Hey Stephen, I've been considering a single turbo but what you have sounds like a better bargain. Plus I can sneak by the smog police w/o a huge diesel turbos smack dab in the middle of the engine compartment.

Are these ball bearings in the stock housing?

 

I would like to see numbers for "both" sequential and non-sequential, please.

I don't get full boost untill 5500rpm in sequential on stock twins, so 4500rpms would be nice but at what rpm do they start? ...both setups?

 

Stephen,
What kind of intake temps are you seeing at 17psi?

 

ok... i'm ready for a set in about march, when the sun starts to come out a little more.... how do i buy them?? and price???? i thought it was about $2k right?? what else is recommended?? pfc? fmic? larger injectors?? fuel pump? etc etc.... thanks for all your help!

 

you will need the full list of mods...including a 3bar map sensor...ecu...1600 cc inj and rail...boost controller...and plenty of other goodies.

you will need my mod list...but a better pump and the larger injectors and ignition

j

 

How would these run with a stock car? Would they not run well at 10 psi?

 

BATMAN who runs the BNR carbon seal twins sequentially says that at 10 psi the hybrids aren't much more powerful - they are more linear in power delivery. The secret weapon turbos at 10 psi would spool faster than stock but not sure about power gains - the sweet spot seems to be 15-16 psi. Stephen was running 1.1 bar so that's less than 16 psi and he pulled those numbers. I'd imagine from 13 psi and up is where you'd really notice the jump in power

 

Ok, let me ask this:

Lets say I have these turbos in my car, other than an upgraded ECU to keep up with the fuel needed at 15ish psi, would I need anything? I realize that I wouldnt get the same power gains but thats not exactly what im after here. the question is, would it work?

 

you're gonna need an upgraded fuel pump and upgraded primary and secondary injectors also.

 

cant tell whats on your car actionhank. the stuff that artguy is what is needed to run this setup without blowing up your car. even if you turn the boost down the comp. wheels flow more cfm's than the stockers so you would HAVE to get all that stuff. its not worth it if you arent gonna do it right.

paul

 

No Bryan has rectified the "restrictive" manifold see below from Stephen:
Yup, Brian cut out the door in the manifold and I removed teh butterfly in the Y pipe. EVERYTHING single thing that has to do with the turbo system as been removed except the wg actuator and it hooked up totally manual with no wg solenoids or anything.

 

I was speaking hypotheticly. I was just wondering. It wouldnt have been anything high on my list but it sounds like it is going to be on it though.

Wait... would I have to have a porteded engine too?

 

congratulations Brian and Stephen, and to everyone involved... i'll be one of many watching this closely.
just goes to show, turbos are like *****: two that get the job done are better than one big one. keep up the good work and Happy Christmas to all

 

Marshell is talking about all the other upgraded twins different venders have done over the years. They try to port the exhaust manifold and all kind of stuff claiming that the prob is the manifold design. All we did at all to the manifold setup was cut out the flapper which thousands of people have been doing for years when going non seq. Ever with that done it was always "known" that the manifold design wouldnt allow over about 400rwhp tops.

STEPHEN

 

merry xmas boys and girls...were getting dyno charts in our stockings tonight!

arent we santa?

j

 

These twins while bolt up are displacing the power of a large single....you will need the supporting mods.

Your really going to need a standalone like the PFC, haltec, AEM because when you start making power your going to need to control the timing. Your going to need the supporting fuel, your going to need a IC, intake, full exhaust.

Could you slap in a upgraded Pettit unlimited chiped ecu and these turbos....yes. BUT, I have not dynoed these at a lot boost level, I think even at 12psi youd be pretty much maxing out the stock fuel system so I wouldnt try it. I cant remember exactly but I THINK I was making well over 350rwhp at 12psi. You might would be ok if you still have the main cat in place as you wont be making as much power. There is only one way to find out and thats to get on a dyno and see how it does and what your a/f ratio is. I'd start at a low boost level like 8psi and see how your a/f looks. Once you get to around 340rwhp you need to have your fuel system and pump upgraded.

Also you really need a upgraded IC but these turbos run sooooo much cooler that I think you might can get by with the stock IC for a little while like up to about 10psi. Mainly you just need to watch your intake temp and make sure they are good, the stock IC will be a HUGE restriction but if your intake temps are ok thats whats important.

Now dont think your going to make a lot of power with a set up like that but it might get you by if you need turbos now and want to get something you can grow into. Personally I think most of the people wanting these already have all the supporting mods like intake, full exhaust, IC, computer, upgraded fuel.

STEPHEN

 

I think we are going to get the dyno charts Thrus. I couldnt go today since its Christmas Eve, I've got family coming over and I have a meeting till 2 so it was impossible. I think we are going to do it Thrusday.

You guys get ready cause we're also thinking of throwing in a splash of race gas and turning it up a another 1.5-2psi of boost

STEPHEN

 

dayum, a few days inactive, and such breakthroughs ! amazing !

 

I can't wait for the dyno!

Make sure to document AFRs and gas type as well. Since I'm sure you'll be doing some lower boost runs followed by tuning and then moving to higher levels, if possible I'd like to see "best run" dynos at around 12psi, 15psi, and if you go higher.

If you do anything fun like make a video or something, I will host it

Brian

 

I vote (not that anybody cares :-)) you make at least some runs with street gas. It's all well and good to see some high output runs on race gas but to me real world runs are more telling. If you can make big HP on pump gas, safely, it goes without saying that you can up the HP with more octane.

Will you be posting both sets of charts?

 

the initial runs were on pump gas!!! . . . and all later that night was on pump gas. . . stephen wasted everybody on pump gas. . . and i mean EVERYBODY!! HAHAHA.

paul

 

You guys get ready cause we're also thinking of throwing in a splash of race gas and turning it up a another 1.5-2psi of boost


Hey Stephen, you're getting a little greedy already as if a jump of 120 rwhp or so wasn't enough Just be careful - you don't have Hurley seals in do you? I know they've been failing on some engines - I have 2mm Hurleys and am scared to run over 15 psi - if Brian built your engine I'm sure he went back to oem.
Good luck and be careful...

Since I have a cat and am staying sequential I doubt I can squeeze more than 400 rwhp from the manifold on pump gas. We'll see....

 

you DO NOT want to run the stock IC on those turbos...the stock ic will choke the hell out of the system...sure you could drive it...but you can also drive the thing while it is overheating....if you go thru the trouble to do all that work and then slap the stock junk ic back in there...wtf did you go thru with all the trouble in the first place?

dont strangle your system...the diff between the stock choker IC and my m2 large was tremendous. upgraded turbos flow LOTS more than the stockers at equal boost levels. keep that in mind. its not just about the temps..its about flow and maximum flow.


j

 

I understand the first runs were on pump gas. But we have yet to see the graphs for the first runs. And it's my understanding that one of the reasons for the second set of runs is to back up the first set. So it just follows that if you want to back up the first set you need to do the second set with the same fuel.

Jason is right. It would be pointless to go to all the trouble of putting on high flow twins just to choke them down with the stock IC.

 

Exactly. To go along with that, you'll need everything you'd need to run a single turbo: fuel pump, injectors, IC, engine management, boost control, most likely an ignition amp/race plugs, informational gauges (oil/water temp, egt, etc) and also the suspension and brake upgrades so that you don't kill yourself with all this power .

Over the last 4 years I've set my R1 up for this. The main change I had to make was tossing my Hurley apex seals in exchange for stock.