Hello everybody,

I'm currently putting my setup together and needed some advise what to do with fueling and turbo.. Hope you have the time to read it through..

First up.. i'm shooting for 450-500hp on stock port and pump gass, engine has been rebuild. I only use the car on the streets but occasionally want to track it. Would like to see 1 bar at around 3500 rpm not later then 4k rpm

Setup so far:
- Stockport Engine
- Adaptronic PnP select ECU
- AEM Smart coils w/ MSD superconductor wires
- Walbro 450LPH pump(?)
- ID injectors pri/sec (?)
- Borg warner S300SX-E (?)
- Equal length manifold w/ twin tial mvs 38 gates
- 3" Downpipe
- RW Throttle body w/ greddy Elbow
- Radtech V-mount IC setup
- Craig davies EWP
- Meth Injection (in the future, will run on pump first!)

I have everything on the list except the ones in red, that's what my questions are about..

for the turbo:
I'm going for the new Borg warner SXE with 8374 supercore BUT don't know what hotside i would need to run to hit 450-500hp. I figured the .91 would help spool the turbo quick but would maybe run out on top, so debating on going with the 1.00 what would you advise me going for on stock ports to hit 500hp with 1 bar below 4k rpm? The picture below with the red is what i had in mind but debating whether it is good for my goals..


As for my Fuel setup:
I don't know what to go with, i'm able to buy ID 725cc and 1000cc for a good price and planning to run either one as primaries but don't know what to use as secondaries, don't know if ID1000 are to big to run as primaries on stockport but don't know what to use as secondaries...I still need to decide on a FPR and pump, so need advise on which is best to suit my goals.. Also need help figuring out what lines to run from the tank to the rails and back FEED & RETURN and either running in series or parallel.
Fuel rails is one thing i will decide on later on as i'm debating whether to buy the RX-racing LIM or not.

If there's more that i need to consider please tell

 

Since you plan on running AI I'm assuming you plan to use pump gas if so you want the Walbro 90000262, for e85 90000267. As for injectors if you're E85 you can run 4 ID 2000s, for pump gas either 850 or 1000 primaries and 2000 secondaries(this is something you may want to consult your tuner about) . You may be maxing out the fuel pump looking for 450 to 500 hp on a single pump maybe consider adding additional pump or a Kenny Bell boost-a-pump, as for combining the turbos I would shoot Elliot or Shawn(at Turbosource) or (full-race)Geoff a p.m. or email, -8 Feed and return line should be more than enough when it comes the FPR look for a real Aeromotive

 

Thanks!, thats the pump i had in mind but isn't 6000cc total overkill on pump? just asking.. and am i not going to have trouble when it comes to let the engine idle on ID1000's since i'm on stock ports?

Thanks

 

.91 or 1.0 will be fine.

 

Thanks, but there will be a difference in spool RPM right? i want it to spool below 4k RPM preferably in the 3500 region.. it's maybe hard to tell because i know it depends on the rest of the setup but i don't want to end up making 1 bar at 4500 rpm.

 

iv got pretty much the same setup as your looking at and will be at the dyno today/tomorrow. my s360 is .91ar. Iv got stock primaries, id2000 secondaries, fuelab FPR, walbro 400lph pump

single walbro 400 / 450lph pump should be enough.
You can run id1000 primaries if you want.

edit; and you only need to run new fuel lines from the firewall forward, the hardlines that run under the car should be fine to leave as is.
You can get hardline to -an adapters to adapt the hardlines at the firewall to -an, then you can run -an lines from there to your fuel rail & back for the return.

 

Great info! very curious about the results keep me updated please, would love to see how it performs on the dyno!! Where can i find those hard line to -an fittings?

i just got the ID 1000 & 2000 yesterday going to order the walbro and FPR end of the month, currently busy with the Restoration of my little animal.

Here a pic of my car btw for the ones interested:

 

Does anyone know how big the sizes of the feed and return line are at the firewall for the FD?
I Found the hardline to -AN fittings, but need to know what sizes i need to run for FEED and return.. think 8 feed and 6 return must be sufficient for this setup (correct me if i'm wrong).

 

Firewall hard lines for both fuel lines are 8mm, 5/16" so 5AN. You will need 5an tube nuts and sleeves, and then 5an to 6an adapters.

Remember, the 5/16" line is going to be your restriction point, so me need for 8an unless you are running new hose all the way from the pump to the rails.

 

Thanks alot bud! think i'll just run a line from the tank to the front and maybe even do a -8 feed and -6 return while i'm at it.

I talked to my the tuner yesterday.. and from what he told me i'm going to HAVE to port the engine.. He told me my setup is way overkill for stock ports and would benefit more from the parts if i at least get a large streetport.

He advised me either to sell half my stuff or get a large streetport to benefit from the parts.. From what he said, i won't be going way over 450 FLY-horsepower so:
- no need for the AEM smart coils, stock coils with a hks twinpower would be sufficient;
- Power FC would be enough to suit my needs so i could sell the Adaptronic and save some money (i have power FC now and adaptronic sitting on a shelf);
- sell the ID injectors and get bosch ANSU 1650 and keep stock primaries;
- sell the RW throttle body because stock would be sufficient;
etc etc..

Not sure what to think about that.. i'm not a tuner and i do understand what he's saying (i'm way overspecced) but my opinion is that all the parts do help (maybe even a little bit) to help the motor make more power, be more reliable or/and run smoother.. Can't see a reason not to upgrade to smart coils and use direct fire with the Adaptronic.. from what i see people saying it made they're engine run smoother plus it beeing newer/better technology.

Even though i really wanted to stay stock port i think he does have a point in getting more out of the setup if i port the motor, what to do?? Porting would also mean getting a bigger turbo (or at least bigger a/r)

I drive my FD around town so he advised a large streetport so its still easy to drive around town, but isn't a half bridge also oke to drive with?

Dilemma..

 

IMO a large street port is going to move more power to up top, a stock street port is going to help your power down low. Telling you to do a large street port but reduce spark and fuel doesn't make any sense to me, a larger port job is capable of using more fuel not less.
(I'm not a tuner but)I've been told stock primaries with the PFC makes tuning much easier but with the Adaptronic 850s or 1000s should be no problem. Upgrading to larger fuel lines reduces pressure drop, reduces cycling and overheating. The greater the distance from injectors to pump increases pressure drop, the smaller the diameter line from pump to injectors and back increases pressure drop.
With that said plenty of people have made good power with stock ports, stock lines, stock primaries and 1600 secondaries, HKS twin power, and a PFC, I'm not knocking any of those products or recommendations they are tried and tested but why limit yourself especially if you already have the smart coils, the ECU and the injectors? Just my .02 cents

 

There is nothing wrong with having nice parts!
Yea, you dont NEED that much fuel for that much power. If you want to sell something, sell the ID2000's and go with 4 x ID1000's.
Keep the adaptronic...why downgrade to a PFC?

I would keep the ECU (PFC = old tech, no offence to those who run it, its a proven unit though)
I would keep the coils. (can only help / make it run smoother & cleaner)
I would keep the injectors. Can swap to 4 x ID1000, but only if you want to.
Get rid of the RW throttle body. Not required, and from what I read are not very good anyway.
Stock ports have their own benefits.

If all that fails, get a new tuner. I always thought an over-spec;d fuel system was a good thing...its not like you need to run the injectors at 100% all the time with massive fuel pressure

 

If you are going to run 500 WHP, I would probably run 5,500CC+ injector. always overbuild the fuel (pump fuel).

You can run an AEM fuel pump or supra pump. walbro is fine too.

I am running parallel fuel set up with 6AN lines.

I like ball bearing turbo's, run a good size wheel with smaller A/R housing IMO. .91 is good.

Run AI like planned. be safe.

 

Yes! my point also.. I mostly drive my car around town and sometimes will attend meetings or street/dragraces so i want the TQ the stockports will provide down in the low RPM range! as for the parts.. i already have them, i bought them new and rather not sell them (make a loss) just to stick to my old setup because that is also sufficient. I don't only want to make more power but also want to "upgrade" the car.. hence the new ECU, coils, wires, etc etc...

i'm thinking about the sticking the 725 in primary and keeping the id2000 secondaries.. don't think they will do harm even if they are overspecced for my setup. I want to try to hit 500whp on pump w/ meth on stock ports. what's the worse that can happen if the injectors are to big? the only thing i could think about is them running low injector duty.

What's bad at the RW throttle body, the guys over in England love them.. they claim to get more hp and better throttle response from them and to be honest i never heard a bad thing about them. Even saw a dyno with back to back results from the stock TB and the RW tb. the RW TB gained more HP and TQ overall across the powerband.


What is a good sized wheel if i want to make in the range of 500whp? Also what turbo are you using (what spec)? and what power do you make? do you use 6an feed and return lines? if so how did you do your parallel setup?? I'm going to do it myself but i would like to have an example of how to set it up..

My thought was to split the fuel feed line with an Y split before the fuel rails and run it to the pri and secondary fuel lines and join them at the end with another y connector going to the FPR. If this oke?

also wouldn't i need a 8AN feed line that splits in 2 smaller 6AN for optimal results?

i'm ordering the walbro gts400 at the end of the month and my FPR pulling the engine at the beginning of december to install all the parts so i still have time to configure my setup.

Thank all of you for your help and thoughts!

 

nothing bad will happen with the 2000cc injectors, especially so as they are ID injectors. You may have a slight hesitation when they first come online but nothing major, and your tuner should be able to tune it out with a good ECU.

In regards to the throttle body, iv just read stories of people having problems with them.. not sealing, ports not lining up, elbow not fitting correctly etc. No first hand experience with them, but I do know its deffinitly not needed to make good power.

 

Oke i understand.. i have test fitted mine on my greddy elbow and ported UIM and fits like a charm. I think i'll use it anyway would be a shame to sell it without even trying it. If i don't like it i can always revert back to stock.