FD smokes at startup...normal?
08-09-03, 05:18 PM
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FD smokes at startup...normal?
I'm looking at buying a '93 RX7 with 73k miles. The price is a little high (14k), but it's in great shape and I think I can probably talk them down a little.
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling. It sounded smooth though. I took it out for a drive and it felt good (felt the 10-8-10 boost behavior), and after the drive I couldn't see the exhaust.
Any ideas about the starutp smoke? Is it something I should be worried about?
Thanks,
- Brian
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling. It sounded smooth though. I took it out for a drive and it felt good (felt the 10-8-10 boost behavior), and after the drive I couldn't see the exhaust.
Any ideas about the starutp smoke? Is it something I should be worried about?
Thanks,
- Brian
08-09-03, 05:35 PM
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The smoking usually lasts 15 sec or so. It's due to the fact that the rotary injects engine oil into the combustion chamber during operations. When the engine shuts down, there is residual engine oil in the engine and it burns off at the next startup. If the blue smoke lasts longer than a minute, the engine may be aging.
Also, during cold days (less than 60 degrees outside), then engine will emit a lot of white smoke due to condensation in the exhaust system. This is normal as well.
You should do some research to see what to check for when shopping for an FD, or a 93-95 RX7. FDs have some common problems and you want to know what you're getting into or else you could spend more than $3-5k in repairs to get it in perfect mechanical condition. Rotary engines do not last long when it's not in perfect order, unlike most piston engines, which would run fine even if there's some problems. This is why rotary engines are commonly conceived as unreliable. It should be considered as fickle or demanding instead. If you maintain it well, it'll last just as long as a 300Z engine, for example.
Here is a good site to start with:
http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette/
Also, during cold days (less than 60 degrees outside), then engine will emit a lot of white smoke due to condensation in the exhaust system. This is normal as well.
You should do some research to see what to check for when shopping for an FD, or a 93-95 RX7. FDs have some common problems and you want to know what you're getting into or else you could spend more than $3-5k in repairs to get it in perfect mechanical condition. Rotary engines do not last long when it's not in perfect order, unlike most piston engines, which would run fine even if there's some problems. This is why rotary engines are commonly conceived as unreliable. It should be considered as fickle or demanding instead. If you maintain it well, it'll last just as long as a 300Z engine, for example.
Here is a good site to start with:
http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette/
08-09-03, 05:37 PM
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A little blue smoke at startup is normal. It has been said that some oil and gas collect at the bottom of the housings when the car is off. And when you start the car you are just burning off that collected oil/gas. If the smoke is continous, then you may have a problem.
08-09-03, 07:14 PM
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Turbos... Take off the intake hoses assuming its stock and check for oil, if none thats ok, and then take off the hose after the crossover going to the intercooler and check for oil..
08-10-03, 11:00 PM
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turbojeff--- You mean after the turbos correct. Oil inbetween the airfilter and Turbos is NOT good. Some oil between the Turbos and the intercooler is OK, just as long as its not like a puddle inside there.
TAELEEM Quote:
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling.
Just wanted to put out he said the first minute, not the first 15 secs. I would agree for the first 15 sec SOMETIMES, especially with a ported motor, but not all the time with a stock motor. If he is stock and this does this winter and summer, then maybe its a problem, summer time its SOMETIMES normal...
TAELEEM Quote:
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling.
Just wanted to put out he said the first minute, not the first 15 secs. I would agree for the first 15 sec SOMETIMES, especially with a ported motor, but not all the time with a stock motor. If he is stock and this does this winter and summer, then maybe its a problem, summer time its SOMETIMES normal...
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08-10-03, 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by SpiritR
turbojeff--- You mean after the turbos correct. Oil inbetween the airfilter and Turbos is NOT good. Some oil between the Turbos and the intercooler is OK, just as long as its not like a puddle inside there.
TAELEEM Quote:
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling.
Just wanted to put out he said the first minute, not the first 15 secs. I would agree for the first 15 sec SOMETIMES, especially with a ported motor, but not all the time with a stock motor. If he is stock and this does this winter and summer, then maybe its a problem, summer time its SOMETIMES normal...
turbojeff--- You mean after the turbos correct. Oil inbetween the airfilter and Turbos is NOT good. Some oil between the Turbos and the intercooler is OK, just as long as its not like a puddle inside there.
TAELEEM Quote:
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling.
Just wanted to put out he said the first minute, not the first 15 secs. I would agree for the first 15 sec SOMETIMES, especially with a ported motor, but not all the time with a stock motor. If he is stock and this does this winter and summer, then maybe its a problem, summer time its SOMETIMES normal...
form my experience, blue smoke at idle for prolonged amount of times is turbo failure. check your inlet pipes, like previously mentioned.
08-12-03, 07:18 AM
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I was kind of assuming this is first start of the morning on the Winter/Summer thing since metal expands and contracts. So first start would depend on outside temps more, but like I said its more on the assumption that its a first start of the day.
08-12-03, 11:21 AM
#10
Originally posted by SpiritR
turbojeff--- You mean after the turbos correct. Oil inbetween the airfilter and Turbos is NOT good. Some oil between the Turbos and the intercooler is OK, just as long as its not like a puddle inside there.
TAELEEM Quote:
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling.
Just wanted to put out he said the first minute, not the first 15 secs. I would agree for the first 15 sec SOMETIMES, especially with a ported motor, but not all the time with a stock motor. If he is stock and this does this winter and summer, then maybe its a problem, summer time its SOMETIMES normal...
turbojeff--- You mean after the turbos correct. Oil inbetween the airfilter and Turbos is NOT good. Some oil between the Turbos and the intercooler is OK, just as long as its not like a puddle inside there.
TAELEEM Quote:
When I started up the car, it put out quite a bit of blue smoke for the first minute of idling.
Just wanted to put out he said the first minute, not the first 15 secs. I would agree for the first 15 sec SOMETIMES, especially with a ported motor, but not all the time with a stock motor. If he is stock and this does this winter and summer, then maybe its a problem, summer time its SOMETIMES normal...
Also you can get "puddling" on the bottom of the IC and the bottom of the IC pipes. with a perfectly functioning car.
Drive the sucker hard, lift at 6-7K rpms and watch out the back for lots of smoke. That is a bad sign.
Jeff
08-12-03, 08:27 PM
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Also you can get "puddling" on the bottom of the IC and the bottom of the IC pipes. with a perfectly functioning car----
Im not trying to sound like a dick man. He didnt say the car is running bad or anything, just smoking. I didnt say the car would break, but blowback of oil into the Airbox is NOT good, the Turbos may last for a while longer but I wouldnt expect them to last a long time.
Im not trying to sound like a dick man. He didnt say the car is running bad or anything, just smoking. I didnt say the car would break, but blowback of oil into the Airbox is NOT good, the Turbos may last for a while longer but I wouldnt expect them to last a long time.
08-12-03, 09:50 PM
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Mines got 83000+ miles on her now...I've had her for over half of those.....oil gets in the turbos if she sits for a while it pools up and starts to drip (I'm fortunate enough to have a company car so the 7 is seldom driven).
Long story short....it's totally normal. Mine has done this since I got her in 1997 and she still pulls like a ****.... just a 3rd gen thang
GEB.
Long story short....it's totally normal. Mine has done this since I got her in 1997 and she still pulls like a ****.... just a 3rd gen thang
GEB.
08-12-03, 11:06 PM
#13
Originally posted by SpiritR
Im not trying to sound like a dick man. He didnt say the car is running bad or anything, just smoking. I didnt say the car would break, but blowback of oil into the Airbox is NOT good, the Turbos may last for a while longer but I wouldnt expect them to last a long time.
Im not trying to sound like a dick man. He didnt say the car is running bad or anything, just smoking. I didnt say the car would break, but blowback of oil into the Airbox is NOT good, the Turbos may last for a while longer but I wouldnt expect them to last a long time.
Let me explain how it gets there. See there is some oil in the intake tract right? Well the BOV and CRV vent the intake tract to the airbox allow that oil to blow right back into the airbox. Get it? Some oil is normal in the airbox.
If the airbox is a "bloody mess" of oil then something is wrong, if there is a light, general coating, especially near the BOV and CRV then it is normal.
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining, only because I'm right, I've got more experience with FDs in the last month that you've had in your lifetime.
08-12-03, 11:10 PM
#14
I've got to post this as it's one of the more enlighting posts I've read:
As for oil on the intake, doesn't really mean the turbos are bad. A HUGE misconception in the 3rd gen community is the amount of oil in the intake tract determines how close you are to a blown set of turbos. Not true, mostly, most people forget that the 93, and 94's have a PCV system. Positive Crankcase Ventilation system, which succinctly means when the boost fills the crankcase to a predetermined limit the air and oil must go somewhere. There are a series of hoses coming off the manifold to the oil filler neck and one comes down strait below the hose going to the manifold(which contains a black and grey checkvalve, this is the pcv valve)this hose goes under the alternator and down to the pipe cluster that goes behind the air pump. There are 2 hoses that come up off of the primary turbo inlet that attach to these pipes. Since the turbo inlet side is sucking air, this is the source for vacuum for the vacuum chamber(helps control the charge control valve and transition) and the other hose is the "dump" for this PCV system. Now, the harder you drive the car and are on and off boost, the more the pcv system will be active and "dumping" oil into the inlet side of the primary turbo, and if the oil is dumped into the incoming air, then logically it, since it is liquid and cannot be compressed(right) it just coats the intake piping and leads one to believe the turbos are going bad! Class dismissed.
08-12-03, 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by turbojeff
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining, only because I'm right, I've got more experience with FDs in the last month that you've had in your lifetime.
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining, only because I'm right, I've got more experience with FDs in the last month that you've had in your lifetime.
08-14-03, 08:14 PM
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining, only because I'm right, I've got more experience with FDs in the last month that you've had in your lifetime.
HAHA Thats funny.... You dont even know who your talking about. Ever been to a doctor that said this wrong with you? Then you see a different doctor ot dentist etc.. And then he said no this is fine its THIS?
OK THAT JUST MADE YOU A JACKASS KNOW IT ALL! haha
I would be more then happy to stop by your shop, oh im sorry you dont have one. Opinions are like ******** we all go them and they ALL stink. Saying your right no matter what makes you a dipshit, just go sit on your thumb.
HAHA Thats funny.... You dont even know who your talking about. Ever been to a doctor that said this wrong with you? Then you see a different doctor ot dentist etc.. And then he said no this is fine its THIS?
OK THAT JUST MADE YOU A JACKASS KNOW IT ALL! haha
I would be more then happy to stop by your shop, oh im sorry you dont have one. Opinions are like ******** we all go them and they ALL stink. Saying your right no matter what makes you a dipshit, just go sit on your thumb.
08-14-03, 08:50 PM
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i dont have any oil in my piping because my turbos are new but my car smokes sometimes for a few min. sometimes it doesnt smoke at all. its got 92000 miles on it and it fell great and pulls hard. its been smoking off and on for over a year now.
08-15-03, 01:45 AM
#18
Originally posted by SpiritR
HAHA Thats funny.... You dont even know who your talking about. Ever been to a doctor that said this wrong with you? Then you see a different doctor ot dentist etc.. And then he said no this is fine its THIS?
OK THAT JUST MADE YOU A JACKASS KNOW IT ALL! haha
I would be more then happy to stop by your shop, oh im sorry you dont have one. Opinions are like ******** we all go them and they ALL stink. Saying your right no matter what makes you a dipshit, just go sit on your thumb.
HAHA Thats funny.... You dont even know who your talking about. Ever been to a doctor that said this wrong with you? Then you see a different doctor ot dentist etc.. And then he said no this is fine its THIS?
OK THAT JUST MADE YOU A JACKASS KNOW IT ALL! haha
I would be more then happy to stop by your shop, oh im sorry you dont have one. Opinions are like ******** we all go them and they ALL stink. Saying your right no matter what makes you a dipshit, just go sit on your thumb.
To say I don't know what I'm talking about is stupid. I don't need to prove I have a shop or work out of my garage or not . If I'm a "jackass know it all", fine then at least you admit I do "know it all".
You don't even have a house, go back to your room junior, if your FD isn't running right maybe your mommy and daddy can help you fix it "SpirtR".
Or maybe you should go see your dentist, LOL.
08-15-03, 03:06 AM
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I remember your punk *** from a few months ago. You made some cheesy excuse about your brother posting as you, I didn't buy it then, I don't buy it now. You are the punk---ME hummm Dont remeber that.
Or maybe you should go see your dentist, LOL---OK yeah maybe I should, or maybe a procologist since I have a TURBOJEFF stuck in my ***! LOL
I NEVER SAID THE FRUCKIN TURBOS were going BAD MORON, you just want to display your GREAT knowledge(ahummm). I simply said look into it. ONLY a dummy would just dismiss it, he is buying the car, better make sure its not messed up. If the guy wants to sell it, ask him to take some small parts apart, only take about 20 mins
i dont have any oil in my piping because my turbos are new but my car smokes sometimes for a few min. sometimes it doesnt smoke at all. its got 92000 miles on it and it fell great and pulls hard. its been smoking off and on for over a year now.----ON AND OFF yes, NOW that sounds like a FD, a little oil in the piping is fine BEHIND the turbos but not in front of them.
Or maybe you should go see your dentist, LOL---OK yeah maybe I should, or maybe a procologist since I have a TURBOJEFF stuck in my ***! LOL
I NEVER SAID THE FRUCKIN TURBOS were going BAD MORON, you just want to display your GREAT knowledge(ahummm). I simply said look into it. ONLY a dummy would just dismiss it, he is buying the car, better make sure its not messed up. If the guy wants to sell it, ask him to take some small parts apart, only take about 20 mins
i dont have any oil in my piping because my turbos are new but my car smokes sometimes for a few min. sometimes it doesnt smoke at all. its got 92000 miles on it and it fell great and pulls hard. its been smoking off and on for over a year now.----ON AND OFF yes, NOW that sounds like a FD, a little oil in the piping is fine BEHIND the turbos but not in front of them.
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