provels

Good day, longtime member, not much poster! I need a little advice from automatic owners on my '94 with 27K miles.

Going to try a drain/refill on my '94 with filter change. Decided on Valvoline Dex/Merc and bought a couple gallons. Can anyone tell me if that would be enough for a couple drain/refills to refresh the fluid? No too sure how much will drop the first time. Figure I'll just measure how much comes out and replace with same. I'll never understand why they don't just put drain plugs on transmissions. There are spreadsheet calculators available that will tell me just how much of the original ATF will be replaced by 2-3 drain/refills. I had thought about buying a vacuum extractor, but I'd really have not much use for it after this job.

I was thinking about just leaving the old filter/gasket combo in place if the gasket survives the initial disassembly until the final flush. Any thoughts on that? I would like to have a new filter/gasket on hand in case it doesn't, though.

Also, I've been looking for filter/gasket kits and find 3rd party (ATP B-353 and PTC F-159) for $20-30 or OEM for over $100. What think?

Thanks for reading and appreciate any replies and advice.

Peder

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Well, you have stumped me - this is one thing I know NOTHING about, I never have even considered what's involved on an ATF change on an auto FD!

Hope someone can chime in with some input!

I think the aftermarket kits are most likely fine, I have a feeling they aren't super complicated parts.

Dale

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Replace the gasket and filter. The reason they don't put drain plugs on most transmission pans is to force you to drop the pan and change the filter. We use Idemitsu Type M in the shop for fluid. I want to say they take 7 quarts for a service but that may also include the converter. I'd start with 4 and add from there as needed.
Gasket BV60-19-835
Filter BV65-19-815A

provels

Thanks for the replies. After seeing the auction results at Mazda RX-7 FD For Sale - BaT Auctions (bringatrailer.com), I figured I'd better take care of my baby.

This gorgeous 1994 Mazda RX-7 FD Touring just sold for $70,000, setting new record | Hagerty Media

provels

Well, FWIW, I bought the NAPA kit Part #: ATP 1-9775 which they said is an exact fit for the FD. Problem is, the pickup is about 1" long on the NAPA part rather than 2" long on the Mazda part. Sigh. So went to return, said they had the right part available, though not on the website. New part number is 1-8578. We'll see. Odd that the drawing in the service manual shows a drawing that represents the filter with what appears to be a 1" pickup, but maybe that's just a generic diagram for the Jatco. Also, when I drained the trans, I got slightly more than 8 quarts out. Service manual says 9.1 qt. from dry, pan should be 4 qt. Go figure.
To be continued.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

Your hunch about the drawing is correct, it's not drawn to exact scale. Something tells me they might have given you a filter for a 3.0L MPV as most parts sources list the same filter for both despite the differences you've found out firsthand. Strangely enough, my usual go-to (Rock Auto) doesn't list an ATP brand filter for the FD. Also, the part number does not match ATP's typical format, I have one of their filters on my E38 740i.

So I hopped over to their site and they list two different ones here:
https://atpautomotive.com/vaf/produc...76&engine=2093

B-324 has the longer intake tube, while B-353 appears to have the correct gasket.

Also, I happen to notice that the gasket in your picture is made of Cork. BMW used a cork gasket on the M70 V12 engine oil pan, which is notorious for leaking as a result. Also, ATP's typical included gaskets are kinda crappy. The one included with my E38's transmission filter leaked from the second it met fluid, dripping down every bolt head. Rock Auto was kind enough to refund me on the matter, but I was still left with a leak. Ended up making a gasket from scratch out of Fel-pro #3157 gasket material. Same stuff I used on Project OldTree's throttle body and turbos. It's ~$9 at any parts store. #3137 is the same material, just a bigger 18x36" sheet of it, $8 at most parts stores.

During install, I did things slightly differently due to the new gasket being thicker and more compressible than the stock BMW gasket was. When cutting out the gasket, I made the bolt holes smaller than stock, and threaded each one in so the bolts stay in place. Install goes a TON easier when the hardware stays put. Second, each bolt got a washer for additional clamping area on each bolt, and to prevent the bolt head from digging into the pan no matter what. Last, I increased the torque from ~8 ft.lbs to 11 ft.lbs and used anti-seize due to dissimilar metals (Stainless steel bolt in aluminum case). The extra torque is due to the new gasket needing to be compressed more than the old one, in order to make a proper seal. All of these factors made the reinstall easier, less annoying and still bone dry on the outside more than a year later.

Might not be a bad idea to add a drain bung since the pan will be off anyway. Makes any future maintenance a lot less messy and aggravating. Always better to have a few small spots on the garage floor vs "painting" yourself red from it. Just don't wear tan/khaki pants when draining it, those red stains don't come out.

provels

Don't know for sure, but I think in this case ATP is just a part of NAPA's numbering system. I saw their products when shopping, but the prices were so low that it made me wonder. Probably should have just bought the OE parts from Mazda or Atkins, and maybe still will. Factory gasket is a very thin composition synthetic piece and the filter would have been correct. Threads in this case had red threadlocker on them and are supposed to be replaced when disassembled. Very likely this will be the only time I change, since the car has less than 2K miles on it in the 11 years I've owned it and was probably never changed since '94. Actually, the filter and pan showed so little debris that I could probably backflush the filter with solvent and reuse. The owner's/service manuals don't even list an interval for ATF replacement. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

its just wire screen, so you can clean it. use the Mazda gasket, it works. BV60-19-835

provels

Thanks for the research. To me, the filters have the same length pickup. I think I'll be happy if they send me a re-labeled B-353. I like the thin gasket. If they don't, I think I'll just go to the dealer and get an OE gasket and reuse the filter. I washed it out and it looks very clean.

SETaylor

iTrader: (4)

Be careful not to warp the transmission pan when lowering it, as it has a lot of weight on it with the fluids in it. It may be beneficial to place something under it to support it.
You will make a huge mess if you're not careful, just like I did

provels

The deed is done. I just kept loosening screws a bit at a time starting at one corner, letting the ATF drain a bit at a time, but still a little mess. By the time I was down to the last screws, I could hold it one handed. But not as bad as when I pulled the engine/trans out of my old Vette and drained about 2 gallons out the tailshaft...

Still don't understand how I got 8 qts. out. I am more than certain I had checked the trans level several times in the period I've owned it. As long as I'm waiting for parts, I think I'll disconnect the cooler lines, too, to see what comes out. Thanks for the reply!

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

If it gets on your pants, just say it's your girl's time of the month...

If it's a steel pan, they're not too difficult to correct. After one T-20 torx bolt stripped on my 740i's transmission pan, removal involved a dremel and vise grips to cut and bend the pan's reinforcing lip out of the way to get vise grips onto the bolt head. Correcting this required a bit of Planishing, using a known flat surface such as the garage floor, 3/8" socket extension and a hammer. Chase around the whole perimeter in this manner until it doesn't rock anymore and it'll be as good as new.

provels

Finally received the filter kit from NAPA. I would guess it is the ATP B-353 kit relabeled. Same size box, thin gasket, long pickup tube, not flat packed like the previous one. I ended up reusing the OE filter, cleaned, with a new O-ring and the gasket. Undersized holes in the gasket were convenient in that I could thread the bolts into the gasket, hold the pan with one hand and driver in other. All torqued with my handy $10 HF wrench. I've got about 8.5 quarts of ATF in there and just touching "low" on stick. I used high-mileage Dex/Merc more for the seal age than miles. Throwing the other new filter on EBay as I'll never be changing again. Thanks for all the replies.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

Glad you got it sorted out. As you were doing this, I just discovered a source for the Q4A-EL's filter in the 20b Cosmo by accident.

The R4A-EL is also known as JATCO RE4R01, also found on the Z32 non-turbo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatco_4R01_transmission
Series 7/8 FDs use the RB4A-EL (Jatco RE4R01B), a revised version of the 4R01. Per the Japanese FD Manuals (Yes, I can read Japanese...), the specs and maintenance procedures are the same for both versions.

That got me thinking about the Q4A-EL, and how it's basically an "upgraded" version of the R4A-EL. Zero'ed in on the Z32 Turbo Automatic, and found this page here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jatco_4R03_transmission

Nomenclature pattern matches up, and those gear ratios looked familiar. So I pulled up the Cosmo Workshop Manual. Bingo, perfect match. Found a picture of both filters, and they're identical. So I added the info to Wikipedia for all to see. Add a little Rock Auto magic, and now we have 20B Transmission filter kits for under $20, right after Mazda said they were No Longer Available. Just tell them it's a 96+ Z32 Turbo or Infiniti Q45 and you're good to go.

And the fluid? Good ol' Dexron II or M-III, just like the FC and FD.