I have noticed that on Howard's setup, he injected/sprayed the meth right before the elbow

I had an interesting thought.
if one where to spray right after the turbo, causing the meth to actually pass through the intercooler, would that subsequently cause the air going in between the IC/fins to be cooler/colder?

The IC SHOULD be cold in the same idea as someone with water injection, except on the inside, compared to outside

The only down side i see about this is having meth in your IC and pipes, but i assumed that since we are all going to be running around with 20psi it'd push it all out either way =P

i ask this because i have a FMIC, and was wondering if this would better my radiator, but i don't know if this would be something to worry about since meth is so cold already, and overheating would not be something that is significant

 

a reasonable question.

there are a couple of considerations w that idea.

meth is fuel. should you get a backfire you would shred your intercooler as well as all the piping. i have not had that problem as to backfires but if you, for example, have a bad apex seal you can get spitting back thru the motor. kaboom everywhere

secondly, and this is going to sound funny based on conventional rotary wisdom... i am not sure, running methanol being injected just before the elbow, that you actually want to cool the charge air anymore than the alcohol does.

my primary problem is getting my EGTs UP. i imagine that will happen to some degree when i lean it out a bit, advance the timing and boost. this is the methanol norm. i think scott was up to over 20 psi and his egts were like mine. real cold. ditto BDC.

further, methanol needs at least 54 degrees (f) to "flash." you won't get much action as to charge air cooling if you are running around in 40 degree weather and you have a really good IC. of course you being in Ca probably don't have the too cold out syndrome.

i really like my injector location.

howard coleman

 

hmm well at first i was thinking about a two stage set up, having one after the turbo, and one before the elbow, in fear of this happening, having the 1st stage, post turbo to spray less/smaller injector, less meth, less likelyhood of the backfire

either way having the meth after the elbow would cause the same thing, it'd blow your elbow, throttle body, UIM, BOV, and other such, if you have a v-mount or SMIC wouldn't you have a higher risk that of those things being destroyed in a blown apex and backfire? since it is so much closer

and for the meth needing 54F to flash, could that be solved with running hotter spark plugs?

i'm not bashing your location, just curious of other available locations.
I was thinking of having a custom 3rd rail, sitting in between the block, and the UIM, there would be 4 available injectors to be added. possibly 2 for fuel, and 2 for meth. so its more of a direct injection, opposed to the elbow, but it would not be as well mixed meth:air

 

still waiting for you to finish the injectant properties thead, but would meth be corosive to the thin metal of an intercooler over time?

 

my location is not "the same thing" as pre IC as it won't blow up the intercooler.

yes, it would impact the thick elbow and UIM/LIM. i doubt there'd be that much damage whereas if the intercooler blew with all it's thin metal and surface to volume it would be a major mess.

part of the flashing removes btus and part aids distribution. you want the flash in the UIM as the meth is delivered normally by a pulsed pump. the back and forth of the induction column (intake port opening and closing and reversion) in the runners mixes the meth evenly. even distribution is the sole reason i feel that injecting near the LIM is not as good as a bit upstream. LIM injection will end up w less even distribution using a pulsed pump.

(you do make this point.)

i feel the trade-off between closer to port V better mixing is a losing trade.

finally as slo points out methanol is highly corrosive to aluminum. the entire IC design objective is to expose a flow to as much cooling surface area as possible. you couldn't design a more perfect structure to promote corrosion than an IC.

after moving from theory to reality i conclude that methanol performs so well fixtured in the traditional manner that i should best spend my time just burning/tuning it. i am quite sure fully tuned out at over 600 rwhp i will still be struggling to get higher egts. i really don't need to cool things off any further.

we are absolutely talking new paradigm here and by the end of 07 the rotary world will look alot different.

slo.. i have 25 pages for my properties thread and i need to edit it into a rational presentation

howard coleman

 

i understand that meth is corrosive, but under the amount of pressure, and movement would it be a factor? is it that corrosive that its precense will damage the IC,

if it is, then how about the throttle body? or if you have a BOV on the elbow? meth would flow out of it when it releases the pressure no?

if the BOV does release the pressure, then wouldn't you have meth where the BOV vents?

correct me if i'm wrong

 

I'm not the best person to be explaining this, but its not the meth thats melting the aluminum. Aluminum when exposed to air very quickly forms a thin oxide layer. This aluminum oxide protects the aluminum beneath from corosion. Meth and other alcohol eats thru the oxide layer exposing the raw aluminum to air again every time you use it. over time it will pit and corode. An intercooler as howard pointed out is about the ideal enviroment for creating corosion. Maximimum surface area, with minimum thickness eposed to costantly to pressure and of course air.

 

then there is the issue of condensation and the ribbing of the charge across the IC core, i would imagine even if it were completely atomized going into the IC core it would begin to drag across the surface in the core and begin to solidify into droplets which will reduce the efficiency of the system.