Turbo blown performance is all i have to say warning warning warning
10-07-10, 11:35 AM
#51
what ever this guy said on this post, dont believe it or maybe you should if you like blown engines and lying.
lol you inspected all my spacers and you found nothing wrong with anything. i dont know how to tune nor can i ever try because i dont know what im doing with that. Elliot your not the tuner i dont know how you got 12 afr. cracked spark plug holes is there but not from the spark plugs it was getting way to hot on that engine from the bearings were crapped. i asked elliot about the engine getting way hot, and he said oh thats normal on a bridgeported engine dont worry about it the idle at 2k rpms is going to get really hot even when i explained that it was hot while cruising.
lol you inspected all my spacers and you found nothing wrong with anything. i dont know how to tune nor can i ever try because i dont know what im doing with that. Elliot your not the tuner i dont know how you got 12 afr. cracked spark plug holes is there but not from the spark plugs it was getting way to hot on that engine from the bearings were crapped. i asked elliot about the engine getting way hot, and he said oh thats normal on a bridgeported engine dont worry about it the idle at 2k rpms is going to get really hot even when i explained that it was hot while cruising.
Sorry I have the text messages you sent me saying how you tuned it, you later told me someone else was in the ecu in person. You are the only one lying here.
You asked me about HOT oil temps at idle, I asked what the idle speed was. You said 2000. If the idle is that hot without fans on your oil cooler in a 100+ degree ambient temps with a single oil cooler it will be hot. No way around it. I also told you to come by for us to check it out and do an oil change, you never did.
10-07-10, 11:42 AM
#52
well, elliott, first off, I didnt reopen this thread. If you do not know something, it is better to not speak.
Second, he brings up a good point.....you say that 9's are a mistake, and yet you installed them in his engine?
Third, your own website says that the coating penetrates the metal and that the coatings last indefinitely....and while I dont expect the coating to look like brand new, I dont expect the entire surface to be stripped of a coating that "is impossible to extract from the metal", as your website says.
--"Impossible to extract from the surface"
--"will last indefinitely"
And yet, after a short amount of time the entire coating is gone?
Then, there is the issue of the extreme heat he was finding. If he told you that, and you said it was normal with a BP, AND WITH A COATED MOTOR THAT IS SUPPOSED TO "DRAMATICALLY REDUCE HEAT", something isnt right.
And to top it all off, there is still the issue of the BP, no porting work should ever look like that.
Second, he brings up a good point.....you say that 9's are a mistake, and yet you installed them in his engine?
Third, your own website says that the coating penetrates the metal and that the coatings last indefinitely....and while I dont expect the coating to look like brand new, I dont expect the entire surface to be stripped of a coating that "is impossible to extract from the metal", as your website says.
--"Impossible to extract from the surface"
--"will last indefinitely"
And yet, after a short amount of time the entire coating is gone?
Then, there is the issue of the extreme heat he was finding. If he told you that, and you said it was normal with a BP, AND WITH A COATED MOTOR THAT IS SUPPOSED TO "DRAMATICALLY REDUCE HEAT", something isnt right.
And to top it all off, there is still the issue of the BP, no porting work should ever look like that.
You cannot install anything higher in heat range than 9s for break-in, they will foul very quickly without load. Spark plugs need to be changed after break in.You guys are arguing a bunch of technical points you don't understand. The coatings are not gone on the plates, if you look close you can see it impregnated in all the pours, it even feels vastly different. Again I have attached another photo.
I do not polish the ports to a shiny finish, doesn't do anything in my experience. I have taken engines apart, and changed nothing but making the ports gorgeous and it did absolutely nothing. This is the engine in question.
10-07-10, 11:50 AM
#53
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Yes you are correct. Once I got to inspect them a day after seeing the engine initially I saw there was nothing wrong. It wasn't mentioned after that. It was only mentioned originally when you came by without the front spacer parts
Sorry I have the text messages you sent me saying how you tuned it, you later told me someone else was in the ecu in person. You are the only one lying here.
You asked me about HOT oil temps at idle, I asked what the idle speed was. You said 2000. If the idle is that hot without fans on your oil cooler in a 100+ degree ambient temps with a single oil cooler it will be hot. No way around it. I also told you to come by for us to check it out and do an oil change, you never did.
Sorry I have the text messages you sent me saying how you tuned it, you later told me someone else was in the ecu in person. You are the only one lying here.
You asked me about HOT oil temps at idle, I asked what the idle speed was. You said 2000. If the idle is that hot without fans on your oil cooler in a 100+ degree ambient temps with a single oil cooler it will be hot. No way around it. I also told you to come by for us to check it out and do an oil change, you never did.
10-07-10, 12:30 PM
#54
Regardless of who is right here, I see the following:
The housings appear to have sone sort of coating. I am looking at the pictures on a blackberry but they look like cermet coated housings I have used in the past. The coating will not look as it bid before assembly after the motor is run.It is supposed to act as a thermal barrier, has self-lubribating properities, but takes longer to break it.
While I spend some time polishing up ports to make them more visualy asthtec, I have also found is has zero performance benefit in a turbo rotary. The turbo creates so much turbulance that smooth ports make no difference as they do in a naturally aspirated car.
The cracks around the spark plug holes are from 2 much heat. Most likely the afrs were too lean and the car was driven hard.
Nothing wrong with using lower compression rotors as long as the customer is ok with it.I do prefer to use high compression rotors and adjust the tuning accordingly.
We use a maximum of 9's for break-in. Colder plugs will foul too quickly. Plugs must be changed to the appropriate type prior to tuning.
From the condition of the bearings, they were either worn and re-used in the build or the front bolt was removed and the spacer fell. We have seen it happen countless times. Running the motor like that will destroy it.
A single stock oil cooler is not sufficient on a car with these projected horsepower goals. We like to run 2 mocals and install fans. When stationary, an oil cooler withought a fan does almost nothing. At the very minimum upgrade to R1 coolers. What kind of oil was run? How ofter was it changed?
$2000 is not bad for an auto-to manual swap. To do it right and retain all the factory functions it takes work. I quoted a customer $1000 once and later bit my tongue but stuck to the labor price.
It sounds to me that either the builder was dishonest, the customer had unauthorized/inexperienced individuals work on the car outside of Turblown, or the customer despite their best intentions does not understand the car. We have dealt with this many times and instead of giving options it is best to say "if this is the goal you have, its going to require this amount of money and these parts". Regardless, there is obviously missing information here. Hope you guys resolve this.
The housings appear to have sone sort of coating. I am looking at the pictures on a blackberry but they look like cermet coated housings I have used in the past. The coating will not look as it bid before assembly after the motor is run.It is supposed to act as a thermal barrier, has self-lubribating properities, but takes longer to break it.
While I spend some time polishing up ports to make them more visualy asthtec, I have also found is has zero performance benefit in a turbo rotary. The turbo creates so much turbulance that smooth ports make no difference as they do in a naturally aspirated car.
The cracks around the spark plug holes are from 2 much heat. Most likely the afrs were too lean and the car was driven hard.
Nothing wrong with using lower compression rotors as long as the customer is ok with it.I do prefer to use high compression rotors and adjust the tuning accordingly.
We use a maximum of 9's for break-in. Colder plugs will foul too quickly. Plugs must be changed to the appropriate type prior to tuning.
From the condition of the bearings, they were either worn and re-used in the build or the front bolt was removed and the spacer fell. We have seen it happen countless times. Running the motor like that will destroy it.
A single stock oil cooler is not sufficient on a car with these projected horsepower goals. We like to run 2 mocals and install fans. When stationary, an oil cooler withought a fan does almost nothing. At the very minimum upgrade to R1 coolers. What kind of oil was run? How ofter was it changed?
$2000 is not bad for an auto-to manual swap. To do it right and retain all the factory functions it takes work. I quoted a customer $1000 once and later bit my tongue but stuck to the labor price.
It sounds to me that either the builder was dishonest, the customer had unauthorized/inexperienced individuals work on the car outside of Turblown, or the customer despite their best intentions does not understand the car. We have dealt with this many times and instead of giving options it is best to say "if this is the goal you have, its going to require this amount of money and these parts". Regardless, there is obviously missing information here. Hope you guys resolve this.
10-07-10, 06:05 PM
#55
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elliot knows i can take these engines apart i have done it before. 2k in labor to do a manual swap? i did it in 8 hours and everything is beautiful and all the gauges work fine the auto harness hooks up just the same as a manual the only prob is the rear lights. and there you have it, it looks like the bearings are used. i let elliot inspect all the front engine parts and didnt find anything wrong whatsoever.
10-07-10, 11:05 PM
#56
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Well I know this isn't much but I would back up amunoz anytime, i've known him for over 4 year's now.
Way back when we were both Porsche 944 owner's before either of us had an Rx-7. I was actually the one that convinced him to get an Rx-7 when he got tired of his 944.
Anyways, just trying to help out a friend whom I myself would trust over a shady business like Turblown. We have been messaging back and forth for the past few weeks talking about the issue's he's been having with Elliot at Turblown and his FD, and now with the teardown and picture's as proof most of my assumption's about what was wrong with his car are proven.
Also, you need to get some picture's of the front end of your FD on here for everyone to see.
Good luck and as the moderator's can see there is definately something not right with Turblown.
Way back when we were both Porsche 944 owner's before either of us had an Rx-7. I was actually the one that convinced him to get an Rx-7 when he got tired of his 944.
Anyways, just trying to help out a friend whom I myself would trust over a shady business like Turblown. We have been messaging back and forth for the past few weeks talking about the issue's he's been having with Elliot at Turblown and his FD, and now with the teardown and picture's as proof most of my assumption's about what was wrong with his car are proven.
Also, you need to get some picture's of the front end of your FD on here for everyone to see.
Good luck and as the moderator's can see there is definately something not right with Turblown.
10-08-10, 12:20 AM
#57
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You cannot install anything higher in heat range than 9s for break-in, they will foul very quickly without load. Spark plugs need to be changed after break in.You guys are arguing a bunch of technical points you don't understand. The coatings are not gone on the plates, if you look close you can see it impregnated in all the pours, it even feels vastly different. Again I have attached another photo.
I do not polish the ports to a shiny finish, doesn't do anything in my experience. I have taken engines apart, and changed nothing but making the ports gorgeous and it did absolutely nothing. This is the engine in question.
I do not polish the ports to a shiny finish, doesn't do anything in my experience. I have taken engines apart, and changed nothing but making the ports gorgeous and it did absolutely nothing. This is the engine in question.
in this same thread, you told us on October 2 that the only parts on this engine that were coated were the bearings and irons. NOW, however, you show us pics of rotor housings and say "look, the coating is still there". Rotor housings are not irons.....and irons are not rotor housings. And to top it all off, no one said that the ports should be all shiny and pretty...but we DO expect that the port work will be clean. The port job on the irons does not look professional at all.
10-08-10, 12:40 AM
#58
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Well I know this isn't much but I would back up amunoz anytime, i've known him for over 4 year's now.
Way back when we were both Porsche 944 owner's before either of us had an Rx-7. I was actually the one that convinced him to get an Rx-7 when he got tired of his 944.
Anyways, just trying to help out a friend whom I myself would trust over a shady business like Turblown. We have been messaging back and forth for the past few weeks talking about the issue's he's been having with Elliot at Turblown and his FD, and now with the teardown and picture's as proof most of my assumption's about what was wrong with his car are proven.
Also, you need to get some picture's of the front end of your FD on here for everyone to see.
Good luck and as the moderator's can see there is definately something not right with Turblown.
Way back when we were both Porsche 944 owner's before either of us had an Rx-7. I was actually the one that convinced him to get an Rx-7 when he got tired of his 944.
Anyways, just trying to help out a friend whom I myself would trust over a shady business like Turblown. We have been messaging back and forth for the past few weeks talking about the issue's he's been having with Elliot at Turblown and his FD, and now with the teardown and picture's as proof most of my assumption's about what was wrong with his car are proven.
Also, you need to get some picture's of the front end of your FD on here for everyone to see.
Good luck and as the moderator's can see there is definately something not right with Turblown.
10-08-10, 12:52 AM
#59
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Bottom line is that if i had anything to hide i would not have given the engine back to elliot in exchange for parts. Although they are crap parts so its like we swapped crap for crap but anyways, im not worried because i knew the truth would be coming out. He was caught in a lie with the moderator and that is just wrong. im out 4500 for the engine 3500 for the non functional blown twin turbo setup that was an experimental project behind my back. my car is pretty much totaled with the front frame that he cut so whatever my car is worth im out of, paint is destroyed, carbon fiber hood ruined 500 bucks, egt gauge ruined 170 bucks, my custom made auto tranny torque converter that elliot said it would work cost me 1000 bucks. and the list goes on and on 
Last edited by amunoz3; 10-08-10 at 12:58 AM. Reason: forgot to put details on the turbo kit
10-08-10, 02:15 PM
#60
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If this is such a long and dragging out issue - such as it has been, I would say do your part to further shy customers away from the shop and deal with this the proper way:
Litigation.
As long as all of your facts are cut and dry and verifiable in black and white, that's all there is to it.
Sue the shop, naming those parties at fault as those in primary command to answer FOR the shop, make the amount for a new engine with the work done that you originally went to them to have done, and tack on whatever else.
I understand this situation is basically a one side versus the other, and who is actually correct (since I'm not personally familiar with EITHER party) is up for debate.
I certainly don't fault you you for taking the position that you have, but think that it's dragged out, long enough and you should progress on to recouping expense.
On my end I'll say this: Sue his *** and get it over with.
Litigation.
As long as all of your facts are cut and dry and verifiable in black and white, that's all there is to it.
Sue the shop, naming those parties at fault as those in primary command to answer FOR the shop, make the amount for a new engine with the work done that you originally went to them to have done, and tack on whatever else.
I understand this situation is basically a one side versus the other, and who is actually correct (since I'm not personally familiar with EITHER party) is up for debate.
I certainly don't fault you you for taking the position that you have, but think that it's dragged out, long enough and you should progress on to recouping expense.
On my end I'll say this: Sue his *** and get it over with.
10-08-10, 09:22 PM
#61
Turbo blown performance is all i have to say warning warning warning
Bottom line is that if i had anything to hide i would not have given the engine back to elliot in exchange for parts. Although they are crap parts so its like we swapped crap for crap but anyways, im not worried because i knew the truth would be coming out. He was caught in a lie with the moderator and that is just wrong. im out 4500 for the engine 3500 for the non functional blown twin turbo setup that was an experimental project behind my back. my car is pretty much totaled with the front frame that he cut so whatever my car is worth im out of, paint is destroyed, carbon fiber hood ruined 500 bucks, egt gauge ruined 170 bucks, my custom made auto tranny torque converter that elliot said it would work cost me 1000 bucks. and the list goes on and on
I'm in the same boat as you with $7,000
+plus the parts + rebuilt engine + labor Paid to License Mechanic.+More parts I need to get so I can put my car running in the way that supposed to be...keep spending for someone's fault is not funny.
I hope by the end of the year I have it complete it.
I really wish you get some type of agreement with him...... if the Vendor really wants to gets his reputation up....As a Vendor His business depend on customers not in friends as the shady/Fraud shops do (They do like to take advantaje in people don't know too much about cars specially in rotaries)
Good Luck for both of you so you can get an agreement....!
TENAZ
10-09-10, 03:19 AM
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I decided to put the used parts that elliot traded with me anyways. Some people who port need to be in ice sculpting contests because they seem they will be good at it.
10-09-10, 08:17 PM
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yea i know, i just wish atleast........ atleast........ he never would have cut my front frame of my car. car is totaled and worthless now. a 3rd gen ruined and it was not even crashed....... sad....
10-10-10, 03:28 AM
#67
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oh yes i am my buddy is letting me borrow his camera for good pics so they are well detailed. i am spending my whole day sunday on the car. getting pics and what not.
10-10-10, 03:34 PM
#68
You are skewing things again. I told you the second I handed you that housing I did port that housing, and that it needs to be cleaned up. You later complained on the phone, and I told you to bring it back and I would do it for you, and make it as pretty as you wanted. Then you said you wanted unported housing, I told you to come back the following day and pick out at set. I also told you I would polish the shaft for you. We don't owe you parts, you blew the engine, we aren't responsible for that. I was doing you a nice favor. How you can complain about parts you aren't owed is beyond me. Again that port can be cleaned up just fine.
10-10-10, 03:37 PM
#69
We never claimed that. However part of disassembling an engine is seeing other signs that caused the issue. For example the flywheel he put one, we almost never found out about that. It came up later. Who knows what else he did wrong externally.
10-10-10, 03:40 PM
#70
That is how you have to install the ETS front mount intercooler kit. You didn't want to spend the money on raising the stock location radiator upright. I am not positive since its been such a long time, but we usually make people aware of ANY chassis cutting as some people don't want it done. Again this intercooler setup was done a LONG time ago, over a year. You drove your car with this IC, and continued to come back for other upgrades at our shop. You are obviously trying to complain about things to add fuel to your fire.
10-10-10, 03:50 PM
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Andrew,
You are skewing things again. I told you the second I handed you that housing I did port that housing, and that it needs to be cleaned up. You later complained on the phone, and I told you to bring it back and I would do it for you, and make it as pretty as you wanted. Then you said you wanted unported housing, I told you to come back the following day and pick out at set. I also told you I would polish the shaft for you. We don't owe you parts, you blew the engine, we aren't responsible for that. I was doing you a nice favor. How you can complain about parts you aren't owed is beyond me. Again that port can be cleaned up just fine.
You are skewing things again. I told you the second I handed you that housing I did port that housing, and that it needs to be cleaned up. You later complained on the phone, and I told you to bring it back and I would do it for you, and make it as pretty as you wanted. Then you said you wanted unported housing, I told you to come back the following day and pick out at set. I also told you I would polish the shaft for you. We don't owe you parts, you blew the engine, we aren't responsible for that. I was doing you a nice favor. How you can complain about parts you aren't owed is beyond me. Again that port can be cleaned up just fine.
First off on this last engine, should have been completely free..... why?...... you blew my last motor driving the car and street tuning under your complete and total control....... you knew the engine wasnt built for high horsepower....... you knew the turbos were still not working right the way i expected em to be from before i handed you money for them....... you told me you were pushing the car past 25 lbs of boost, and i even told you not too thats way too much boost, STOCK FUEL LINES ARE YOU KIDDING ME?????
the way i see it is theres contracts for jobs still open and nothing has been done properly.
and stop saying that you would of fixed that porting job for me............. okay from this point on....... you are not looking at my car... working on my car....... working on my engines....... breathing next to my property..... what so ever.............. there. now please stop acting like you would help me.
Last edited by amunoz3; 10-10-10 at 04:20 PM. Reason: forgot to include something
10-10-10, 03:58 PM
#72
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its so funny how now people are opening up to me complaining about your leaking manifolds and secret charges. and how you look at maps for cars and dont touch em but still charge for them. i want to say who... but respect for those people is everything.
10-10-10, 04:09 PM
#73
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That is how you have to install the ETS front mount intercooler kit. You didn't want to spend the money on raising the stock location radiator upright. I am not positive since its been such a long time, but we usually make people aware of ANY chassis cutting as some people don't want it done. Again this intercooler setup was done a LONG time ago, over a year. You drove your car with this IC, and continued to come back for other upgrades at our shop. You are obviously trying to complain about things to add fuel to your fire.
you did not tell me about any chassis cutting at all.............period.....
you dissapeared from this thread for like 2 days where did you go? out of town again? or maybe coming up with something new to say?
ill give you fuel to your fire alright......... looks like we are going to have to visit the rx8 forums, lambo forums, ferrari forums.......
for what you did to me....... i hate you with a passion.
10-10-10, 07:17 PM
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I hardly think it is appropriate to say that he is "only adding fuel to the fire" when it comes to the structural integrity of his car. Apparently, you never told him that you would be cutting his frame, at least not to the extent that you did. I cannot think of a single good reason why anyone should do that without getting the full permission of the owner, after the owner is made aware of EXACTLY what you will be cutting and why.
I think it is time to see receipts for the work done and the labor charges on this car. If he really gave you $800 as a labor charge to install a radiator, I would be a bit concerned....I am not a shop, and yet I have installed radiators before in no time, on engine compartments that are tighter and more complex than an FD. How much did you actually charge him in labor for that, and how much more would it have been for you to do it raised upright?
I think it is time to see receipts for the work done and the labor charges on this car. If he really gave you $800 as a labor charge to install a radiator, I would be a bit concerned....I am not a shop, and yet I have installed radiators before in no time, on engine compartments that are tighter and more complex than an FD. How much did you actually charge him in labor for that, and how much more would it have been for you to do it raised upright?
10-10-10, 09:59 PM
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I hardly think it is appropriate to say that he is "only adding fuel to the fire" when it comes to the structural integrity of his car. Apparently, you never told him that you would be cutting his frame, at least not to the extent that you did. I cannot think of a single good reason why anyone should do that without getting the full permission of the owner, after the owner is made aware of EXACTLY what you will be cutting and why.
I think it is time to see receipts for the work done and the labor charges on this car. If he really gave you $800 as a labor charge to install a radiator, I would be a bit concerned....I am not a shop, and yet I have installed radiators before in no time, on engine compartments that are tighter and more complex than an FD. How much did you actually charge him in labor for that, and how much more would it have been for you to do it raised upright?
I think it is time to see receipts for the work done and the labor charges on this car. If he really gave you $800 as a labor charge to install a radiator, I would be a bit concerned....I am not a shop, and yet I have installed radiators before in no time, on engine compartments that are tighter and more complex than an FD. How much did you actually charge him in labor for that, and how much more would it have been for you to do it raised upright?
Elliot please be honest i did do that radiator for 800 bucks. dont lie.