freeing apex seals?
11-09-03, 12:38 AM
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freeing apex seals?
hey, i have a motor thats been sitting for quite sometime and im pretty sure that it also has carbon buildup. if i pull off the turbos, is there anything i can put in the exhaust port that will remove carbon and free any stuck/sticking apex seals? id like to avoid a rebuild.
also would it be possible to "work" a sticking apex seal up and down to free it up? could i spin the motor till an apex seal lines up with the exhaust port spray it w/ wd-40 and then poke it with a stick or something??? haha thanks
also would it be possible to "work" a sticking apex seal up and down to free it up? could i spin the motor till an apex seal lines up with the exhaust port spray it w/ wd-40 and then poke it with a stick or something??? haha thanks
Last edited by RotorMotor; 11-09-03 at 12:41 AM.
11-09-03, 12:43 AM
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Gently put your mouth up to the intake ports and blow in it. Keep blowing until you can feel your cheeks hurting.
That should fix it. Maybe followup with some stick poking if it doesn't work out.
That should fix it. Maybe followup with some stick poking if it doesn't work out.
11-09-03, 01:13 AM
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If it is that bad I would probably have someone reputable rebuild it. If there is enough carbon to stop the engine from rotating, A big chunk could fall into the rotor housing and screw everything up!!Which will be a more expensive rebuild possibly.
11-09-03, 01:27 AM
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hahahaha im gonna use "claynes" method 
!!!! ok heres the deal with this engine, i bought it used with 60,000 kilometers on it... the thing is this engine has been siting for a long time. its from an automatic so im assuming some amount of carbon buildup cause people w/ autos dont really rev it up if you know what i mean 
. anyway, i want to take every measure possible while its out of the car to ensure that it runs as best as it can. tell me more about the automatic fluid? will it disolve carbon and other grimy stuff thats in there? it wont ruin any seals or anything? can anyone think of any other fluids that i can dump in? my MGB mechanic used to swear by Magic Mystery Oil... he would mix it with i dont remember what... dump it in each cylinder and a week later the engine was usually freed. any more thoughts or comments......
BigIslandSeven: the motor will spin just fine
!!!! ok heres the deal with this engine, i bought it used with 60,000 kilometers on it... the thing is this engine has been siting for a long time. its from an automatic so im assuming some amount of carbon buildup cause people w/ autos dont really rev it up if you know what i mean . anyway, i want to take every measure possible while its out of the car to ensure that it runs as best as it can. tell me more about the automatic fluid? will it disolve carbon and other grimy stuff thats in there? it wont ruin any seals or anything? can anyone think of any other fluids that i can dump in? my MGB mechanic used to swear by Magic Mystery Oil... he would mix it with i dont remember what... dump it in each cylinder and a week later the engine was usually freed. any more thoughts or comments......BigIslandSeven: the motor will spin just fine
11-09-03, 01:45 AM
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Cool!! Didn't realize it spun. ATF fluid has detergents in it that cleans the components of the system.(AT system) It may help with the carbon. Some kind of penetrating oil/lube is needed. TRI-FLO is my personal favorite!! liquid wrench,carb cleaner used carefully, etc....I still think a rebuil would be most beneficial.( maybe not most economic)
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11-09-03, 02:38 AM
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yeah i would really love to do a rebuild, but i hate to tear apart an engine that may be perfectly good. everything i think may be wrong with it are just assumptions. so would you say the atf would be my best bet out of everything listed above? or some mixture? or doing one than another? heath
clayne: where is rotorsport... im in oakland
clayne: where is rotorsport... im in oakland
11-10-03, 10:14 AM
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I think if you spray alot of WD-40 in the LIM and turn the motor by hand slowly so the WD will go in the apex seals enough and after letting it soak for few hours you can safely turn tha car on and let it idle for a while to clear up you should be OK.
11-10-03, 10:31 AM
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I wouldn't use WD-40. It dries. There are carbon cleaners used to decarbon the intake. Check with auto parts stores. The biggest problem here is whatever you use (other than ATF) it will remove lubrication from the rotor housing. I have "decarboned" a piston engine with diesel fuel - spray it in there, let it soak in to the carbon deposits, then start the engine. The carbon "explodes" off the surfaces as the fuel ignites - potentially damaging as the carbon chunks can jam. Whatever you do, rotate the engine by hand, and relube with 2 stroke oil when you're done. I removed the turbo and worked/checked the apex seals through the exhaust ports on a used engine I had a few years ago. I doubt you could clean them though - pretty tight space - but I'm sure someone could do it, just not me.
11-10-03, 11:11 AM
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hey thanks for hte info! im going to pull the turbos and throw some atf in there. is atf combustable or is it just an oil based liquid. i will rotate the engine by hand and "work" the apex seals... ill just feel better if i do a little more than just throwing the engine in. ill let everyone know how it turns out. thanks again! heath
11-10-03, 11:19 AM
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hey thanks for hte info! im going to pull the turbos and throw some atf in there. is atf combustable or is it just an oil based liquid. i will rotate the engine by hand and "work" the apex seals... ill just feel better if i do a little more than just throwing the engine in. ill let everyone know how it turns out. thanks again! heath
11-10-03, 02:15 PM
#15
RotorMotor, no need to experiment. I have already done what your looking for. Check this thread: (last post)
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...5&pagenumber=1
It works because I just recently performed this on the 13b in my FD with 73k original miles with good results. If you try this use a scotch pad instead of the steel wool I used before. Now I don't have to worry about carbon lock.
Edit: WD-40 guys? Use a good fuel system cleaner because thats what it's designed to do. Clean carbon!
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...5&pagenumber=1
It works because I just recently performed this on the 13b in my FD with 73k original miles with good results. If you try this use a scotch pad instead of the steel wool I used before. Now I don't have to worry about carbon lock.
Edit: WD-40 guys? Use a good fuel system cleaner because thats what it's designed to do. Clean carbon!
Last edited by t-von; 11-10-03 at 02:30 PM.
11-10-03, 03:43 PM
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yeah i remember responding to that thread but i still have a few questions: did you just use fuel system cleaner? or then after all that add ATF to lube everything up? well maybe like someone above said just use 2 stroke oil but im not too familiar with it....
so t-von, have you got your motor running? what were the results?
thanks, heath
so t-von, have you got your motor running? what were the results?
thanks, heath
11-10-03, 05:21 PM
#17
All I did was use fuel system cleaner (no ATF). The results I have are with my 13b. I had to change the clutch so I pulled the engine and did the carbon cleaning while it was out. I wanted to do this test on a running car to make sure it would work. The fuel system cleaner provided me with enough lubrication at start-up(because the housing were still a little wet form the solution). You wouldn't believe how much carbon there was that came out. After start-up, there was a little black smoke that went away shortly afterwards. I wanted to do a compression test before but the car badly needed a new clutch and was not drivable.
I dont have any results from the 20b yet. It wont be installed till maybe February. I still need a computer and flywheel before it goes in. But I'll tell you this, when I recieved my 20b, it had really no compression. After doing the cleaning now when you manually turn over the engine, you can really hear some strong pulses out of the lower spark plug holes where as before, you couldn't hear anything. As a comparision, the pulses almost sound as strong as my 13b after I cleaned it. When I finally get it in, I will do a compression test and post the results.
Now if you do this, use a really long skinney screw driver that is slightly bent. This will give you the angle you will need to scrub the rotor faces clean. Also, use one of those scotch pads cut in 1" sizes. Place the small piece of scotch pad in the housing with the solution. Now because the screw driver has a flat head, this make it easier for you the work the scotch pad onto the rotor face to scrub. Be patent because this takes practice and time(took me 2 hours on the 13b), but you will quickly get the hang of it. One last thing, attach the engine from the rear on the engine stand. This will allow you to rotate the engine around so you can drain everything out.
I dont have any results from the 20b yet. It wont be installed till maybe February. I still need a computer and flywheel before it goes in. But I'll tell you this, when I recieved my 20b, it had really no compression. After doing the cleaning now when you manually turn over the engine, you can really hear some strong pulses out of the lower spark plug holes where as before, you couldn't hear anything. As a comparision, the pulses almost sound as strong as my 13b after I cleaned it. When I finally get it in, I will do a compression test and post the results.
Now if you do this, use a really long skinney screw driver that is slightly bent. This will give you the angle you will need to scrub the rotor faces clean. Also, use one of those scotch pads cut in 1" sizes. Place the small piece of scotch pad in the housing with the solution. Now because the screw driver has a flat head, this make it easier for you the work the scotch pad onto the rotor face to scrub. Be patent because this takes practice and time(took me 2 hours on the 13b), but you will quickly get the hang of it. One last thing, attach the engine from the rear on the engine stand. This will allow you to rotate the engine around so you can drain everything out.
11-10-03, 06:40 PM
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thanks t-von! yeah this is for a 20b too . good luck on your 20b conversion. i just got a donor FD for my project so its starting to get underway... i still need a subframe and a few miscellanious things. keep me updated as your project moves along 20b buddy! oh yeah and thanks for the info. heath
. good luck on your 20b conversion. i just got a donor FD for my project so its starting to get underway... i still need a subframe and a few miscellanious things. keep me updated as your project moves along 20b buddy! oh yeah and thanks for the info. heath
11-10-03, 07:41 PM
#19
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Originally posted by t-von
All I did was use fuel system cleaner (no ATF). The results I have are with my 13b. I had to change the clutch so I pulled the engine and did the carbon cleaning while it was out. I wanted to do this test on a running car to make sure it would work. The fuel system cleaner provided me with enough lubrication at start-up(because the housing were still a little wet form the solution). You wouldn't believe how much carbon there was that came out. After start-up, there was a little black smoke that went away shortly afterwards. I wanted to do a compression test before but the car badly needed a new clutch and was not drivable.
I dont have any results from the 20b yet. It wont be installed till maybe February. I still need a computer and flywheel before it goes in. But I'll tell you this, when I recieved my 20b, it had really no compression. After doing the cleaning now when you manually turn over the engine, you can really hear some strong pulses out of the lower spark plug holes where as before, you couldn't hear anything. As a comparision, the pulses almost sound as strong as my 13b after I cleaned it. When I finally get it in, I will do a compression test and post the results.
Now if you do this, use a really long skinney screw driver that is slightly bent. This will give you the angle you will need to scrub the rotor faces clean. Also, use one of those scotch pads cut in 1" sizes. Place the small piece of scotch pad in the housing with the solution. Now because the screw driver has a flat head, this make it easier for you the work the scotch pad onto the rotor face to scrub. Be patent because this takes practice and time(took me 2 hours on the 13b), but you will quickly get the hang of it. One last thing, attach the engine from the rear on the engine stand. This will allow you to rotate the engine around so you can drain everything out.
All I did was use fuel system cleaner (no ATF). The results I have are with my 13b. I had to change the clutch so I pulled the engine and did the carbon cleaning while it was out. I wanted to do this test on a running car to make sure it would work. The fuel system cleaner provided me with enough lubrication at start-up(because the housing were still a little wet form the solution). You wouldn't believe how much carbon there was that came out. After start-up, there was a little black smoke that went away shortly afterwards. I wanted to do a compression test before but the car badly needed a new clutch and was not drivable.
I dont have any results from the 20b yet. It wont be installed till maybe February. I still need a computer and flywheel before it goes in. But I'll tell you this, when I recieved my 20b, it had really no compression. After doing the cleaning now when you manually turn over the engine, you can really hear some strong pulses out of the lower spark plug holes where as before, you couldn't hear anything. As a comparision, the pulses almost sound as strong as my 13b after I cleaned it. When I finally get it in, I will do a compression test and post the results.
Now if you do this, use a really long skinney screw driver that is slightly bent. This will give you the angle you will need to scrub the rotor faces clean. Also, use one of those scotch pads cut in 1" sizes. Place the small piece of scotch pad in the housing with the solution. Now because the screw driver has a flat head, this make it easier for you the work the scotch pad onto the rotor face to scrub. Be patent because this takes practice and time(took me 2 hours on the 13b), but you will quickly get the hang of it. One last thing, attach the engine from the rear on the engine stand. This will allow you to rotate the engine around so you can drain everything out.
11-11-03, 12:42 AM
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^ whats so funy.... if it works and saves a rebuild then thats hott ****! i figure... i brush my teeth...i probably should brush my rotors as well hahahaha
11-11-03, 12:55 PM
#21
Originally posted by RotorMotor
^ whats so funy.... if it works and saves a rebuild then thats hott ****! i figure... i brush my teeth...i probably should brush my rotors as well hahahaha
^ whats so funy.... if it works and saves a rebuild then thats hott ****! i figure... i brush my teeth...i probably should brush my rotors as well hahahaha
Agreed! RotorMotor, there are alot of closed minded people in the world. I say, just let them be! You know it's a shame that people on this forum are so hell bent on rebuilding rotarys when "sometimes", it's not even necessary. The whole idea behind this method is to post pone a rebuild for us do-it-yourselfers who choose to buy the imported/uses engines like I did. With the money you save, this allows you to apply your hard earned money elsewhere. And then when everything is properly set-up, then rebuild your engine to your specifications. Ask yourself this question, if I have a used engine sitting in the garage awaiting installaton, why not go ahead and do this. Or you could take that perfectly good engine(MAYBE) and spend extra money to have it rebuilt right way. Most of you would go with the first option if money was a factor. I've had my past experiences with carbon lock because a high mileage engine of mine sat up way too long before I tried to start it. Anyways I will keep everyone informed of my progress. Hopefully in he next couple weeks, I will get a compression check on the 13b and we'll see what #s I get.
