balanced. I.... in no way think he will fess up and repay me for the the parts that were no doubt trash before they left his gorage........so i'm not expecting anything. But I would like people to know what happened to me and to take caution when dealing with this guy when buying any parts from him.
p.s. I have all the rotors in their original packeging sitting in my gorage so if anyone would like to see more detonation damage i can snap some quick pictures.
12-11-10, 07:02 AM
#6
Wow man, I'm really sorry to hear that. Really pisses me off when someone gets cheated like that. I received a pair of 20b cosmo turbos with exhaust manifold in the spring that weren't packed very well. There were holes in the box, the turbos could move a bit, etc. To the seller's credit, he felt that the turbos would crush any packing materials with inertia alone. Fortunately, he was really reasonable about it and there was no damage to them. They spun freely and had only a tiny bit of front to back shaft play.
Aside from the packaging, my only gripe was that he didn't tell me they had been non-sequential modded. Plus, my main turbos were missing a couple of the oil/coolant lines and the sequential cover plate, which this set just happened to have.
I bought them mostly to get an original Cosmo downpipe and the turbos were going to be the workbench set anyway. Having an extra set on the bench is worth a TON to me just to not have to pull them off the engine every time you want to play around with designing something new. All in all, $65 well spent.
Fortunately for you, 20b rotors aren't unobtanium. They're regular S5T2/FD parts, only the front and rear counterweight are different. Logan at Defined Autoworks could probably hook you up on a set, including balancing, for a good price if you send him the e-shaft and counterweights. I'm not sure about this, but there MIGHT be a chance he could salvage your rotors too. PM him with a link to the pics.
Cheap packing=plastic grocery bags and newspapers
For something this heavy and valuable, I'd reinforce the bottom with a few extra layers of cardboard, then cram bags/newspaper in every possible nook and cranny to the point where the box is slightly overflowing. Put another few pieces of reinforcement on top and tape it shut. Do a full loop or 3 around the circumference where the flaps meet so they won't pop open. And for added security, once around the other way too.
It's probably not much consolation, but you might be better off swapping over to a Taurus alternator in the long run. The Cosmo alternators are rated for the same 100 amps as the FD ones. Plus, taurus alts are cheap, in excessive supply in all 50 states and will readily fit under a FC NA hood even when mounted to a 20b. Not sure about the FD stock hood, but it'd probably work there too.
Aside from the packaging, my only gripe was that he didn't tell me they had been non-sequential modded. Plus, my main turbos were missing a couple of the oil/coolant lines and the sequential cover plate, which this set just happened to have.
I bought them mostly to get an original Cosmo downpipe and the turbos were going to be the workbench set anyway. Having an extra set on the bench is worth a TON to me just to not have to pull them off the engine every time you want to play around with designing something new. All in all, $65 well spent.
Fortunately for you, 20b rotors aren't unobtanium. They're regular S5T2/FD parts, only the front and rear counterweight are different. Logan at Defined Autoworks could probably hook you up on a set, including balancing, for a good price if you send him the e-shaft and counterweights. I'm not sure about this, but there MIGHT be a chance he could salvage your rotors too. PM him with a link to the pics.
Cheap packing=plastic grocery bags and newspapers
For something this heavy and valuable, I'd reinforce the bottom with a few extra layers of cardboard, then cram bags/newspaper in every possible nook and cranny to the point where the box is slightly overflowing. Put another few pieces of reinforcement on top and tape it shut. Do a full loop or 3 around the circumference where the flaps meet so they won't pop open. And for added security, once around the other way too.
It's probably not much consolation, but you might be better off swapping over to a Taurus alternator in the long run. The Cosmo alternators are rated for the same 100 amps as the FD ones. Plus, taurus alts are cheap, in excessive supply in all 50 states and will readily fit under a FC NA hood even when mounted to a 20b. Not sure about the FD stock hood, but it'd probably work there too.
12-11-10, 05:42 PM
#7
there's not alot you can do with the rotors, caved in compression faces are unrepairable. if it was just the seal slots that were pinched they may be salvaged with some metal working and 3mm milling. usually caved in rotors happens due to excessive oil temps in conjunction with a less than disastrous detonation cycle.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-11-10 at 05:45 PM.
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12-11-10, 11:08 PM
#10
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WOW.. Had a similar situation like yours, 9k $$ 3 rotor assembly packed a bit better but not good enough, shipped from a so called one of the best rotary builders ... JOKE...!! All damaged in the shipping...
Long story short.. did a charge back... Got my money back...
If you paid with paypal by credit card, don't even waste your time with them(paypal) send that garbage back to him.. Keep a record for your credit card company, that you send back the merchandise. Do a charge back...They CCC will issue your money back..
Lesson learned get you money back....
Long story short.. did a charge back... Got my money back...
If you paid with paypal by credit card, don't even waste your time with them(paypal) send that garbage back to him.. Keep a record for your credit card company, that you send back the merchandise. Do a charge back...They CCC will issue your money back..
Lesson learned get you money back....
12-12-10, 10:33 AM
#14
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
I'm curious as to why Bewtew (carlos?) hasn't posted up his side of the story..... can his local friends let him know about this thread if he isn't already around?
thanks.
thanks.
12-12-10, 11:08 AM
#16
i figured that from your last thread, but have you tried contacting your bank? Given all of today's internet transactions ive heard of some banks that actually have put policies in place that protect their customers in cases like this.
On another note Im glad more people are using cc's for their internet transactions and are actually spreading the word. You would think it be common knowledge but for some reason it isn't as many still use their bank.
On another note Im glad more people are using cc's for their internet transactions and are actually spreading the word. You would think it be common knowledge but for some reason it isn't as many still use their bank.
12-12-10, 12:32 PM
#17
Wow Aaron...
i would like to start by saying that I'm a very honest guy and i don't do things to hurt others.
i shipped everything via UPS and it's 100% my fault that i didnt insured the packages. he called me about a wk later when he received the packages telling me that the rotors got dmg and i told him that i was going to contact ups to see what they could do..since i didnt insure the packages there was nothing they could do.
a few days before all this went down he agree to buy the rest of the parts for $900 i told him to give me $200 for the rest of the parts to cover for the parts that got damaged.
he said i'll give you $100 and i'll take care of the shipping..and i agreed. he sent me $100 and took everything to ups. he calls me asking me how much should he insure the parts for i said i would do 2k just in case.. he also texted me saying "hey this has been a mess but i'm glad you took cared of it"
i never said "sorry for your bad luck man" or "u got the stuff is your problem deal with it"
i don't understand why you start a thread trashing me 2-3wks after you received the rest of the parts and after i took cared of the entire situation
i would like to start by saying that I'm a very honest guy and i don't do things to hurt others.
i shipped everything via UPS and it's 100% my fault that i didnt insured the packages. he called me about a wk later when he received the packages telling me that the rotors got dmg and i told him that i was going to contact ups to see what they could do..since i didnt insure the packages there was nothing they could do.
a few days before all this went down he agree to buy the rest of the parts for $900 i told him to give me $200 for the rest of the parts to cover for the parts that got damaged.
he said i'll give you $100 and i'll take care of the shipping..and i agreed. he sent me $100 and took everything to ups. he calls me asking me how much should he insure the parts for i said i would do 2k just in case.. he also texted me saying "hey this has been a mess but i'm glad you took cared of it"
i never said "sorry for your bad luck man" or "u got the stuff is your problem deal with it"
i don't understand why you start a thread trashing me 2-3wks after you received the rest of the parts and after i took cared of the entire situation
12-12-10, 01:23 PM
#18
You didn't take care of the situation though. Taking care of the situation would be giving me my full refund back, and the coilovers. That would have been the right thing to do. I took the second half of the motor because if I hadn't...i'd be left with nothing. Anyone in my position would have done at least that.
I started the thread 2-3 weeks later because it takes time to get things via shipping. And after all is said and done, the whole transaction was terrible.
My questions is why did you sell me a bunch of trashed rotors? I've showed the pictures to more than a few experienced rotary mechanics and they've all said those damages are from detonation. NOT poor shipping. And why would the eccentric shaft be packaged so well (bubble wrap and popcorn) and the rotors thrown in a box with nothing? It's just clearly fraud, simple as that.
I started the thread 2-3 weeks later because it takes time to get things via shipping. And after all is said and done, the whole transaction was terrible.
My questions is why did you sell me a bunch of trashed rotors? I've showed the pictures to more than a few experienced rotary mechanics and they've all said those damages are from detonation. NOT poor shipping. And why would the eccentric shaft be packaged so well (bubble wrap and popcorn) and the rotors thrown in a box with nothing? It's just clearly fraud, simple as that.
12-12-10, 03:26 PM
#19
I have sold a lot of parts on here and i try to be as detail as possible about the condition of the parts if the parts were dmg i would of told you before you bought them or simply not sell them.
i can't control what UPS does or how they handle their packages..
i spent $170 shipping u the Assembly and housings and u paid $120 to send me the coilovers that adds up to $290 in shipping wasted not to mention the paypal fee's.
i told you that i would either:
A)send you two rotors to replace the ones that got dmg and i would take care of the balancing.
b)give you a major discount on the rest off the stuff to take care of the problem.
i gave you a $800 discount on the other parts that you were going to pay $900 initially to cover for the 2 dmg rotor and the balancing and YOU AGREED, sent me the $100 and even thank me for taking care of the situation and 2-3wks after you received the rest of the stuff you want to change your mind and start a thread? you are out of your mind kid.
i can't control what UPS does or how they handle their packages..
i spent $170 shipping u the Assembly and housings and u paid $120 to send me the coilovers that adds up to $290 in shipping wasted not to mention the paypal fee's.
i told you that i would either:
A)send you two rotors to replace the ones that got dmg and i would take care of the balancing.
b)give you a major discount on the rest off the stuff to take care of the problem.
i gave you a $800 discount on the other parts that you were going to pay $900 initially to cover for the 2 dmg rotor and the balancing and YOU AGREED, sent me the $100 and even thank me for taking care of the situation and 2-3wks after you received the rest of the stuff you want to change your mind and start a thread? you are out of your mind kid.
12-12-10, 05:19 PM
#22
Thats a complete lie. When I called you to discuss this you told me you couldn't afford to have the assembly balanced again. You said you could send me 2 rotors but you specifically said you wouldn't be able to pay for balancing because you couldn't afford it.
And you still havn't explained the dents from detonation on the rotor faces...are avoiding it?
12-12-10, 08:57 PM
#23
Thats a complete lie. When I called you to discuss this you told me you couldn't afford to have the assembly balanced again. You said you could send me 2 rotors but you specifically said you wouldn't be able to pay for balancing because you couldn't afford it.
And you still havn't explained the dents from detonation on the rotor faces...are avoiding it?
and why the hell did u agree to take the rest of the stuff and send me $100 and cover the shipping and on top of that you thank me appreciating me taking care of the issue and now this? i gave you a $800 discount to cover the dmg rotors and balancing what else do you want dude?
12-12-10, 09:30 PM
#24
So you did or did not wrap the rotors? Manny is making it seem like you didn't wrap/package them at all and that is why they go damaged.
Either way, I can vouch for both of you. I have met Carlos in person several times, he is an a+ and stand up guy. Whatever the problem is I am sure he will take care of it for you.
Either way, I can vouch for both of you. I have met Carlos in person several times, he is an a+ and stand up guy. Whatever the problem is I am sure he will take care of it for you.
