Anti-Det Installed
06-22-04, 05:15 PM
#76
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by matty
maybe it will be, no?...pg released the product/what info he had....not kd.
I havent heard anything from KD yet.
maybe it will be, no?...pg released the product/what info he had....not kd.
I havent heard anything from KD yet.
06-22-04, 05:24 PM
#78
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Actually in all seriousness.... It's a great animation and very helpful when the idiot who asks "how many cylindars does it have?" comes along. I just pull out the phone and it's much easier than making obscene finger gestures trying to explain it.
And It get's me mad chicks too!
Ok really - back to the anti det thing...
And It get's me mad chicks too!
Ok really - back to the anti det thing...
06-22-04, 07:54 PM
#83
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Originally posted by adam c
Jason,
How about testing with the spark plugs in, but not connected. I really don't see how it would be any different.
Jason,
How about testing with the spark plugs in, but not connected. I really don't see how it would be any different.
06-22-04, 08:17 PM
#85
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Originally posted by Jason
I have noticed that the A/F ratio is leaner and the EGT's are higher from just installing the plugs. My AFR is around 12.5 and Im running 17lbs of boost.
Jason
I have noticed that the A/F ratio is leaner and the EGT's are higher from just installing the plugs. My AFR is around 12.5 and Im running 17lbs of boost.
Jason
06-22-04, 09:39 PM
#87
Originally posted by rotorbrain
are the egt's DANGEROUSLY high? does the car feel any different with them in? how so?
paul
are the egt's DANGEROUSLY high? does the car feel any different with them in? how so?
paul
Jason
06-22-04, 09:48 PM
#89
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Originally posted by radkins
How would running without trailing plugs cause leaner AFR's or higher EGT?
How would running without trailing plugs cause leaner AFR's or higher EGT?
06-22-04, 10:06 PM
#90
PV = nRT
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Originally posted by Pg-Unlimited
Fine, fine..... I'll remove the ******* animation from the website. Is everyone happy now? You just can't take the Quicktime movie on his site and save it as a .GIF, unless I missed the boat. I had to create my own source code for this and populate the .gif file which took me two weeks of off and on work in my CAD program.
Thanks,
Steven
Fine, fine..... I'll remove the ******* animation from the website. Is everyone happy now? You just can't take the Quicktime movie on his site and save it as a .GIF, unless I missed the boat. I had to create my own source code for this and populate the .gif file which took me two weeks of off and on work in my CAD program.
Thanks,
Steven
Choice.
Anyways..
Higher EGTs and leaner A/Fs after installation? No thanks.
Last edited by clayne; 06-22-04 at 10:10 PM.
06-22-04, 11:24 PM
#91
Super Snuggles
Originally posted by clayne
Not only admittance of using it, unauthorized, but admittance of reverse-engineering the original...
Not only admittance of using it, unauthorized, but admittance of reverse-engineering the original...
06-22-04, 11:39 PM
#92
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You know what sucks is he's probably not a bad evil guy. But cmon already - he can atleast admit it was a voodoo attempt at justifying a product.
If Jason's tests show him doing 700 ps @ 14.7:1 A/Fs then I guess we'll all be shutting up about it - but until then...
If Jason's tests show him doing 700 ps @ 14.7:1 A/Fs then I guess we'll all be shutting up about it - but until then...
06-22-04, 11:53 PM
#93
Higher EGTs could likely be due to MORE unburned fuel burning in the exhaust. This might also tweak the O2 reading of the A/F ratio.
EGT and wideband O2 sensors are almost always placed after the turbo. To get a real answer those sensors would need to be placed before the turbo.
Otherwise in my simple mind there is no way that it would lean out the mixture.
EGT and wideband O2 sensors are almost always placed after the turbo. To get a real answer those sensors would need to be placed before the turbo.
Otherwise in my simple mind there is no way that it would lean out the mixture.
06-23-04, 01:00 AM
#95
First, the cell phone thing is cool! Second, I've said everything I need to say on the copyright issue and Mr. Hyde. My lawyer (a real one; not the imaginary kind) will do the rest of the talking, if necessary. Third, I wanted to speculate on the function (if that's the word) for these plugs....
Way back in 1969, Kenichi Yamamoto documented that the velocity of the gas flow inside the combustion chamber exceeds propagation of the flame front. In other words, if the trailing plugs weren't there, that air/fuel mixture above the minor axis will not burn effectively during the power stroke. Also, keep in mind that the combustion of the air/fuel at the trailing side of the chamber DOES NOT push the rotor backwards. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to take a physical science class. The combustion raises the pressure of the entire chamber. The goal is to have the peak pressure point (PPP) occur at the point of greatest mechanical advantage over the eccentric shaft. Finally, Mazda's Le Mans winning R26B had three plugs per chamber...draw your on conclusions.
Okay, what all this tells me is that the plug (notice I'm not calling it a "device"; a device does something whereas a plug does absolutely nothing) is preventing complete combustion during the power stroke. Why this might actually not be so bad is the same reason running a boosted motor pig rich is not such a bad thing: cooling. Instead of just adding fuel to cool the combustion, you are adding both fuel AND air...just not burning it. So, you can run "leaner" (not really, since the unburned fuel is just accompanied by some purposeless oxygen) and advance the timing. Higher EGTs seem to bear this out as the fuel does eventually burn in the exhaust stroke.
So, is any of this beneficial. Personally, I suspect it is a classic zero sum gain, perhaps even a loss. But perhaps the charge cooling makes up for the lost cylinder pressure in certain situations...I don't know. What I do know is that the "device" is just a plug and simply disconnecting the trailing ignition is probably just as effective.
Way back in 1969, Kenichi Yamamoto documented that the velocity of the gas flow inside the combustion chamber exceeds propagation of the flame front. In other words, if the trailing plugs weren't there, that air/fuel mixture above the minor axis will not burn effectively during the power stroke. Also, keep in mind that the combustion of the air/fuel at the trailing side of the chamber DOES NOT push the rotor backwards. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to take a physical science class. The combustion raises the pressure of the entire chamber. The goal is to have the peak pressure point (PPP) occur at the point of greatest mechanical advantage over the eccentric shaft. Finally, Mazda's Le Mans winning R26B had three plugs per chamber...draw your on conclusions.
Okay, what all this tells me is that the plug (notice I'm not calling it a "device"; a device does something whereas a plug does absolutely nothing) is preventing complete combustion during the power stroke. Why this might actually not be so bad is the same reason running a boosted motor pig rich is not such a bad thing: cooling. Instead of just adding fuel to cool the combustion, you are adding both fuel AND air...just not burning it. So, you can run "leaner" (not really, since the unburned fuel is just accompanied by some purposeless oxygen) and advance the timing. Higher EGTs seem to bear this out as the fuel does eventually burn in the exhaust stroke.
So, is any of this beneficial. Personally, I suspect it is a classic zero sum gain, perhaps even a loss. But perhaps the charge cooling makes up for the lost cylinder pressure in certain situations...I don't know. What I do know is that the "device" is just a plug and simply disconnecting the trailing ignition is probably just as effective.
06-23-04, 09:00 AM
#97
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Is it just me or are these plugs and the theory behind them simply a band-aid for poor tuning or engine build? Now that they aren't even for sale anymore I don't see the point of any of this. PG dug himself a hole from the beginning, I hope he's comfy in it.
Jason, how long do you plan to keep these plugs in?
Jason, how long do you plan to keep these plugs in?
06-23-04, 09:51 AM
#98
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Originally posted by Blake
So, is any of this beneficial. Personally, I suspect it is a classic zero sum gain, perhaps even a loss. But perhaps the charge cooling makes up for the lost cylinder pressure in certain situations...I don't know. What I do know is that the "device" is just a plug and simply disconnecting the trailing ignition is probably just as effective.
So, is any of this beneficial. Personally, I suspect it is a classic zero sum gain, perhaps even a loss. But perhaps the charge cooling makes up for the lost cylinder pressure in certain situations...I don't know. What I do know is that the "device" is just a plug and simply disconnecting the trailing ignition is probably just as effective.
--jeb
06-23-04, 11:12 AM
#99
Originally posted by jon88se
Is it just me or are these plugs and the theory behind them simply a band-aid for poor tuning or engine build? Now that they aren't even for sale anymore I don't see the point of any of this. PG dug himself a hole from the beginning, I hope he's comfy in it.
Jason, how long do you plan to keep these plugs in?
Is it just me or are these plugs and the theory behind them simply a band-aid for poor tuning or engine build? Now that they aren't even for sale anymore I don't see the point of any of this. PG dug himself a hole from the beginning, I hope he's comfy in it.
Jason, how long do you plan to keep these plugs in?
Jason
06-23-04, 02:48 PM
#100
Originally posted by broken93
"water injection is a far more effective use of your money".
--jeb
"water injection is a far more effective use of your money".
--jeb
Sure water injection is proven but the plugs(if proven) will be overall less complicated and "maybe" cheaper. With these plugs all you have to do is install and tune thats it. With WI there will be maintanence(constant refilling of your reservoir, making sure the nozzles don't clog, mechanical pump failers, leaky hoses, ect). WI works great but it's not bullet proof either. I think the plugs will be a good alternative.