Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

OK guys.. Maybe its time for me to stop reading the forum and stop trying to help..

I feel like I see the same questions asked over and over and I'm starting to miss more important threads because other useless threads gets bump up to the top.

Searching becomes almost useless because same questions are asked so many times and most of the threads that gets pulled up are either half answered or mis informed information, because its a chat between "newbs".

I know this topic was brought up before and no solution was ever made.. But, I think its time for us to start thinking about the future of the forum and start discussing about how to improve it. I know I'm not the only veteran FD owner whos thinking about disappearing from the forum...

I think ONE subforum where you have to be either invited or have XXXXnumber of post to post. But newbs can view and read.... Just can't post..

That will give some of us old timers to get away from reading tons of useless info or info we already know and save time searching for good threads.

FDNena

iTrader: (2)

I still consider myself a newbie and even I get tired of reading the sames things over and over and I miss the stuff I really want to read about cause it has been buried by the time I get to the forum.

This looks like a thread for the the "suggestions" area for sure. We need an "Introduce yourself section"

Doc-1

iTrader: (2)

What an odd comment. This car brings people in with an excitement and passion like no other. When questions stop being asked is the time that it is time to move on. You may consider an expert section but then again you lose the most important part of this. The raw excitement of a new owner with a thousand questions.

Doc

FDNena

iTrader: (2)

^^^Stick around long enough and it won't find it odd at all. You'll see....

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I still remember the excitement of owning this car for the first time.. And I also meet with local 7 owners and talk about the basics of this car.. Don't get me wrong, I don't think I know it all about this car.. there are many many veterans/professionals/enthusiasts that I could learn more about.. Problem is that it gets barried under crap load of same questions..

Hence having sub-forum 3rd gen section where newbs can't post will reduce the chance of some important questions being barried under. Hope my point is clear??

DGblk93

Guess I'm a newb and I am (for the first time) feeling a little dejected. Herblenny I like your posts and I'll still read 'em in a "newbie read only format"

I think your just salty about something though...

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

An experts or advanced discussion forum would be nice. But, this has ALWAYS been a problem with any discussion medium - hell, we had "newbie/read the faq" fights on the Big List back in the day. Things don't change.

Funny thing is you sometimes need a mix of newbs and "old timers" for a good discussion. Old timers pretty much know all the big stuff, so you get a pretty slow discussion . I've actually learned a few things from newbies over the years - someone tries something different, poses a question in a new way, etc. Rare, but it does happen .

Many large forums have either invitation-only forums or VERY strictly moderated tech talk forums. Wouldn't mind something like that for the FD, especially for developing new ideas.

Dale

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Dale, I completely agree with you.. I'm not saying all newb posts are bad..

And by the way, a lot of things you posted on this forum have been very educational.

This is exactly what I would like to see.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

You're wasting your breath. Bring the newbie bullshit on, Phil!

hanman

Kind of funny to read this post. I am a newbie to FD's. In fact mine isn't even here yet. It's being shipped across the country. But, I have owned an RX7 for 26 years. I now own five of them. Anyway, I am reading alot about the third gen, and finding it much different than the other two gens. But, the humorous part about your post, in an ironical way, is that I just started a thread on the mazspeed site that was very similar in nature. We have watched the amount of posts decrease. Although, we don't have the newbie problem. All the newb's end up on this site. lol It is much more social than mazspeed and mazspeed is much more technical.

I posted on the second gen part of the forum and the first response I received was "search". Well, duh! I have been around long enough to know that. If you don't want to post a reply then just don't reply. I don't know why it's any harder than that. After so many years there really aren't any new questions any more. Just the same old ones over and over again. If they were making new RX7's it would be different, but that's just not the case.

Alcoholic

I don't really think that's a good idea.

I think it would be a much better idea to have that subforum and only give certain members permission to make threads in that forum, but let everybody view and post in it. It's just too easy for a member to come along, see something, think it's interesting, but then have no way of posting in that thread or getting more information, which would just lead to threads about threads in the general section. you would also be blocking people that know what they're talking about from posting because of a low post count or whatever.

another thing that wouldn't hurt is an OG forum for either handpicked members or members that have been here for two years or more or whatever that can't be viewed or posted in by anyone else. i'm a member of another forum that has a hangout like that where everyone allowed is handpicked and it's nice to have......because anything goes and all the noobs like myself (on this forum) are not allowed in hehe.

S4V10R_X

i agree with hanman regarding on that. If there's a generation of revamp RX-7 that is selling in the U.S, i'm sure that the topic on this forum will be much livelier and exciting. Don't forget though is the newbie that keep this car alive and for all those veterans out there, i'm sure that when the first time you got involved with RX-7, you also came across the same question that was asked by newbies today. So before you want to complain about how you feel, please think that you used to be a newbie too, the differents in knowledge between veterans and newbies is the time spending reading those information from the internet or from books. I have no intention to create and anger but i'm just giving my 2 cents, just give it sometime and i'm sure that sooner or later those newbies will be a vet.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

This is why I left the 2nd gen section about a year ago. I still occasionally post there when I root through the BS and see somewhere that I can actually be of help, but usually by the time I click a thread there are 15 replies by FORKING DUMBASSES just saying whatever comes to mind with no rhyme or reason. At a certain point it just became too much for me and I decided it was enough. If someone comes to me and asks for help, and the answer isn't immediately obvious, I will tell them what I know as long as they don't become a pest. But I don't feel I should have to argue with newbies and weed my way through bullshit in order to give free, correct, valuable technical advice.

This section is only about 60% as bad, but is headed in that direction. Within another 1-2 years it'll be just as bad.

Oh, and for you newbies who are saying "oh, you guys were once newbies too, and you had to ask somebody". Not necessarily. About 85% of what I know I learned on my own, through reading books and manuals, or just plain experience...take it apart, put it back together, and see if it works...if not, find out why and do it again until it does. Then you not only know how to fix it, but you know WHY what you did fixed it, which is about 300% more helpful than just saying 'well one time I had XXX problem and I did YYY repair and it fixed it, but I'm not sure why".

My personal rule is that I will only ask if it is a last resort. I want to exhaust all resources at my disposal before asking, including manuals both printed and online, as well as online sites and writeups like what can be found on this forum or on my website tech section. I'll even find pictures of relevant subject matter and study that for ideas on what I am working on. Only after I've spent a day or 2 pondering on something and I still cant come up with what I need, will I ask. Maybe I'm just proud or independent.

You guys will learn and understand so much more if you actually find things out for yourself, versus wanting to be spoon fed every little morsel of information.

Improved FD

actually, RTFM would likely eliminate quite a few newb questions

if you're burned out with the forum, the answer is pretty simple: do something else! let's face it, 95% of the threads are not going to interest you if you have owned this car for several years

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

I hear all this talk about "oh you were a newbie once..." I'm STILL a noob by far, but VERY VERY rarely have I had anyone ever jump at me to search first. Why? Cuz in the first 10 - 15 MINUTES I was on this forum, I saw the same questions being asked, and the veterans (many of which who have stopped posting since then) told them to SEARCH FIRST. I mean c'mon, it doesn't take a neurosurgeon to figure out that on a forum that's been around since '96 (yes, a DECADE), and has an archive dating back to '01 (half a decade) just MAYBE someone's asked the same question I'm about to ask? I mean it's a shot in the dark, but...

The excitement you speak about is real...I remember it, and sometimes still go through it. But the difference is, I contain myself, and remember to use that fancy schmancy "SEARCH" button BEFORE posting a new thread. Do you have ANY IDEA how many times the EXACT same questions have been asked in a matter of DAYS? What's the best BOV? Loudest exhaust? Where can I get parts? Max hp on stock twins? Best 1/4 mile time? Car won't start? How to unflood? Should I go on? And they're ALL answered in the FAQs!

It's funny...cuz I've had guys tell me wow Ramy you know a lot. I was like no I don't...but I'm just one of the few guys who's actually READ the FAQ's and the Owner's Manual, which - I'm sad to say - put me MILES ahead of lots of other noobs. Seriously, there's NO excuse for that. NONE.

Phil, I proposed a Noob section earlier (https://www.rx7club.com/comments-suggestions-archive-222/newbie-section-448471/) and a bunch of ppl were all for it. Many very respectable forums do it, such as DTMPower (which is a high-end forum). Sooo many ppl - including some veterans and "older" noobs like myself are seeing such a noob forum as being not just helpful, but very soon a necessity.

It's not to punish or give noobs a hard time; it's simply an easy way to ensure everyone reads the FAQ's and searches prior to posting...and the mods of that noob section would chime in on things that none of the noobs know. I'm sure Phil and others - myself included - would have no prob helping out the noobs...it would just be so nice to have that noob stuff (the same 10 questions repeated for years) CONTAINED in one section of the forum.

The fact of the matter is, FD's are getting cheaper and cheaper, and they're falling into the hands of not just noobs when it comes to FD's, but noobs when it comes to cars PERIOD. And this is making it very difficult for the forum itself to progress w/ new and innovative ideas for the FD, since the veterans are getting disgusted and disinterested in posting, and those who still do are being exhausting taking care of noobs who are cluttering up the entire 3rd gen section. Something's gotta be done...or pretty soon, the 3rd gen section will be exclusively noobs, with no one left to help 'em. I for one am pretty disheartened at how the forum's taken a turn for the worse over the past year or two...

~Ramy

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Forums are geared to the tastes and needs of it's senior members...that's just how it goes. All you new guys are chiming in saying the same thing, but that's just not how things work in the world...not on other forums, or on ANY other scheme in life. The new guy has to conform and adapt to the PRE-EXISTING environment he's just entered, and it's norms. And if he chooses not to, he's free to leave and go elsewhere. It's that simple really. I went through it, as did tons of other members. But nowadays these new guys don't wanna search, don't wanna learn, and certainly don't even want to show respect or common decency to ppl who have been here YEARS before them. I mean c'mon...we have some members on this forum who have owned their FD and have been active on The Big List (which most of you prob haven't even heard of) before 90% of the noobs even had their driver's license!

~Ramy

Narfle

iTrader: (16)

Hope im helping. Will re-evaluate and not bump lame threads.

Dave

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

There are many forces involved here.

First, the forum owners are clear in that they want this to be a very newbie-friendly place. Policies like locking them out for several posts, not allowing them to start threads immediately, etc can backfire. Any change in policy or structure should really help both newbies and oldies.

Maxima.org is a true recycling center because you can't use the search unless you donate a few bucks, and newbies can't start their own threads. So they hijack anything and everything with dumb questions, and very few people run searches. We don't want that.

I think the best thing anyone who shares the ideas in this thread can do is to let dumb questions alone. Most newbies know they should search but they want instant gratification or personal attention. Even if they get flamed, they get attention. If they get ignored they change their behavior.

I was thinking it would be nice to split into a 3rd gen technical and a 3rd gen discussion forum. So threads showing pics of cars don't bury a question about a car problem. Or, we could get tighter on moving things to the tires/suspension, interior/exterior/audio forums, etc.

Dave

yuichiror

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm still a noob and most of the time it's the noob questions I can help out on. I'll see a question and it'll remind me of a post I saw a few months earlier. I'll do a quick search, find the post and be able to get the thread starter a decent answer. So not only do I get to help out a fellow member, but at the same time I strengthen my personal knowledge on FD's. Sure we get some super basic questions, but there's always someone willing to post RTFM.

Fd3BOOST

iTrader: (7)

Does anyone who know is synthetic oil is better than dino oil?

Seriously though Phil. I hear what you are saying but like Dale mentioned if you eliminate newb posts the forum gets slow because more experienced owners don't have as many questions. I used to feel that was why nopistons 3rd gen forum was slow because most of us there had a fair idea of what we were doing. I don't see that there now as much but you see what I am getting at.

purerx7

iTrader: (61)

I agree with pretty much all the stuff that has been said previously. I have been here for awhile, not as long as some of you, but I have seen threads posted right next to each other about the same topic. This forum really has gone down hill, it seems every day their is some new immature individual who thinks he has the "most badass fd"

Now I know this isnt all newbies, as some actually bump threads from long ago, but than older members rag on them for bumping a thread from the dead? WTF is that about? You tell them to search than rag on them for bumping a thread from a few months ago. I belive you should have atleast 150 200 posts to post in the for sale section, ie supraforums, that way it gets rid alot of scammers. I dont think post counting should count either in the testing area .

If you visist other forums like nsxprime or even the supraforums, the maturity level is much higher than it is here. I feel bad for the members who have been here awhile as they are become very annoyed as well. If we loose our most knowlegable members, then this forum will be useless. It will be newbies giving other newbies advice, yikes!

With the prices of fd's going down, the members are becoming much younger. I paid for my fd myself at age 16 and have always respected it and have looked up to members like Mahjik Damonb fdnewbie and yes even Jimlab. After registration, the ONLY post a newbie should be able to read is the faq, nothing else for three days.

In the end many forums have a newbie section. We should introduce that section and a members ride section. That will clean up the third gen section, most threads are people introducing them selves or posting pictures of their car. That isnt necessary for the third gen section.


I know im not the only one, but have considered permanetly moving to nsxprime or the supraforums, some of the bs that is going on here is becoming ridiculous.

Bryan

Doc-1

iTrader: (2)

Just a thought. I wonder why it is.................At work where I have a hand full of interns. Why is it I insist that they are placed with the old timers which includes me? Putting them off in a corner is more efficient with my time but bad for the group. I have never heard a stupid question just stupid answers. Remember what you are trying to do here. It is not self serving here. It has a purpose.

Ya Ya it is a pain in the *** but it is the best way to involve everyone and keep new ideas where they belong...right out front. Processes almost never produce innovation they produce comfort for those that understand the process. Add as much process as you feel comfortable.

hanman

Just an FYI, this forum is heavily criticized in other forums for how nasty it can get. It's pretty easy to get flamed badly in here for just about anything. (watch me get flamed for this)
A couple of thoughts:
I think forums like this are cyclical or evolutionary. You join with some knowledge (differing levels for different people of course), you progress and learn more to a point somewhere down the road where your knowledge or your desire to learn outpaces the forum itself. At that point you get bored and move on. I have seen it on other sites. And essentially, the site becomes really just a social site to some extent. After all how many questions can you have about your car after five years or more, on the site?

And, what critieria do you have to meet to not be a newb? For example, if Paul Yaw, Rob Golden, or Ari Yallon, or someone liked that joined the forum and had no posts, are they a newb? Would you restrict them to not posting in a tech site that was only for "knowledgeable" people who had a bazillion posts in the lounge? I have very few posts, simply for the same reasons every one in this thread has been talking about. I found my answers without having to post! I have been on this board for many years, but less than a thousand posts. Does that make me a newb?

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I think some of you have missed the point, especially some of you who recently join this forum.

I've helped out many many newbs. I consistantly post here in 3rd gen section to help and I feel that I've made some contributions to the forum. YES, I've been a newb before and for that reason, I continued to help.

I'm also not saying eliminate or prohibit newbs from posting from now on or that I'm going stop helping! I'm just pointing out that subforums where newbs have to have permission or post count to post. It will help sort out some issues we currently facing. It doesn't mean they can't read it, they just can't post it in that particular section of the forum. Most vets on here or Newbs that actually search the forum does this anyhow. Those who wants to learn, don't make a post until its necessary... Like Kevin said..

Keep the general 3rd gen section open to everyone. If vets want to answer questions they see, they can. Just one sub forum dedicated to the vets, ex-7 owners with ton of knowledge, more mature owners who owned several generations of rotary cars, hardcore track drivers, Vendor owners, etc could only post. I Don't think its completely un reasonable thing that I'm asking?? I think It will make everyone happy. Also, its a test to see if it will improve the forum or not.. If not, move all the thread back to general 3rd gen section and get rid of the sub forum..

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

You've made very good points..

I'm proposing for vet section and keeping the general 3rd section un-touched.

If we do this, I think you'll see a lot less flaming.

Regarding to experts who rarely get on. Obviously most of us know who they are. I think it will be easy to find who they are and give them permission out right.

Like you said, those who are mature and willingness to learn, uses search function, get the info they need and don't bump old thread or post another pointless questions. Hence, a vet section and letting newbs read would be just fine.