j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

that is a good point actually, as GM did three generations of corvette AND went bankrupt, AND came back...

gives a different perspective on "financially viable" or "they need to make a profit" doesn't it. although GM's bankruptcy isn't very typical

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

...or Mazda could license their design to some aftermarket companies who could continue to develop the technology

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

To be fair, GM is a much larger company that can absorb a "pet" project like this one better than Mazda, but still, the difference is ASTOUNDING, and look what it's doing for their (Chevy) brand and the trickle down to cars like the Camaro, which is going to be $75k for the top model.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i'm honestly not sure they can sell their rights since they do not already own the patent, they already paid for the rights to use it but i do not know if one can put a patent on a design based off of an original patent.

basically mazda does not own the rotary engine, many others have built very similar designs based off of mazda's proven design. including one such company located in davis, california.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

if The new RX7 has a world class suspension , with a light weight body . Like the FD did or even the rx8 , with a RELIABLE 2 rotor putting out maybe 280 hp . as an intro version , and a 3 rotor TOP OF THE LINE 80k Version competing with the vette for power I think it can be done.. aslong as the Suspension dynamics which mazda is famous for . combine that with a RELIABLE engine people can beat on day and night . at 8k rpms all day . and you have a winner.

fbse7en

Your post is drain-bamage inducing to say the very least. Did you know that RX is literally short for: ROTARY EXPERIMENT?!?! So Rx-Rotary sounds completely ridiculous. Anyone who knows anything about Mazda knows the RX badge/emblem specifically denotes that the vehicle is powered by a rotary engine.

Lastly the engine in the Furai was NOT a 4 rotor, it was 3 rotor, (20B) built by Racing Beat.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I just love it when someone comes in and starts throwing around insults over the internet. It's idiotic of you to assume that I didn't know that. It's also idiotic of you to think that every person that's familiar with Mazda to know what Rx means. Go over to the rx8 forum and ask them of what they though Rx meant before they bought their 8's. The name was a thought that popped in my head as I was typing the post. Plus I've been in the rotary game for 20+ years and have a 20b fd that I've built, tuned, and painted myself so I know exactly what's in the Furai. That still doesn't mean that a version of that vehicle couldn't have been built with a 4 rotor. My attempt was to show a full range of rotary offerings under its own brand. I guess you missed that Einstein because your obvious mission was to just come here, nit pick someone's generalized post, and make yourself feel good for the day.

fbse7en

I did not imply ownership = knowing. I'm VERY aware of Rx owners that are completely ignorant of their cars powerplant, they do not KNOW anything about Mazda.


I may have come across a lil harsh, my bad on that.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

right, calling someone a dumbshit and then saying "my bad"...

i don't know what the CX stands for in the CX9, or what the MX stands for in the MX6, most people probably don't either. maybe mazda should come up with actual names for once.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

"Your post is brain damage inducing to say the least". And you think that's a "lil harsh? Untill you said that, I didn't even know what drain bamage was till I looked it up. It was very infuriating to read the translation. Just understand that there are a bunch of grownups on these forums. This isn't ign were you have nothing but childish post. Respect means alot to some so don't put yourself in a position that you loose it all in one post.

rogan

iTrader: (7)

RX=rotary export

fbse7en

What's ign?

MisterX

The base model, with that power, would have to be priced accordingly (i.e. it won't sell for $40 or 45K, unless to a select few like the Elise); which would then mean the $80K version of the same car shares the underpinnings of the cheap ($30K-ish?), younger brother. That's precisely why platform sharing cheapens the expensive of the two models (e.g. $22K Accord vs $70K RLX) and would not be attractive to those wanting - justifiably so - a 70 or 80 thousand dollar car that is unique and individual.

In short, the RX-7 needs to be either:

A) significantly upmarket (a la NSX & GTR), but need not necessarily be priced like them.

or
B) back down to where the FC was (BRZ, MX-5). IMO, a very dumb move considering that the FD had already moved beyond that both in price and performance.

It cannot play in both segments utilizing the same car.

fbse7en

Honestly, "B" is the only chance they have. The media loves to blast the same-old-song-and-dance anti-rotary propaganda every chance they get. A $70k Rx-7 wouldn't stand a chance.

"B" is also what the Rx-7 was originally all about: The most bang for the buck on the market. A return to the basics, the roots, is all Mazda needs to do. Especially if it weighs in lighter than a BR-Z/FR-S, w/more power and better handling!! It'd be no-brainer for anyone in the market!

ZDan

Totally agree! Keep it simple, keep it small, keep it lightweight. That is what I want in a sports car, even if price weren't an object. But this approach also will minimize cost and price and be accessible to a MUCH broader market.

The market already has a Corvette. Why duplicate it? Give the market something it hasn't seen in a LONG time: An accessible, small, lightweight, speedy (i.e., much quicker/faster than Miata or FR-S/BRZ), razor-sharp-handling, dedicated closed-roof coupe 2-seater sports car, for reasonable $$$.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

It aacctually stands for Rotary Sport .. but thats a whole nother bag of this and thats ..

I personally like Rotary Experiment better ..

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

mm Sorry i think in RWHP terms . I guess I was thinking somewhere around 330 HP . which is still not all that impressive since a stock FD with boltons makes 300 WHP . but we all know rotary love to breath add in some emissions / cat delete . and you make a gain In Power Which is more then that of most piston engines . But 280 concidering all the emissions equipment isnt that bad .

I'd compare it to something like the 370z . and the top of the line version With better sport suspension , a 3 rotor , wider tires bigger brakes some aero to keep the car planted . some more use of ligther materials like CF for a 20k more pricetag . maybe 65k . You have a supercar for 65k ... I dont think thats to bad. you will undercut the vette , and other companies BUT have a car capable of keeping up and being up there with them . if a 2 rotor 16x is capable of 300 hp , Then a 3 rotor should make 450 ?? NA version 450 with a light weight car you have something special maybe if they can push that 450 to 500 .... with emissions delete ..

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Agreed, Mazda can't come out of the box at $70k. That's too much of a leap. They're back in the "C5" phase—build credibility.

A base 370Z is $30k. The Nismo version is $43k. A base Corvette is $51. I'd say, that's your universe. I think you "back down" any more than that, and you cheapen the RX7 brand. You need to call that an RX5 or something.

Remember though, "Light" and "simple" doesn't necessarily mean cheap anymore—as we've talked about, modern crash/equipment standards mean that if you're truly going to build something LIGHT with world class razor sharp handling, that, too, will cost money for advanced techniques and materials.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

I just dont think there is anything wrong with having a base version . the lotus has the exiege The second Gen had the turbo 2 . Mazda has had their mazda speed versions . of everything from the mazda speed 3 , to the Miata ,to the Mazda speed 6 .. no reason a mazda speed rx7 with an extra rotor cant be in there LOL .

ofcourse a turbo version.... is a possibility But I dont think they will wanna go that route .. vs the more reliable NA versions .

ZDan

It doesn't *necessarily*, but generally it is true. Plot MSRP vs. weight and you'll see a very distinct relationship! With outliers like the Lotus Elise/Exige and the new Alfa 4C, and also heavy-but-cheap cars like the Mustang and Camaro.

Not really. If you keep minimizing size and weight primary design objectives from the get-go, you *can* design and build a reasonably lightweight rwd sports car that meets all requirements using conventional materials and manufacturing. To wit: Miata, FR-S/BRZ.

BUT, yeah, if you want 450hp, 19" wheels, 285 tires, 15" brakes, etc. etc. etc, those are all going to jack the cost and weight way up by themselves, and will also drive up cost and weight of the rest of the vehicle. You'll end up with a Japanese rotary-engined Corvette, maybe at 3100 lb. vs. 3400 lb., optimistically, that costs at least $45k.

I think that's a bad move and wouldn't work, but anyway such a car doesn't really appeal to me for a street car anyway.

For *me*, even cost-no-object, I'd rather have a ~250hp 2-rotor base car with 16" (17" option) wheels and 225 (245 option) tires, weighing more like 2600 lb. And such a car could be done for ~$30-35k.

MosesX605

The (will never be released because Mazda is run by a bean-counter) new RX-7 shouldn't and wouldn't have 'world-class razor-sharp handling.'

It could (but won't) be the following:

A light, cheap, underpowered two-door coupe with a nice tossable chassis, a detuned 16X rotary at or around 200 HP that retails in the $26k range, so as to compete with the BR-Z, the Genesis Coupe and the V6 Camaro.

You know, like the most successful RX-7 generation. The one that actually sold well, performed well in its segment, was durable, reliable, etc.

But it's all academic anyhow. The rotary is dead. Mazda will never build another one.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

What I'd like:

250 hp NA 16X 2300 lbs coupe Miata RX-5 (or as option engine for the MX-5!). FR-S/BRZ price range

320 hp NA 16X 2600 lbs RX-7. 370Z price

450 hp 3-rotor NA 24X 2650 lbs Mazdaspeed RX-7. Nismo 370Z price

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

an online gaming forum, the largest in fact(well used to be anyways, don't know anymore since it's been at least 10 years since i logged in there).

RCCAZ 1

iTrader: (10)

Is anyone loving the new Toyota FT-1 concept? For me, it's too confusing and seems like a lot of weird design influences converging. The headlights look too GM EV1/Oldsmobile Aurora-ish for me. Looks like you melded an Enzo with an EV1. Weird....

If Mazda makes it happen, I just want them to load the last Gen FD (2002 vintage) into their CAD software as a starting point, then modify body panels based on their latest "design language" but it should be easily identifiable as the next step in the RX-7 lineage, not a complete diversion like the FT-1.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

I like the craziness LOL But I still rather have my FD.. of course specs are not out yet so who knows whats powering that thing