$lacker

iTrader: (9)

I'm considering this conversion with my FD.
I'm running a stand alone, but I don't want this to become a shitshow of stand alone comparison, so please don't make it that

What is everyone's experience with this conversion? It seems fairly simple from a mechanical standpoint, but does it have significant benefits?

It should help improve idling and make it easier for someone to install traction control and/or cruise control. What else does it help with?

briansfd

iTrader: (4)

Talk to the Rotary Performance guys, they have a working prototype.

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

So I'm in the middle of having mine done right now. Parts wise you'll need an adapter plate for the TB (FFE snd Draklore both make one), the TB itself (I went with an Escalade TB) and the gas pedal out of any junked RX-8. In addition to getting the rx8 pedal you will also need to fashion a spacer to push the pedal far enough out from the firewall.

To my knowledge there is not currently a ready-made kit for getting the gas pedal in the right place, instead you'll need to make the spacers snd figure it out on your own.


Like you mentioned, the benefits of being able to accurately tune the throttlebody to assist in cruise control, traction control, launch control, engine protections, etc., etc., etc. make the conversion a bit of a no-brainer!! The capabilities of your tb will only be limited by the skills of the person programming it and the ability of your ecu

darksereniti

I too will be going the DBW route in the winter.

I chose Draklore's kit as it includes a pedal adapter to mount in the stock location using Camaro pedal.

Also, he is in the process of grooving the adapter to accept o-rings which is a big plus for me.

https://www.draklore.com/shop/fd-dbw-adapter-kit

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

Damn... I wish I had known about the camaro adapter plate 3 months ago!! Lol

$lacker

iTrader: (9)

What ports are you able to block off due to going DBW? What parts do you eliminate?

darksereniti

AIC and double throttle are going to be blocked off.

Topolino

iTrader: (2)

Which aftermarket oil filler neck is recommended when utilizing the DBW throttle body adapter?

Topolino

iTrader: (2)

Another good option for FD DBW accessories: forum member Zensation on here (build link below) has developed some products specific to DBW conversion; tb adapter, pedal mounting kit, electrical harness, etc. I believe his throttle body adapter utilizes an o-ring for improved mating, and has some unique porting contours to improve overall flow.

https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...build-1113634/ (TB adapter for DBW at the very end).

$lacker

iTrader: (9)

Has anyone ever made an adapter to attach the other side of the GM TB to a Greddy Elbow? Or a replacement elbow that would tie in the IC pipes to the TB instead of a Greddy?

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

I like DBW, but am concerned about drivability when changing the throttle setup on a rotary. The OEM setup keeps the primary and secondary intake runners separated from the engine all the way to the throttle blades, and the secondary throttle blades are closed when the pedal is between 0-30%.

newtgomez

I'm right in the middle of this conversion myself and the only gripe I've had was designing an intake pipe set up from the throttle body to my Greddy intercooler. The ideal angle seems to be 100 degrees coming off of the throttle body if you want simplicity. I have personally used 2.5 inch piping and it appears to work, but we will see how she does when she is up and running. The fabrication for the pedal is extremely straight forward. You can trace out and make a template off of the OEM throttle pedal (Thanks Mazda) and run a straight bar to your new pedal which should have come with a steel bracket. I used a Cadillac pedal from Summit Racing and everything was super straight forward (I believe a 4.5" straight bar off the plate is all that's necessary iirc). The oil filler neck is also pretty simple as well. Two 90's of 1 inch pipe, a homemade flange, a small straight and a way to get up to a custom oil filler neck size (Moroso makes a kit for an oil filler neck thread that fit perfectly inside of a 1.5" to 1" reducer). With a little creativity, the conversion is straight forward and fairly simple.

Personally, it doesn't look like converting to the Greddy elbow would be easy, nor would it fit as the LS throttle body with the FFE adapter gives very little room to work with. Seeking out a custom solution is the easiest imo. I would suggest getting a welder or becoming close friends with a guy who can do stainless and aluminum lol.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

4 port Renesis (Rx-8) handles this by having a shutter valve on the secondary ports in the intake manifold that is vacuum operated.

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

I've seen this car in person. There's a lot going into it and it's been quite a long project for Chris, Brandon and Dave. I wasn't aware it was running and driving yet though. If it is, that must be a recent development.

Can I pitch the question to all involved, what's the main benefit of going DBW? Why are most people interested in doing the conversion and what's to gain by doing it?

briansfd

iTrader: (4)

I'm picking my car up tomorrow or Wednesday. I can ask them about their progress.

ItalynStylion

iTrader: (1)

Nice! Hoping to get mine back late this week or next week too. Boost weather be upon us!

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

My primary thought(s) have to do with being able to incorporate the throttle opening into nearly every other aspect of the vehicle performance.

Car too hot/cold? Throttle limits. Valet mode? Throttle limits. Mashing the gas pedal at low speed? Program the throttle opening for maximum *actual* acceleration, as opposed to just doing a burnout. Traction/launch control? You can adjust the throttle to work along with fueling, spark, and even presumably boost to make the most useable power every single time. You can program the ecu to cut timing if it sees the start of a knock event then gradually add it back. Why not also program your throttle to limit itself in the event of the engine going outside of predetermined safety parameters?

It's one more aspect of control that could easily be the difference between blowing a motor in an absent minded moment and simply fixing a problem once you get home...

KYPREO

One limitation of using a dedicated DBW throttle body is that you won't have staging of primary and secondary intake and would therefore be expected to lose low throttle and off-boost torque. That shouldn't be a problem in racing applications but is probably undesirable on the street.

I have figured out some options to implement DBW without changing the throttle body through use of a remote throttle actuator. These systems are used to implement DBW on multi-throttle applications. In the OEM world they are seen on BMW M-series engines with 6, 8 or 10 throttle bodies and these BMW parts are widely available. This would allow you to re-use the FD throttle body and retain primary vs secondary staging.

The other advantage is no throttle body adaptor or modified intercooler piping is required, although you will need to find a suitable location to mount the actuator.

I have posted up some very detailed information on this here: AusRotary - Login

fendamonky

iTrader: (6)

The BMW TB actuator from the M cars was the first thing I considered. Unfortunately, the cost $500+ was a bit more than I wanted to shell out.

If there was a more affordable option that wouldn't be a mounting nightmare than I would be 100% with you!!

Blackadde///

iTrader: (27)

https://www.zprecision.com/product/r...le-pedal-mount

KYPREO

Really, that expensive? I picked up one for A$200 second hand (USD135) and wrecked M series BMWs are not exactly common here. USD500 would buy you a brand new one. I haven't mounted mine yet, but it should be too bad (famous last words). The throttle itself would be easy to adapt.

The bigger challenge is the extra current drawn by these actuators (as they have enough torque to open multiple throttle plates). But many people have successfully used this setup on Haltech, Link and Motec ECUs, so it's proven.

In my application, I had no choice, as my engine is running on straight LPG (propane) and the gas is delivery mechanically via the throttle body. The M series actuator allows me to drive that via DBW. For the pedal side, I'm using the factory RX-7 pedal then hooking the throttle cable to a pedal position sensor from a Honda or Peugot. These are a remote-mounted sensor with rotary potentiometer on a spring and are driven by a conventional throttle cable from the accelerator pedal. Running this kind of setup has 2 benefits: 1. you don't need to worry about adapting and mounting DBW pedals; 2. it will closer match the feel and resistance of a conventional pedal. Check out the Honda S2000 pedal sensor for example

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Any part from GM will be cheaper.

As for the advantages, the stock idle control system is very complicated with the mechanical fast idle valve, throttle adjusting screws, air bypass screw, and idle speed valve. On electronic throttles it's just closed loop control over throttle angle.

Also you can adjust the throttle mapping to be however you want it to be.

dguy

iTrader: (8)

s54 DBW actuators can be had on ebay pretty cheaply, like in the $150 range.

Topolino

iTrader: (2)

The 102 mm TB would likely be underutilized for my 8374 IWG application. But I'm curious if any of the souped up 90/95 mm versions by Nick Williams, et al, would be beneficial in any way. Apparently, the modified versions have beefier internal motors and or faster electronics to help improve DBW throttle response.

briansfd

iTrader: (4)

Another use for E throttle could be auto blip down shifts, instead of using a solenoid to blip throttle on a cable setup.