They make the Prius... Driven mostly only by car hating hippies who only use a car because they have to or some disillusioned fool thinking they are "making a difference".

Regarding the Prius - Anyone living in California will tell you different. I just moved here and have never seen so many so there's more to it that what you've stated. There are so many on the road here because it works in this road environment with small commutes, stop-n-go traffic, and high gas prices (due to state tax). They aren't being driven by people who just want to make a difference - they're driving it because it's a good commuter car that gets great gas mileage and since it's a hybrid you don't have to put up the the "all electric" charger rage some are experiencing due to limited plug-in stations ..

 

Thanks for replying so I can hate on the Prius and the same people who drive them and support CAFE regulations....
Present company excluded of course lol

Ok, you save at the pump. I drove a 90 Honda CRX for years and it got nearly the same gas mileage almost 25 years ago. I didn't need to come home and plug it in and run up my electric bill. Making the power company burn more fossil fuels instead.

I also didn't have some huge caustic battery that I had to worry about replacing out of warranty or dumping in some landfill somewhere.

Sure I know they may work in your environment and because of high taxes and other Govt punitive punishments for just trying to get to your job so you can pay your bills and raise a family...

It's not fixing the problem it's only creating villains out of normal folks who want to pursue happiness in this country.

I am bucking the trend because it leads to fleets of these cars which do not represent why people fall in love with an automobile in the first place. Truth is its not even necessary.

Moral of this story is Govt regulation have far reaching unintended consequences and negative impact on It's own efforts that it would blow your mind. But I will save that for another thread one day.

Ok end of rant

 

Hold up their, chief. Not everyone who wants 4 or 500 hp drives like a douche in and out of traffic. There are those who haul *** on an empty road, in sparsely populated areas, and there are those who track. Doesn't make them a douche; actually, it makes them a true enthusiast, unlike the poseurs who drive a sports car to be seen.
Same reasoning applies to high-dollar cars. See GTR, ZR1, 911 , etc sales. Not only that, but by building said cars it most likely improves sales for their lower-dollar offerings.
Simple answer: it was the best total package for the money, by far. A 2 door S2000, if you will; with a few traits the droptop didn't offer.
Which, for the reasons stated in my previous post, relegates a rotary sports car to a 2nd or 3rd car, at which point a small drop in fuel mileage by going from an anemic N/A 2 rotor to a blown 3 rotor makes total sense.
So every enthusiast on here lobbying for an evolution of the FD is in the "wrong state of mind"? While you, in the right state, keep presenting such an overpowering business case for a competitor to the lamewad mobiles in the mid 20s are in the right? Ok.
They're not only unlikely to make both, but there may never be another rotary without some sort of hybrid tech, sadly.
Having owned a 2nd gen many years back, and driving an 8 for the better part of a decade qualifies me to say that to not turbocharge a rotary, especially a twin, is one of the biggest wastes in autodom. Take one out, attempt to redline 4th gear, count "one mississippi, two mississippi . . ." as the speedo s l o w l y clicks each mph tick above 100, then check the gas mileage when you get back, and tell me you wouldn't rather see a 20% decline in mpg for a car that's twice as fast. That's not hostility, rather it's a no-brainer.

 

Hey Zoomzoom, interesting posts. Though you don't come right out and say it, I agree with you that the authoritarians (read: leftists, along with moderates) appear to have succeeded in slowly legislating the sports car as we know it out of existence.

In order to avoid the huge red tape in producing a car(s) that most of us desire, what do you make of the idea of Mazda selling a "kit car", say a 96" wheelbase/3 rotor turbo/2650 lb without a front clip. Where you're buying something like the mom & pop companies, and "assembling" the rest after purchase?

 

Evo Magazine's latest track battle – Toyota GT86/FR-S vs Mazda MX-5 BBR (turbo):
That's how you do it, Mazda.

 

I appreciate you seeing my point. Unfortunately the Sports car we imagine is the most difficult for car manufacturers to build and profit from because its a low volume car and does exactly the opposite of what Govt regulations promote. Enthusiasts be damned.

While we look at car companies differently then other companies; they are in fact the same as any business that has a sole purpose of generating revenue from the manufacturing and sales of a product.

Now they market their product the best way they can by using what drives a consumer to buy a product.
In the case of an automobile they sell performance, image, status, fun, excitement, efficiency, reliability or whatever they think will sell to their target market.

The companies make whatever they can profit from. If they didnt, they wouldn't be in business very long.

Case in point. When the minivan craze arrived every company jumped onboard and started trying to grab market share. Its not exactly an exciting car. Same thing with the SUV.
The trend brought every company out of the woodwork making real and faux SUV's.

Follow the money and you will find where a company will put its R&D.

Perception is a funny thing though. Its why its a tough sell to certain enthusiasts to buy a car from a company without pedigree.

Its how companies like Merc, BMW etc are selling entry level models and doing it successfully. Its not really a better car for the money but they sell the hell out of them.

So now we have come full circle. Why build a car you cannot make any money on? Why even bother if its a forgone conclusion you will lose money on that "Halo" model.

Because then consumer buys into this marketing of status and pedigree and it does improve the image of the company overall.

Its why I said from the start that its the only possible reason Mazda would consider reviving the RX-7.
I think part of the problem is the power plant got so much bad publicity that the image is tarnished to the point it may not benefit the brand overall at this stage.

Think of all the magazines at press time asking the question over and over about its previous failures and will this be another botched attempt...
That would be ugly for Mazda.

If that is the case then no point in a lose, lose, lose situation.

Sorry for the long responses but I think its important to understand the realities of the market and business as a whole to see the likely hood of the futility of it all for Mazda.

 

Ug. OK.

I've owned a Prius (I don't anymore), it's a great car. Anything that is going to get better REAL WORLD mileage is a little tin can piece of **** (or maybe a deisel, which doesn't qualify in my book because the costs/availability are different). The Prius (even the original), is a real, comfortable, surprisingly powerful car that comfortably seats 4-5 adults.

If you're feeling like a "villain" for not driving one (or just driving something that you know is grossly inefficient), that's your own guilt at play. Don't make it out to be the fault of other people—or twist the incentives into your "punishment".

You don't plug it in (or mine you didn't), so it doesn't use fossil fuels from the power company. It recycles wasted kinetic energy. Like a turbo.

Lastly, their are plenty of Prius battery recyclers and restorers out there. Just like there are for cell phone batteries, laptop batteries, etc. Rechargeable batteries aren't exactly a new phenomenon.

 

Toyota does have an identity crisis. just google the "average age of a toyota buyer" and you'll find that its 62. i didn't look at what cadillac is, but a few years ago, the average toyota buyer was older.

so toyota does have an identity crisis, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Project_Genesis
so i suppose the new camry "isn't your fathers oldsmobile?"

 

Toyota does have an identity crisis

I think marketing has an impact on this apparent identity crisis as well.

I am convinced "Youth brands" like Scion and supposedly youth oriented marketing are actually aimed at the aging boomers (in their 60s) who want to feel/appear younger (and coincidentally have the money to spend).

I see mainly old people driving these cars in my area...

 

How is my opposition to Gas Guzzler taxes as a punitive measure for driving a car not efficient to some liberal government standard make me feel guilt on the matter?

May I say your characterization of any Tax used in such a way to be called an "incentive" to drive a car the Govt would prefer anything other then a bullying Tactic?

Its all stick and no carrot.

I have some news people.
No one knows what's best for me and my family then I do.

If you want to go save the world, environment, poor, etc then join a religious organization, Peace organization, or environmental group like Green Peace.

But do us all a favor and stay the hell out of everyone else's lives. We don't share your values and personal convictions.

 

Every time I pull up besides a frbr-s-z I find a 50+ dude behind the wheel.

 

^ Hmm... here I see chicks and dudes in their 20s.

 

So, WTF is wrong with 50+ year old dudes driving sports cars?

 

Chicks ZE? Pics or it didn't happen. North side is mostly 20 somethings. While I'm in my mid 30s, I do love the car. I look at it as an RX8 that doesn't drive you crazy. But, like the RX8 it lacks decent power and I decided to by something else.

On a side note, anyone want an RX8? I'm sick of chasing CELs and Mazdas corner cutting on things like the transmission, coils, fuel pump, cat, starter, etc. Bad seals are only 1 of 1000 reason RX8s die.

 

same here. they are everywhere

 

In my area, it's all about the domestics. Challengers, Mustangs, and Camaros. I hardly ever see a Brz.

 

nothing at all, however there are a few guidelines.

1. if you are more than 40" in diameter, have a grey beard, shop at tommy bahama, and wear hats, you need a corvette.

2. if you are a skinny f*%k, dress business casual, whatever that means, and work in the financial industry, than you must have a porsche. if you're over 60, than it needs to be a cayenne. your daily driver is a mercedes. its ok to try a lexus, you'll miss your mechanic so much, you'll buy the next S class.

3. you have a hot blonde GF/wife, you dress in matching drivers suits, you need a Ferrari. IF you go to the track you may use the words "that's impossible i was driving the Ferrari". your "rain" car can be a new 911 turbo.

4. you are eccentric. you drive a miata. you think they should call it a miazda. you have a hat that says "miata" and it matches the color of the car. you blast steely dan.

honorable mentions; nobody over 50 owns a lambo, Jaguar doesn't make a sports car, its a "sports car", bmw's are for a-holes....

all in fun, but based on real life people

 

? I'm sick of chasing CELs and Mazdas corner cutting on things like the transmission, coils, fuel pump, cat, starter, etc. Bad seals are only 1 of 1000 reason RX8s die.[/QUOTE]

I hate to say it but I somewhat agree with you. There're problems with the rx7 and the rx8. The rotary engine isn't to blame its the Mazda rotary that's the problem. If there was just one other company competing in the rotary market I'm sure the roatary would be far more developed and reliable than it is today.

The rotary is very reliable preformance that can compete on the highest level but for some reason it takes real enthusiast to pick up the slack of mazdas engineers.

 

Go to Chinatown Hell I was in Hong Kong this whole January and I saw chicks driving Lambo, Ferrari and... FRS.

There's a 50+ yr old guy here drives an Aventador, and his wife has a Gallardo.

 

I like that classic BMW joke:

Q: What is the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?
A: Porcupines have ****** on the outside.

I have noticed, broadly speaking, that BMW drivers are gigantic ******** on the roads in my area. Mercedes drivers are clueless and downright dangerous (rich old ladies), and Toyota drivers are right behind them.

Stereotypes all, but sometimes true.

 

This is hilarious. Blasting Steely Dan. So true.

 

So why then when you see we are in a hurry don't you get out of our F'n way?

Kidding aside I know why BMW drivers are driving like A-holes.

When we got our first BMW it always felt like we were driving incredibly slow even when going 85-90 on the highway.
I have driven high end cars from Lamborghini's to Z06's to FD's with full race setups and the BMW feels like it's going slow.

So when everyone is driving around at speed limits if frustrates you and you want to get around them.
Because it feels like you are crawling.

Then if someone is in fast lane pacing the car to their right and never getting over... Well there ya have it. My reasoning behind why BMW drivers are ******.

 

I think some BMWs are good cars, but the BMW drivers here are a bit too aggressive.

Speeding at 40 over, passing in the right lane, cutting people off, and changing lanes without signalling are normal for Beemers here, God's gift to the road.

Jokes aside, I love the BMW Z8 and the E46 M3 CSL (but not the SMG transmission). They're not like FDs, but I think we're allowed to like other cars

I just picked up this month's bonus edition of Racer Magazine. It's kind of like a glossy Chrysler SRT brochure, but I'm excited about the new SRT Viper's potential on the track. It's going up against some big guns (the Stingray is also going to be a monster) – let's see if they can last through a season of competitive endurance races.

Also, I read that F1 is using TERS (Thermal Energy Recovery System) turbos this year and I wonder if we'll be able to retrofit these along with KERS brakes on our RX-7s someday.

 

i don't know that guy! as an aside, what does he think her and hers lambo's project as an image?

 

lol, i bought a BMW a few years ago, and on the drive home i felt like i had joined a club, and everyone else in it was, well i didn't like them. it was really weird.

toyota drivers are worse though, i get in the car to go somewhere. the average toyota driver seems to just be in the car for no reason at all, they are just there.