not sure if it actualy was Skip or not, but a few days prior to PG "releasing" it, there was a few posts under Dave's name on the datalogit group in a topic about octane. no specifics were given, just a "plug" about the "anti-detonation device" and how you can run lower octane with it. next thing you know.... PGunlimited posts up on the site, and opens his mouth only to change feet. now the site is down and he is not selling anymore? JESUS I am confused....

 

Arrrrrrr!

 

Actually in all seriousness.... It's a great animation and very helpful when the idiot who asks "how many cylindars does it have?" comes along. I just pull out the phone and it's much easier than making obscene finger gestures trying to explain it.

And It get's me mad chicks too!

Ok really - back to the anti det thing...

 

has anyone contacted KDR or Skip about any of this at all?

 

How would running without trailing plugs cause leaner AFR's or higher EGT?

 

I have noticed that the A/F ratio is leaner and the EGT's are higher from just installing the plugs. My AFR is around 12.5 and Im running 17lbs of boost.

Jason

 

are the egt's DANGEROUSLY high? does the car feel any different with them in? how so?

paul

 

I am wondering the same thing!

 

so it will indeed raise EGT's.....ditto rotorbrain's query, are they high enough to validate the claim of possible melting of the interior parts?

 

Why would this be?

 

I was wondering the exact same thing...

 

I have an EGT gauge and have been monitoring temps. I noticed they went up a hundred degrees, probably from the leaner mixture. If these plugs do hit the market you are going to really need to tune the car well and not just A/F.

Jason

 

I will test that this week sometime. Im not going to dyno for a few days because our tach is messed up on the dyno and need to get that fixed.

Jason

 

from what they said its not that is causes it to run leaner or high EGTs but that you can tune it to run on higher AFR which then will produce higher EGTs.

 

Not only admittance of using it, unauthorized, but admittance of reverse-engineering the original for sole purpose of replicating it.

Choice.

Anyways..

Higher EGTs and leaner A/Fs after installation? No thanks.

 

More accurately, complete fabrication of the story of reverse-engineering it. Colors, dimensions, and even light sources were identical to Blake's animation. No one reverse-engineers a complex animation that precisely without converting or copying the frames of the original. I wonder who he thought he was fooling with that story after everything else we've (I've) caught him at. I liked the bit about consulting with his fictitious lawyer, though...

 

You know what sucks is he's probably not a bad evil guy. But cmon already - he can atleast admit it was a voodoo attempt at justifying a product.

If Jason's tests show him doing 700 ps @ 14.7:1 A/Fs then I guess we'll all be shutting up about it - but until then...

 

Higher EGTs could likely be due to MORE unburned fuel burning in the exhaust. This might also tweak the O2 reading of the A/F ratio.

EGT and wideband O2 sensors are almost always placed after the turbo. To get a real answer those sensors would need to be placed before the turbo.

Otherwise in my simple mind there is no way that it would lean out the mixture.

 

What octane gas are you using Jason? 92 or higher? lower?

 

First, the cell phone thing is cool! Second, I've said everything I need to say on the copyright issue and Mr. Hyde. My lawyer (a real one; not the imaginary kind) will do the rest of the talking, if necessary. Third, I wanted to speculate on the function (if that's the word) for these plugs....

Way back in 1969, Kenichi Yamamoto documented that the velocity of the gas flow inside the combustion chamber exceeds propagation of the flame front. In other words, if the trailing plugs weren't there, that air/fuel mixture above the minor axis will not burn effectively during the power stroke. Also, keep in mind that the combustion of the air/fuel at the trailing side of the chamber DOES NOT push the rotor backwards. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to take a physical science class. The combustion raises the pressure of the entire chamber. The goal is to have the peak pressure point (PPP) occur at the point of greatest mechanical advantage over the eccentric shaft. Finally, Mazda's Le Mans winning R26B had three plugs per chamber...draw your on conclusions.

Okay, what all this tells me is that the plug (notice I'm not calling it a "device"; a device does something whereas a plug does absolutely nothing) is preventing complete combustion during the power stroke. Why this might actually not be so bad is the same reason running a boosted motor pig rich is not such a bad thing: cooling. Instead of just adding fuel to cool the combustion, you are adding both fuel AND air...just not burning it. So, you can run "leaner" (not really, since the unburned fuel is just accompanied by some purposeless oxygen) and advance the timing. Higher EGTs seem to bear this out as the fuel does eventually burn in the exhaust stroke.

So, is any of this beneficial. Personally, I suspect it is a classic zero sum gain, perhaps even a loss. But perhaps the charge cooling makes up for the lost cylinder pressure in certain situations...I don't know. What I do know is that the "device" is just a plug and simply disconnecting the trailing ignition is probably just as effective.

 

93 octane

 

Is it just me or are these plugs and the theory behind them simply a band-aid for poor tuning or engine build? Now that they aren't even for sale anymore I don't see the point of any of this. PG dug himself a hole from the beginning, I hope he's comfy in it.

Jason, how long do you plan to keep these plugs in?

 

I would have to say I agree. There's something about this just screaming "water injection is a far more effective use of your money".

--jeb

 

I will keep them in for a while and test them. I really want to get it on the dyno and see how it does. That will tell me alot more than just driving around.

Jason

 

Sure water injection is proven but the plugs(if proven) will be overall less complicated and "maybe" cheaper. With these plugs all you have to do is install and tune thats it. With WI there will be maintanence(constant refilling of your reservoir, making sure the nozzles don't clog, mechanical pump failers, leaky hoses, ect). WI works great but it's not bullet proof either. I think the plugs will be a good alternative.