Window relay mod using 451m's!
09-30-15, 08:02 PM
#76
MECP Certified Installer
Thread Starter
I suggest warming the vinegar on the stove for a minute or in the microwave. You want it to be McDonalds coffee hot and then dip it.
09-30-15, 11:30 PM
#77
10-01-15, 05:51 PM
#81
MECP Certified Installer
Thread Starter
10-01-15, 06:04 PM
#82
MECP Certified Installer
Thread Starter
Today at work, it was slow and if I dont have cars to work on I am not making any money so I decided to do something productive.
I took apart my original switch that failed and went at it. It's in much better shape than the parts car switch I bought and that is in the car now (and starting to fail). Used 400 grit sand paper to clean up all of the contacts and got the switch resistance down to 0.2 ohms an all contacts. Not bad I shall say.
I did have to put it back together, check with DMM, and take back apart a few times to get the desired result.
Pro Tip: The contacts have a silver coating on the bottom of them where they contact the pads. This is a good thing so when cleaning them up, try not to go all the way through the silver coating unless you absolutely have to. This is why I had to take it apart and put it back together a few times because I was trying to not go through the silver and as a result, didn't need to sand it down so far as to be down to the copper.
I took apart my original switch that failed and went at it. It's in much better shape than the parts car switch I bought and that is in the car now (and starting to fail). Used 400 grit sand paper to clean up all of the contacts and got the switch resistance down to 0.2 ohms an all contacts. Not bad I shall say.
I did have to put it back together, check with DMM, and take back apart a few times to get the desired result.
Pro Tip: The contacts have a silver coating on the bottom of them where they contact the pads. This is a good thing so when cleaning them up, try not to go all the way through the silver coating unless you absolutely have to. This is why I had to take it apart and put it back together a few times because I was trying to not go through the silver and as a result, didn't need to sand it down so far as to be down to the copper.
10-07-15, 05:19 PM
#83
Okay cleaned the switch contact points for the master and plugged it in and began testing with a voltmeter on the passenger side.
Red/white - gets power ONLY on switch window roll up
Green/white -gets power ONLY on switch window roll down
Black/blue - has power with ignition.
Now this is the weird part. Passenger window motor wire Red/Black has power when the switch is pressed up or down and power window motor wire Green/black for the motor also has power when the switch is pressed down or up. This is on the passengers side. They do not have power when you are not pressing on the switch.
The driver's side works fine but the passengers side does not work. Is my relay fucked up on the passengers side? Did I wire something wrong, ground wires? Wiring is setup properly. Would like to note that this relay was brand new but it was making clicking noises when I bought it and the other one DOES not do that. Wondering if the relay came fucked?
The other thing I noticed the voltmeter was reading super low too. Like 4 volts. It should be way higher than that. The driver window was reading at 10-12 volts when rolling it down or up.
Red/white - gets power ONLY on switch window roll up
Green/white -gets power ONLY on switch window roll down
Black/blue - has power with ignition.
Now this is the weird part. Passenger window motor wire Red/Black has power when the switch is pressed up or down and power window motor wire Green/black for the motor also has power when the switch is pressed down or up. This is on the passengers side. They do not have power when you are not pressing on the switch.
The driver's side works fine but the passengers side does not work. Is my relay fucked up on the passengers side? Did I wire something wrong, ground wires? Wiring is setup properly. Would like to note that this relay was brand new but it was making clicking noises when I bought it and the other one DOES not do that. Wondering if the relay came fucked?
The other thing I noticed the voltmeter was reading super low too. Like 4 volts. It should be way higher than that. The driver window was reading at 10-12 volts when rolling it down or up.
Last edited by astrum; 10-07-15 at 10:39 PM.
10-07-15, 11:07 PM
#85
10-08-15, 08:44 AM
#86
i believe if you wire the relays into the driver door then the power is still moving through the switch first, which is why it is better to not skimp and put the relay in the passenger door. it however has been a while since i really paid attention to the wiring or thought of how a relay mod would operate here, so i could be wrong in remembering it.
10-08-15, 09:31 AM
#87
MECP Certified Installer
Thread Starter
i believe if you wire the relays into the driver door then the power is still moving through the switch first, which is why it is better to not skimp and put the relay in the passenger door. it however has been a while since i really paid attention to the wiring or thought of how a relay mod would operate here, so i could be wrong in remembering it.
I did both in the driver door because I never have passengers nor use the passenger side switch.
10-08-15, 11:36 AM
#88
I have one relay in the driver door and one in the passenger door. I am just going to buy a brand new switch.
10-09-15, 08:42 PM
#89
JJ can you show you measured the master switch for the passenger side, using a volt meter, to show how I can tell if the contacts are good to go.
10-10-15, 06:40 AM
#90
MECP Certified Installer
Thread Starter
With the switch unplugged, measure the resistance between Green/White and Black/Blue. Then do the same for Red/White and Black/Red.
Should be less than 0.5 ohms.
Should be less than 0.5 ohms.
10-10-15, 02:31 PM
#91
10-10-15, 06:31 PM
#92
Okay new master switch, new passenger switch and everything is quadruple checked on the wiring now. New relays on driver and passenger side. I unplugged the motor on the passenger side and noticed that the correct wire at the motor harness was getting 12 volts and the other was getting 0 when the switch was pressed down and visa versa when pulling up.
I then plugged the motor back into the switch and then again noticed that the voltage at the motor harness dropped down to 4 volts and that each wire was hot regardless of if the switch was pressed up or down. Is the motor on the passenger's side messed up? The driver's side does not read like that, when I press down on the switch the "down" wire reads hot, and the "up"wire reads ground and visa versa.
The one weird thing though is I can move the motor up and down through the motor's harness with just some wires hooked up to my battery. So it doesn't seem broken?
I then plugged the motor back into the switch and then again noticed that the voltage at the motor harness dropped down to 4 volts and that each wire was hot regardless of if the switch was pressed up or down. Is the motor on the passenger's side messed up? The driver's side does not read like that, when I press down on the switch the "down" wire reads hot, and the "up"wire reads ground and visa versa.
The one weird thing though is I can move the motor up and down through the motor's harness with just some wires hooked up to my battery. So it doesn't seem broken?
Last edited by astrum; 10-10-15 at 06:51 PM.
10-11-15, 07:18 PM
#93
MECP Certified Installer
Thread Starter
That's a "non-dead" short somewhere.
Hate to be like I am at work but I'd have to see the car to answer your question.
(Dead short means , no resistance short to ground. Non-dead means there is enough resistance in the short to create a current draw and voltage drop, but not dead short and pop a fuse)
Hate to be like I am at work but I'd have to see the car to answer your question.
(Dead short means , no resistance short to ground. Non-dead means there is enough resistance in the short to create a current draw and voltage drop, but not dead short and pop a fuse)
10-11-15, 07:34 PM
#94
or extremely high resistance causing the voltage to bleed off before making it to the end of the line. pretty common in these cars with their poorly designed wiring harnesses and overworked relays.
i would check the wiring diagram and follow the passenger side main power wire back to where the voltage starts to hemorrhage, while the circuit is loaded of course.
i would check the wiring diagram and follow the passenger side main power wire back to where the voltage starts to hemorrhage, while the circuit is loaded of course.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-11-15 at 07:39 PM.
10-13-15, 07:01 PM
#95
So deleted the passenger side relay and everything works. Going to buy another and rewire it and see. I always thought it was the relay because of the loud clicking. It was so loud I could hear it through the door panel. I'll try again and see. My hypothesis though is it was the relay.
11-05-15, 01:32 PM
#96
i ordered a few more factory plugs to make plug n play kits for sale, for those who don't want to hack up their harnesses or worry about screwing things up. plugs right in, no cutting, welding or superglue required.
i've been using these relays in my car for years and haven't had any issues.
only made the one for the driver's door, for now. 'cause if they don't sell i don't wanna be sitting on a pile of them. i have 9 available to gauge interest.
i've been using these relays in my car for years and haven't had any issues.
only made the one for the driver's door, for now. 'cause if they don't sell i don't wanna be sitting on a pile of them. i have 9 available to gauge interest.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-05-15 at 01:46 PM.
11-05-15, 02:11 PM
#97
i ordered a few more factory plugs to make plug n play kits for sale, for those who don't want to hack up their harnesses or worry about screwing things up. plugs right in, no cutting, welding or superglue required.
i've been using these relays in my car for years and haven't had any issues.
only made the one for the driver's door, for now. 'cause if they don't sell i don't wanna be sitting on a pile of them. i have 9 available to gauge interest.
i've been using these relays in my car for years and haven't had any issues.
only made the one for the driver's door, for now. 'cause if they don't sell i don't wanna be sitting on a pile of them. i have 9 available to gauge interest.
What do you anticipate sell price to be for a single door and a two door kit?
The following users liked this post:
streetport 7 (03-17-22)
11-05-15, 03:06 PM
#98
yeah it plugs right into the car, the hardest part is wedging the relays into the driver door so unscrewing the bottom 4 screws holding the armrest in is the most time consuming part of installation. the hole through the armrest for the wiring is just a little small to fiddle with without a little help by pulling the armrest away from the door a little bit. a single relay for each side would likely make installation a 30 second affair, since the 2 relays in the driver door does take a little cramming, but i doubt most people will want to pay what i want for the complete 2 door kit.
i have them on ebay for $80(with shipping) for just the driver door, doing both would be about $130-140 since the plugs are specialty parts and making these harnesses is a little time consuming. the driver relay for example took about 1.5 hours to build the initial one pictured above. the driver relay protects the driver switch for both windows, it however doesn't protect the passenger switch if you have someone riding shotgun who is ADHD with their switch. if i mass produced them the price would be cheaper, but i am severely pessimistic that that won't happen(most stuff just winds up collecting dust), so... but who knows, people have been known to pay more than that for a window switch that still is only a temporary fix.
i would sell them here but vendorship is no longer worth the $75/month charge to me, that's how much i pay ebay per month in final value fees alone and i have 10 times the exposure there. so the price is a little higher to reflect the additional cost incurred. raising prices to sell here wouldn't really work, FC owners are after all, cheap.
it is more or less for the less adept at wiring, for those who don't like chopping up their car, or those who have more money than time. the test car took about 2 minutes to install and test it on so people won't have to sit in their driveway with their door panel off and their wire cutters, crimpers, yadda yadda for a few hours hoping they didn't screw something up. this thread already outlines the job for the DIYer.
these days, just about every FC with power windows could really use this mod performed. i know i personally cleaned my damn window switch about 20 times before i wanted to beat it with a sledge hammer. i rebuilt the regulator(driver side) and the thing worked like new and should for another 20 years. you don't realize how important the windows are until they quit working on you.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-05-15 at 03:46 PM.
11-05-15, 06:57 PM
#99
i ordered a few more factory plugs to make plug n play kits for sale, for those who don't want to hack up their harnesses or worry about screwing things up. plugs right in, no cutting, welding or superglue required.
i've been using these relays in my car for years and haven't had any issues.
only made the one for the driver's door, for now. 'cause if they don't sell i don't wanna be sitting on a pile of them. i have 9 available to gauge interest.
i've been using these relays in my car for years and haven't had any issues.
only made the one for the driver's door, for now. 'cause if they don't sell i don't wanna be sitting on a pile of them. i have 9 available to gauge interest.
