How to value your FD
The issue; as we all know after reading these ads, is the way those RHD cars have been treated. Usually owned by young people who drive them hard but don't do the maintenance. Poor winter storage conditions, shoddy rebuilds, cheap "go faster/be louder" Ebay parts.....it's a real minefield and does nothing to help the perception of RHD vehicles and unfortunately further damages the reputation of rotary engines.
I mean seriously when an ad for a FD (or any car for that matter) starts with this:
"No rush to sell! Recently purchased and just lost my license".
It does not instill much confidence.....
I mean seriously when an ad for a FD (or any car for that matter) starts with this:
"No rush to sell! Recently purchased and just lost my license".
It does not instill much confidence.....
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0931/overview/
Just noticed that I may know this car. The listing picture shows the garage of the seller who I bought my VR R2 from. Current owner bought it for 18k AFIK.
If it's the car I think it is there are some issues and a good reason it sold for 18k.
Passenger side took hit and lots of paint work. The entire car may be repainted. Also there is some avg type rust on the under carriage or this isn't your typical garaged FD.
If it's the car I think it is the price is about 15k too high.
Maybe someone else can chime in on this one. Bottomline: buyer beware may apply
Just noticed that I may know this car. The listing picture shows the garage of the seller who I bought my VR R2 from. Current owner bought it for 18k AFIK.
If it's the car I think it is there are some issues and a good reason it sold for 18k.
Passenger side took hit and lots of paint work. The entire car may be repainted. Also there is some avg type rust on the under carriage or this isn't your typical garaged FD.
If it's the car I think it is the price is about 15k too high.
Maybe someone else can chime in on this one. Bottomline: buyer beware may apply
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; Jul 30, 2017 at 11:35 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
The FD market is ON FIRE!!!!
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
The FD market is ON FIRE!!!!
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
So glad I got my CW on black RX7 with that same mileage (though not in as nice condition as the red one on ebay) for $15k a year ago.
Seems like people are starting to get over the rotary reliability stigma. Like I said earlier, these cars are way undervalued. Glad to see market adjusting.
I got my '95 montego blue with tan, 49,500 miles (mentioned earlier in this thread) for $20,500 back in March on Bring a Trailer. Of course I put a ton of money into it already just to pay a shop to do needed maintenance (all rubber hoses under the hood for example). It's good to know that when it comes time to sell it I can get a lot of that money back, rather than dumping money into a depreciating vehicle.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
The FD market is ON FIRE!!!!
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
In the interim if anyone sees an FD sell, has a decent idea of the selling price (not just a guess or list price) and would like to discuss the value please post it up
PS Some interesting comments about sales prices, offers and values were made in my WTB ad:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...paint-1117098/
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; Aug 12, 2017 at 09:43 AM.
Recovering Miataholic
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 50
From: Fountain Valley, CA
Seems to me like a market for the "average" FD must be quite small... maybe enthusiasts only? And FD enthusiasts to boot. Even when we bought our car brand new in Sept. '94, it had been sitting in the Mazda dealer's garage, not in their showroom.
The window sticker (attached) lists the car at $38,415 as you can see. But the fleet sales manager at a different Mazda dealer (whom we knew from buying my Miata from him in 1989) made a "dealer trade" which got us the car for $29152, + $2261.99 tax, $35 document charge, and $725 service contract. Out-of-pocket was $32832.99. I have no idea what the (original) dealer paid wholesale for the car, but we seem to have bought it for a $9,263 "discount."
It's really hard to judge the true value of our car now that we just dumped over $13K into it for a new engine and turbos. The car has about 113K on it, but the engine/turbosystem/wire harness etc. is currently at about 100 miles.
I think the "easy" thing for us is just keep it and quit trying to "value" it!
The window sticker (attached) lists the car at $38,415 as you can see. But the fleet sales manager at a different Mazda dealer (whom we knew from buying my Miata from him in 1989) made a "dealer trade" which got us the car for $29152, + $2261.99 tax, $35 document charge, and $725 service contract. Out-of-pocket was $32832.99. I have no idea what the (original) dealer paid wholesale for the car, but we seem to have bought it for a $9,263 "discount."
It's really hard to judge the true value of our car now that we just dumped over $13K into it for a new engine and turbos. The car has about 113K on it, but the engine/turbosystem/wire harness etc. is currently at about 100 miles.
I think the "easy" thing for us is just keep it and quit trying to "value" it!
Last edited by wstrohm; Aug 14, 2017 at 05:46 PM.
Seems to me like a market for the "average" FD must be quite small... maybe enthusiasts only? And FD enthusiasts to boot. Even when we bought our car brand new in Sept. '94, it had been sitting in the Mazda dealer's garage, not in their showroom.
The window sticker (attached) lists the car at $38,415 as you can see. But the fleet sales manager at a different Mazda dealer (whom we knew from buying my Miata from him in 1989) made a "dealer trade" which got us the car for $29152, + $2261.99 tax, $35 document charge, and $725 service contract. Out-of-pocket was $32832.99. I have no idea what the (original) dealer paid wholesale for the car, but we seem to have bought it for a $9,263 "discount."
It's really hard to judge the true value of our car now that we just dumped over $13K into it for a new engine and turbos. The car has about 113K on it, but the engine/turbosystem is currently at about 100 miles.
I think the "easy" thing for us is just keep it and quit trying to "value" it!
The window sticker (attached) lists the car at $38,415 as you can see. But the fleet sales manager at a different Mazda dealer (whom we knew from buying my Miata from him in 1989) made a "dealer trade" which got us the car for $29152, + $2261.99 tax, $35 document charge, and $725 service contract. Out-of-pocket was $32832.99. I have no idea what the (original) dealer paid wholesale for the car, but we seem to have bought it for a $9,263 "discount."
It's really hard to judge the true value of our car now that we just dumped over $13K into it for a new engine and turbos. The car has about 113K on it, but the engine/turbosystem is currently at about 100 miles.
I think the "easy" thing for us is just keep it and quit trying to "value" it!
The past couple BAT auctions have been down for red 93's. But, independent sales continue to report from $25-$30k and Fritz moved a few in that ballpark, no problem.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Seems to me like a market for the "average" FD must be quite small... maybe enthusiasts only? And FD enthusiasts to boot. Even when we bought our car brand new in Sept. '94, it had been sitting in the Mazda dealer's garage, not in their showroom.
The window sticker (attached) lists the car at $38,415 as you can see. But the fleet sales manager at a different Mazda dealer (whom we knew from buying my Miata from him in 1989) made a "dealer trade" which got us the car for $29152, + $2261.99 tax, $35 document charge, and $725 service contract. Out-of-pocket was $32832.99. I have no idea what the (original) dealer paid wholesale for the car, but we seem to have bought it for a $9,263 "discount."
It's really hard to judge the true value of our car now that we just dumped over $13K into it for a new engine and turbos. The car has about 113K on it, but the engine/turbosystem is currently at about 100 miles.
I think the "easy" thing for us is just keep it and quit trying to "value" it!
The window sticker (attached) lists the car at $38,415 as you can see. But the fleet sales manager at a different Mazda dealer (whom we knew from buying my Miata from him in 1989) made a "dealer trade" which got us the car for $29152, + $2261.99 tax, $35 document charge, and $725 service contract. Out-of-pocket was $32832.99. I have no idea what the (original) dealer paid wholesale for the car, but we seem to have bought it for a $9,263 "discount."
It's really hard to judge the true value of our car now that we just dumped over $13K into it for a new engine and turbos. The car has about 113K on it, but the engine/turbosystem is currently at about 100 miles.
I think the "easy" thing for us is just keep it and quit trying to "value" it!
Coincidentally the last white FD I bought was sold for 26,500. It had been sitting on the dealer lot for over a year and people kept vandalizing it so the dealer finally caved on the buyers offer. Like yours it had a 38k or so sticker.
The tan interior was probably a cool thing back then. They weren't easy to sell with a 32k sticker and then the dollar dropped and the sticker shock along with other things kicked in. The FD just wasn't meant to be a mass production car in the US.
You've likely gotten lots of enjoyment out of your car and that's what's important. Show me a 30k car that can give you the same joy. I don't know of one but I guess you could argue for many; the c5, 350z, cayman etc..... BUT To me the FD is just the perfect sports car.
If you spend the money to keep it running in tip top condition it's a super fun car to drive
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; Aug 13, 2017 at 09:47 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
With the white, and the recent rebuild. I'd say you could hold out for approaching $30k. The high season is almost out. These things sell best just a tick into summer.
The past couple BAT auctions have been down for red 93's. But, independent sales continue to report from $25-$30k and Fritz moved a few in that ballpark, no problem.
The past couple BAT auctions have been down for red 93's. But, independent sales continue to report from $25-$30k and Fritz moved a few in that ballpark, no problem.
30k or more is no longer a shocking price for the FD. It's definitely a sellers market. Just 2 or 3 years ago that would be a very hard price to get for even a super clean silver R2 with low miles. How do I know? Because I almost bought one for 28 that had 8k miles on it that sold to a dealer on ebay for the same price. The dealer then sold it for 32k 6 months later.
I believe that same car would sell today fairly fast for 40k which tells all of us just how crazy this market really is. Is it moving too fast too soon? I think so which is why I'm a buyer and a seller or I'm not holding if I can avoid it.
I seriously believe the world economy is in major trouble not to mention the weird political environment. This isn't a stable world
PS I also live in charlottesville VA a town which isn't exactly having a good weekend so I'm a little pessimistic today LOL
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; Aug 13, 2017 at 10:26 AM.
Upping the Game
Time for a new thread or new title? How about "Why you shouldn't sell your FD for less than $25,000 in today's market".
Meanwhile at Yesterdays meet:
He came and parked beside me, I swear!
[P.S. the coolant leak marks where there from before.]
Meanwhile at Yesterdays meet:
He came and parked beside me, I swear!
[P.S. the coolant leak marks where there from before.]
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Time for a new thread or new title? How about "Why you shouldn't sell your FD for less than $25,000 in today's market".
Meanwhile at Yesterdays meet:
Attachment 725410
Attachment 725411
He came and parked beside me, I swear!
[P.S. the coolant leak marks where there from before.]
Meanwhile at Yesterdays meet:
Attachment 725410
Attachment 725411
He came and parked beside me, I swear!
[P.S. the coolant leak marks where there from before.]
BUT 25k is still a tough price to reach for most FDs
PS I totally believe that because he knows your car will gather a crowd
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Fritz... You say this often and I wonder if you'd give some explanation as to why you think the world economy is in major trouble? The 4 little PIGS have always been in trouble and Russia is and has been weak and may weaken further. China remains a powerhouse even if their growth rate were to slow considerably. Western Europe seems stable. And the US is finally rebounding after the vapid growth of the prior 8 years. So, where do you see major problems or do you just have a bad feeling of some sort?
When I see 66 percent employment I'll say the economy is doing OK.
When my insurance deductible isn't 10k plus or more like the normal 2500 max I'll say the economy is doing OK. With those type deductibles I suspect we will see even more health care related bankruptcies on the horizon. Gas prices are a joke compared to the health insurance problem. Speaking of which thank god they are still at historical lows and likely won't move higher anytime soon. However wait until they do, interest rates normalize, more and more people are dependent on the government, medicare (the baby boomers) etc.... talk about a perfect storm.
World, US, state, and local DEBT and silly low interest rates........not much to say about it other than HOLY F#CK it's a real problem LOL
So NO I don't think our economy or the world economy is doing well.
I think amazon, tesla, netflix, apple, caterpillar........ and on and on are doing well cough cough for now but those stocks are carrying the market which is a serious house of cards. Could the majority of successful big growth companies like amazon start trading at 400 times earnings (can you say melt up), like a dot com start up, sure but I'm hoping at some point common sense overcomes greed and our stock market comes back down to reality. YES like everyone else I own apple, but I also just got back into ABX LOL. I think late this winter will be another good time for gold so I'm moving back in
IF our employment was a healthy 65 percent or more, our GDP was 6 percent, interest rates were normal or say 5 percent and we didn't have government debt I could justify the us market trading at the current high PEs but as is it doesn't make economic sense.
Currently our sense of hope is so jacked that if a company does a little better than expected or doesn't loose quite as much money etc... the stock market reacts like a home run was just hit....... this **** isn't normal/healthy.
When japan artificially lowered rates and stimulated the economy it worked awesome until the market went down 50 percent plus and stayed there for 10 years before recovering somewhat. Not saying that could happen here but I'm also saying I don't have that loving feeling either and I'm shocked when I here people talk about how great the economy is doing.
LOL.............. say that to the majority of americans who are living paycheck to paycheck or on the government dole for some reason or another. AND this is with both mom and dad working 40 plus hours a week
Half of American families are living paycheck to paycheck - MarketWatch
The FD market is ON FIRE!!!!
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
1995 Mazda RX-7 | eBay
This is by far the best sellers market I've seen since owning these cars.
I know a guy who recently sold his not so low miles (I forget how many but I can find out if you like), 94 white touring, glass sunroof, rear wiper, stock bodied (except for nice wheels), GT35R FD, for $24K WITH a BLOWN engine...
Last edited by Montego; Aug 14, 2017 at 12:44 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
1) We never had and won't have 6% GDP. I will be happy with 3-4% growth and think we are on the bottom end of that right now.
2) I think you mean 66% "Labor Force Participation Rate" and not employment. The LFPR has in fact been moving up a bit from the abysmal Obama years and we've seen a little growth finally in wages.
3) The Fed has moved rates up 25 bps twice this year and will do it again in December. The 10 year Treasury has historically been just under 6% and last year hit a low of 1.37%. This year its low was around 2.2% and it is going up as it needs to.
4) Obama added $10 Trillion of debt and that's a problem. However, the Fed is starting to pay it down.
5) The stock market is not a good sign for how the economy is doing whether it's up or down, although its a better thing that its up, since people will invest more in new businesses and capital investments.
New business start ups have increased dramatically and that's where a majority of new hiring comes from.
The energy companies have been given a free hand and deregulated. More hiring and continued lower gas and fuel oil costs and lower trade imbalance (less oil imported and some exported)
Lower regulations is helping all businesses and if we could get rid of Obamacare, that would help even more. (Not only would individual costs go down, so would business costs.)
Be of good faith. You really don't need to be scared as far as the broad economy goes. That said, I wouldn't be surprised at some market corrections.
2) I think you mean 66% "Labor Force Participation Rate" and not employment. The LFPR has in fact been moving up a bit from the abysmal Obama years and we've seen a little growth finally in wages.
3) The Fed has moved rates up 25 bps twice this year and will do it again in December. The 10 year Treasury has historically been just under 6% and last year hit a low of 1.37%. This year its low was around 2.2% and it is going up as it needs to.
4) Obama added $10 Trillion of debt and that's a problem. However, the Fed is starting to pay it down.
5) The stock market is not a good sign for how the economy is doing whether it's up or down, although its a better thing that its up, since people will invest more in new businesses and capital investments.
New business start ups have increased dramatically and that's where a majority of new hiring comes from.
The energy companies have been given a free hand and deregulated. More hiring and continued lower gas and fuel oil costs and lower trade imbalance (less oil imported and some exported)
Lower regulations is helping all businesses and if we could get rid of Obamacare, that would help even more. (Not only would individual costs go down, so would business costs.)
Be of good faith. You really don't need to be scared as far as the broad economy goes. That said, I wouldn't be surprised at some market corrections.
I just can't help but look at the forest which is a world economy based upon low interest debt. Not to mentioned certain leaders who keep me up at night (figuratively LOL).
A falling middle class and or the majority of young people living paycheck to paycheck. Sure some folks got a small pay increase after 10 years of not even keeping up with inflation etc....
Maybe Trump can continue to deregulate, lower taxes, fix health care etc.... and everything will be awesome but I for one am not holding my breath.
I'm also not panicking or buying guns and ammo and stocking a bomb shelter like some LOL.
PS some more forest non tree type info: Census: More Americans 18-to-34 Now Live With Parents Than With Spouse
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
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From: Charlottesville VA 22901
The flatter this graph is the more worried I get LOL
Notice when it flattens out starting in the early eighties it could be because the gov is becoming a little too involved in fixing the economy. Notice the big spikes are DOWN! I expect a flat graph along with a BIG down spike in the next 5 years or the trend to continue.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
Notice when it flattens out starting in the early eighties it could be because the gov is becoming a little too involved in fixing the economy. Notice the big spikes are DOWN! I expect a flat graph along with a BIG down spike in the next 5 years or the trend to continue.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
On Fire... I think we're past that and starting to go nuclear...
I know a guy who recently sold his not so low miles (I forget how many but I can find out if you like), 94 white touring, glass sunroof, rear wiper, stock bodied (except for nice wheels), GT35R FD, for $24K WITH a BLOWN engine...
I know a guy who recently sold his not so low miles (I forget how many but I can find out if you like), 94 white touring, glass sunroof, rear wiper, stock bodied (except for nice wheels), GT35R FD, for $24K WITH a BLOWN engine...
Back to topic.
Kid in our group says he just sold his 92 rhd for c$17,000. Buyer is a private dealer intending to sell to the us. Sales price is likely Close to auction prices in Japan adjusted for import cost. The price level would indicate a perhaps 80 % jump since 2015 for equivalent car.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Kid in our group says he just sold his 92 rhd for c$17,000. Buyer is a private dealer intending to sell to the us. Sales price is likely Close to auction prices in Japan adjusted for import cost. The price level would indicate a perhaps 80 % jump since 2015 for equivalent car.
On nice cars here in the states I think we've seen a 25 percent jump this year alone. Or a 25k car last year is selling for 30k this year.
What's becoming more and more important is year, color, sunroof vs not.
The most difficult FD/least valuable is a 93 VR/tan touring and 93 MB/tan touring.
The most sought after FD is without question a 95 CW base. If anyone is selling please let me know
Mark up to Market
Kid in our group says he just sold his 92 rhd for c$17,000. Buyer is a private dealer intending to sell to the us. Sales price is likely Close to auction prices in Japan adjusted for import cost. The price level would indicate a perhaps 80 % jump since 2015 for equivalent car.
If the broker is paying C$17,000 here what is his target selling price?
C$17,000
Province Sales Tax (5%): $850
Transport to US West: $1000
VI/Documentaiton (?) at destination: $1000.
Total before margin: C$19,850.
Target margin (25%?):C$4962
Target selling price: C$24,802
In US$ (divide by 1.30): US$19,078.
The broker seems to be happy and he/she looking for other cars here.
Last edited by Redbul; Aug 15, 2017 at 02:49 PM. Reason: spelling