AEM IGN-1A Mercury Marine ignition coil info/install
02-23-13, 10:56 AM
#126
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I also wanted to bring up something interesting I saw on Banzai's site and hopefully he can chime in on this.
On one of his customer cars he has a Microtech LT12 setup on a T2 FC running a HKS twin Power and AEM Dumb coils. Can the Twin power act as a ignitor? Cause I'm pretty sure the Microtech ECU's don't come with built in ignitors.
Banzai Racing (Rossman RX-7 Engine Installation)
On one of his customer cars he has a Microtech LT12 setup on a T2 FC running a HKS twin Power and AEM Dumb coils. Can the Twin power act as a ignitor? Cause I'm pretty sure the Microtech ECU's don't come with built in ignitors.
Banzai Racing (Rossman RX-7 Engine Installation)
02-24-13, 08:21 AM
#127
^
That will work, as the stock the premise of the system is the same as the stock FD system. However, even though I don't know what the amp rating of the HKS Twin-Power is, I'll bet a decent sum that it's no where near where it needs to be to effectively drive the IGN coil. At a minimum I would want 15 amp per coil driver behind that coil. Most stock systems will run around 5 amps. Couple that with the fact that the stock FD twin-post coil is one coil drawing less than 5 amps peak and now you're running two coils that can each easily draw 6 amps, or 12 amps total on the circuit, and you can see where trouble can form.
That will work, as the stock the premise of the system is the same as the stock FD system. However, even though I don't know what the amp rating of the HKS Twin-Power is, I'll bet a decent sum that it's no where near where it needs to be to effectively drive the IGN coil. At a minimum I would want 15 amp per coil driver behind that coil. Most stock systems will run around 5 amps. Couple that with the fact that the stock FD twin-post coil is one coil drawing less than 5 amps peak and now you're running two coils that can each easily draw 6 amps, or 12 amps total on the circuit, and you can see where trouble can form.
02-24-13, 09:34 AM
#128
The HKS Twin Power is not used as an igniter on the car above. The Microtech has an external X4 igniter box.
I have a similar setup with the X6, Twin Power and 6 coils on my 20B.
Both of these use the universal HKS Twin Power that have 6 available ignition outputs, unlike the Rotary type that only has 3. Ignition Amplifiers 93+ RX-7
I have a similar setup with the X6, Twin Power and 6 coils on my 20B.
Both of these use the universal HKS Twin Power that have 6 available ignition outputs, unlike the Rotary type that only has 3. Ignition Amplifiers 93+ RX-7
02-25-13, 06:18 AM
#129
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Ok this will only help guys trying to drive the AEM/ MERCURY dumb coils re a old style dizzy or someone that wants to run 4 coils with out a ECU. You can buy these boxs for $50 AU in Australia. High-Energy Ignition System For Cars, Pt.2 - December 2012 - Silicon Chip Online
03-06-13, 07:12 PM
#136
Yeah, I made the bracket. The wires I bought through SBM but I'm not sure if I would say that they were "off the shelf" or not. They are making two different versions as far as I know, one to fit coils in the stock cruise control location, and one set for mounting on the frame rail. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
03-06-13, 07:26 PM
#137
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I noticed in many of the pictures posted that a lot of you aren't using spark plug wire separators. Unless I'm mistaken, that is highly discouraged as it causes the spark to jump through the wires burning pinholes effectively ruining them.
Also C. Ludwig, how do I order a wiring harness when I purchase the coils on your website?
Also C. Ludwig, how do I order a wiring harness when I purchase the coils on your website?
03-07-13, 03:59 AM
#140
FWIW, I first had an opportunity to work with a car that had these coils installed about 7 years ago. Went back through my records to see the first time that we actually installed a set was in spring 2008. That was on an FD running a Power FC. During those early years we didn't have a good wholesale source for the coils, so LMS wasn't offering them directly. In that time I suggested to many guys looking for upgrades to purchase these coils through other shops that were offering them at the time. When AEM started rebadging them a year or so ago, the coils became available to us, and many others, through AEM's distribution network. For the record, I've been singing the praises of the IGN-1A, what AEM calls smart, coil for no less than 5 years now. It's sad that the Johnny Come Latelys, that are jumping on the bandwagon with these coils, are simply parroting information that has been posted many times on this, and other forums, by those who have been using these coils for years and have already done the work to prove their capability. Nothing is "being developed" here. That was done many years ago and the performance and reliability has been proven many times over.
Also, I've gotten several PMs and emails regarding the use of the HKS Twin Power and other ignition CDI with the IGN-1A coil. As stated earlier in the this thread and probably many other times on the forum, you can't use any other "box" with the IGN-1A coil. You can, as Banzai posted, use them with the IGN (no -1A) or what AEM calls it's dumb coil. The caveat for me is that I do not recommend this combination, for a couple reasons. One, it's simply not needed. The output of the IGN-1A, when run at the dwell settings we recommend, is equal to or superior in terms of mJ output to any street capable CDI system. You'll not get more spark intensity with a CDI, you will only get a shorter spark duration. A lose, lose. Secondly, the IGN coil is wound with a primary intent of being a good inductive coil to be driven by an ignitor, not capacitor. There is a third coils in this family that is dubbed IGN-CD, which is wound specifically for use with a CDI box. The CDI box, coupled with the IGN coil, is not an optimized system. If running CDI is your intent, then you need a CDI specific coil, such as the IGN-CD, to fully optimize the combination. AEM has not chosen to market this coil, so it, like in the days of the IGN-1A before it became known as the AEM smart coil, is largely unknown to the general public. The short answer of all that is this. The IGN-1A, by itself, provides enough ignition energy to handle all but the most extreme needs. There is absolutely no need or benefit for most added CDI or other components in the system. It's simply more cash and more complexity that isn't needed.
Also, I've gotten several PMs and emails regarding the use of the HKS Twin Power and other ignition CDI with the IGN-1A coil. As stated earlier in the this thread and probably many other times on the forum, you can't use any other "box" with the IGN-1A coil. You can, as Banzai posted, use them with the IGN (no -1A) or what AEM calls it's dumb coil. The caveat for me is that I do not recommend this combination, for a couple reasons. One, it's simply not needed. The output of the IGN-1A, when run at the dwell settings we recommend, is equal to or superior in terms of mJ output to any street capable CDI system. You'll not get more spark intensity with a CDI, you will only get a shorter spark duration. A lose, lose. Secondly, the IGN coil is wound with a primary intent of being a good inductive coil to be driven by an ignitor, not capacitor. There is a third coils in this family that is dubbed IGN-CD, which is wound specifically for use with a CDI box. The CDI box, coupled with the IGN coil, is not an optimized system. If running CDI is your intent, then you need a CDI specific coil, such as the IGN-CD, to fully optimize the combination. AEM has not chosen to market this coil, so it, like in the days of the IGN-1A before it became known as the AEM smart coil, is largely unknown to the general public. The short answer of all that is this. The IGN-1A, by itself, provides enough ignition energy to handle all but the most extreme needs. There is absolutely no need or benefit for most added CDI or other components in the system. It's simply more cash and more complexity that isn't needed.
Last edited by RENESISFD; 03-07-13 at 03:16 PM.
03-07-13, 09:41 AM
#141
Not to rain on anyone's Marketing Parade, but in my opinion it is completely unnecessary to install any aftermarket coil set up when running the Power FC. We have made over 600whp on the OEM coils, Twin Power & NGK race plugs negating the need for the over-complication of finding a place to mount and wire up aftermarket coils. It is just a waste of money with another opportunity for installer error. We see it all the time with people relocating their stock coils to the CC area..plug wires arcing off the hood or brake lines is very common.
Microtech, Haltech, etc that have more than 3 ignition outputs...install any coil you want.
Microtech, Haltech, etc that have more than 3 ignition outputs...install any coil you want.
03-07-13, 11:46 AM
#142
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^ How is it a waste of money?
The 4 IGN-1A coils are CHEAPER than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils And you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
The 4 IGN-1A coils are CHEAPER than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils And you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
03-07-13, 01:17 PM
#143
Rotary Enthusiast
^ How is it a waste of money?
The 4 IGN-1A coils are CHEAPER than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils And you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
The 4 IGN-1A coils are CHEAPER than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils And you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
would rather a better ignition for the same if not less than the twinpower.
where does the cost come in on the harness? is it the connector or the labor?
03-07-13, 02:29 PM
#144
Yeah, I made the bracket. The wires I bought through SBM but I'm not sure if I would say that they were "off the shelf" or not. They are making two different versions as far as I know, one to fit coils in the stock cruise control location, and one set for mounting on the frame rail. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
03-07-13, 03:43 PM
#145
In the harnesses we build, about 1/3 of the cost is materials. The cost has gone up since the first ones, but so has the quality of material. All wire is now 22759/16 mil-spec wire. We've upgraded the relay to a fully sealed unit. And we're now using the connector to eliminate any splicing.
03-07-13, 03:50 PM
#146
In the harnesses we build, about 1/3 of the cost is materials. The cost has gone up since the first ones, but so has the quality of material. All wire is now 22759/16 mil-spec wire. We've upgraded the relay to a fully sealed unit. And we're now using the connector to eliminate any splicing.
And for a quality product, made in the US, there has to be reasonable compensation for the person's time and knowledge.
Keep making high quality products! :-)
03-07-13, 05:46 PM
#147
^ how is it a waste of money?
The 4 ign-1a coils are cheaper than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils and you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
The 4 ign-1a coils are cheaper than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils and you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
+1.
03-08-13, 05:06 AM
#148
^ How is it a waste of money?
The 4 IGN-1A coils are CHEAPER than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils And you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
The 4 IGN-1A coils are CHEAPER than just the twinpower. Factor in the cost of low mileage coils And you are at about $450.00 for the ignition system.
Buy the coils and make a mount and buy the harness and you are at about the same cost, for what is arguably a better more powerful setup that has more readily available parts.
I have yet to see any real data that says these coils perform better than a prooven HKS/OEM setup. No waveforms of any kind, just a few guys saying these are "stronger". Not even a before and after dyno sheet, which would not mean much anyway.
99% of people out there should NEVER touch their car's wiring, not even to install a stereo, never mind ignition coils. I have seen more speaker wire and duct tape on Haltech and Microtech installations then I care to talk about.
Anyone can install an HKS Twin Power in 20 min or less, NO custom bracket required, NO relocation of the coils, NO removing the upper intake, NO custom plug wires, No opportunity for ignition failure due to installer error. The Twin Power is far CHEAPER in the long run.
As someone else already posted, we do use the AEM "dumb" coils to replace the Bosch units that some people have purchased with their Microtechs, even with these we have wired in a HKS Twin Power. We have had seen good results with cars over 400whp.
For the PFC just stick with the Twin Power, no reason to complicate things when there is no benefit. Anyone that wants to install these coils go right ahead, as I already said, this is my OPINION. If you want to drink the Kool-aid there are people willing to sell it to you for a profit.
Last edited by Banzai-Racing; 03-08-13 at 05:15 AM.
03-08-13, 06:06 AM
#149
talking head
You can "argue" for these coils all you want. Everyone knows you have these coils, what most don't know is that you have a Haltech which is a completely different installation to a Power FC. What I do not understand is why you push them on people that have a different EMS than you.
the mercury coil when in a 4 coil installation is for COP sequential ignition .. and demands that the ecu can accommodate this..
lets get this straight ... the OEM and PFC installations CANNOT cater for genuine sequential operation.. even with s4/5 trailing coil toggle trick or not
hooking an OEM ecu or a PFC to 4 mercury coils involves doubling up on an igniter ( bad ) or a trigger,, and brings no advantage of extra avail dwell period .. the mercury coil will just have to be happy with 3.5 ms or less that can be fed at high rpms
yes the PFC can make good power
.. BUT there is a point ( with rpm ) where having a wasted spark ignition system can fall short
/// and the HKS twin power is a capacitor / CDI conversion to bandaid the HEI system that previously works so well down low.. to work better up top
those wanting to make power with boost at revs higher than 9000 rpm have that CDI option..it does have some hidden drawbacks.. namely a shorter spark duration. which is less desirable down low
.. OR
.. they can continue to have that long duration HEI spark .. and have plenty of avail dwell period to spare at revs .. by going for an ECU that can actually handle a sequential ignition and installing 4 sequentially triggered coils
.. for which this thread was intended to highlight one of the better COP options
not every one needs 4 coils .. not every one needs a CDI .. there is a point however where you need to make the decision for either
IMO a clever man would choose the newer, faster ecu that can do so much more while running four coils .. and especially because it brings a new loom for the important stuff
i would hope the educated people who would have arrived at similar decision will have gone beyond twitching speaker wire with scotch tape
Last edited by bumpstart; 03-08-13 at 06:22 AM.
03-08-13, 11:57 AM
#150
I would like to buy a harness for the Marine Coils from C. Ludwig in the near future to match a Haltech Sprint RE in my STARXQUEST, the length of the wiring harness should be around the same as a FD car's with the battery in the trunk.. They seem very well manufactured and worth the price.. It is a no brainer
on the independent coil packs over a twin power with stock coils..
on the independent coil packs over a twin power with stock coils..
