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Sounds good. Well, tonight I will do one thing at a time. I'm going to zero the CAS out while cranking. Whatever the engine wants it at, I'm leaving it at that this time. From there, I will try and start it with starting fluid to see if it fires. If it does, I will play with the fuel maps.
If I can't get it to start on its own by then, I'm going to call Haltech on Thursday for assistance. I just want the damn thing running.
The plus side to all this downtime is I've fixed all the oil and coolant leaks, custom routed my wiring, and generally got a lot of small crap done. So, silver lining somewhere I suppose.
Re-installed HalwinX and the drivers for my serial to USB cable. Finally got it to connect again. Loaded the map that had it running previously, CAS settings of 65 and 11, and disabled the injectors while my gf sprayed starter fluid in it. Fired up immediately. I enabled the injectors and it started by itself once but wouldn't idle and died. Subsequent cranking and the car wouldn't without hitting the throttle.
This makes me wonder if my fueling needs to be upped majorly on cranking due to the massive amount of airflow immediately entering the engine.
Originally Posted by Fuhnortoner
Disable the injectors and try to start the car with starter fluid. If that works then you know fuel is likely your problem.
Will do. This whole experience has been confusing. Everything was working until I tried to make corrections. Then it all goes to crap.
I'm thinking the recent temperature drop has to be part of the issue. I can only assume the base map was more than likely not set up with 40 degrees in mind.
Doesn't the ignition timing have to be set in accordance with the fuel to properly to start the car? That's why I was focused on zeroing the timing properly while cranking. Also, is having the timing locked while cranking affecting it's ability to start?
Originally Posted by Fuhnortoner
Stupid question, but its good to go back and check basic ****. have you verified injector wiring is correct? Have you verified spark wires are correct?
I highly doubt any of the timing issues are coming from the engine itself due to the fact that you said timing was dead on with the stock ECU. (edit: unless you did something after you installed the E6X like incorrectly stab the CAS.)
Are you sure you are stabbing it at the right timing mark?
Last edited by FührerTüner; Nov 23, 2015 at 10:42 AM.
Lol. Forgot about that. And DEEZ NUTZ! I don't really celebrate holidays mannnnn. Work all day erry day.
In regards to stabbing the cas, yes I've stabbed it per factory specifications. And injector wiring is correct. The car ran last week so something got changed the car didn't like.
As for learning, that's definitely true. I can swap a stock 13b into an e30 and 1jz into a cressida but I can't tune my rx7 lol. First time for everything I guess.
it actually sounds like your issue is erratic fuel delivery to me, the timing is just something your fiddling with to help overcome that. but without getting the car starting and idling, well you can't make many corrections to diagnose with aside from cranking maps.
maybe your injectors aren't getting 12v, maybe your ECU ground is poor. just because something appears ok, doesn't mean it is.
it actually sounds like your issue is erratic fuel delivery to me, the timing is just something your fiddling with to help overcome that. but without getting the car starting and idling, well you can't make many corrections to diagnose with aside from cranking maps.
maybe your injectors aren't getting 12v, maybe your ECU ground is poor. just because something appears ok, doesn't mean it is.
kind of agree, if it fires right up on starting fluid that says fuel to me.
possible that its out of gas? i think the FC i'm putting together might be out. tank was EMPTY, and i only put 6L in, and then primed the fuel system + a couple starting attempts...
Just put in 4 gallons the other day. I will measure the injectors tonight and find a better ecu ground. If that doesn't do anything I will pull the fuel rail and verify the injectors are spraying properly. I wonder if my fuel pump could be suspect. It's the stock pump as far as I know, but I do hear it prime and I'm getting pressure. Maybe I will run a new ground lead from the ecu straight to the negative terminal on the battery.
As far as testing the injectors goes, what's the safest/proper way with a mutimeter? I've heard rumors of frying injector drivers if done incorrectly.
a completely empty tank takes about 3 gallons to even fill the sock so you aren't sucking air.
i doubt you will hurt the drivers by checking for 12v with a multimeter if you hit the trigger lead, they aren't firing and are idle. you can also test them with the haltech in test mode(iirc it should have it, if microtech has it i would think haltech would..)
you can also do the old FC method. strap the injectors to the rails and put them into cups while you spin the cas by hand with the ignition on.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; Nov 23, 2015 at 05:04 PM.
That I did not know. I'm currently reading a little over a quarter tank now. I can throw some more fuel in just to be safe though. The car is at a 45 degree angle with it being on stands in the front....
I'm assuming trigger lead would be the positive pin in the plug. I will check my diagram when I get home. Easy enough. It should be getting voltage as my injector durations are changing when adjusting fuel within the Haltech. Plus I can see the fluctuation in ms when I press the throttle. Regardless, I will test it as described.
That I did not know. I'm currently reading a little over a quarter tank now. I can throw some more fuel in just to be safe though. The car is at a 45 degree angle with it being on stands in the front....
I'm assuming trigger lead would be the positive pin in the plug. I will check my diagram when I get home. Easy enough. It should be getting voltage as my injector durations are changing when adjusting fuel within the Haltech. Plus I can see the fluctuation in ms when I press the throttle. Regardless, I will test it as described.
I appreciate all the help folks!
Yo i think the fuel pump is closer to the front of the tank too...
the ECU grounds the injectors momentarily, so 12v at the injectors should be constantly on with the ignition on, it is the ground that is only temporarily kicked on.
Interesting. Pulled my injector harness and discovered the red power wire is not supplying power with the key on, the blue and brown wires are. That can't be good.
those aren't haltech wire colors, so you might wanna trace them back and see where they really go.
or run a continuity test of the red wires to the ECU plug to see where they lead to. fuel injectors are not polarity dependent, so it doesn't really matter what side of the connector the voltage or trigger comes in.
I should of clarified, the haltech wires for injector 1 and 2 are the wires receiving 12v. These wires are connected to a harness connector, then to the injectors.
The red/ green power from the ecu to the injectors is connected to the correct red wire in the connector for the injector harness. This wire is not receiving 12 with the key on. I'm assuming that it's not a good thing for the ecu to receive 12 volts to the injector signal wires?
I apologize. The gist of it is the haltech injector wires are receiving 12 v and the haltech injector power wire is not when the key is on. Is this right? As these wires all go straight into the ecu, would it fry the 2 injectors drivers?
the circuits should be protected, are you seeing 12v at the ECU injector wires with the injectors plugged in or not? if the injectors are plugged in then yeah, you're reading too much into it. if somehow there is 12v going to those driver wires with the injectors out and injector plugs empty... the wiring was botched.
so the injectors always have power with the key ON, and if the ecu sees rpm, it will cycle the ground.
or if you pull off the injector connector, one side should have power with the key ON, or if you checked at the ecu with the key ON, there should be power there too
The car is at a 45 degree angle with it being on stands in the front....
this one time; my friend had a 69 Mercedes 280S, and it needed a fuel pump. so he parked it, and changed the pump. since the pump is mechanical, its mounted on the engine, and sucks from the tank. of course the tank was at the bottom of the hill, and the pump was at the top, so it didn't want to prime.
after trying a few things, we decided that if the engine ran, the pump would then suck enough to prime itself, which turned out not to be the case, but
what to run it on?
if you're thinking Jose Cuervo, you would be correct. it runs about as well as the delorean in back to the future 2, it needs a lot of the stuff, and then it runs pretty badly, and if you're too lean, it backfires and the top of the carb is on fire.
Interesting. Pulled my injector harness and discovered the red power wire is not supplying power with the key on, the blue and brown wires are. That can't be good.
Crazy, I said to check that over a week ago.
Originally Posted by Fuhnortoner
nah. check and make sure both injectors are firing. Any idea about your impedance setup?
With the injectors unplugged from the injector harness and the key on, 1 side of each is getting 12 v. However, the "power" wire according to the haltech wiring diagram is not getting power.
This is essentially what's happening
Also, both injectors are receiving power fuhrtoner. Just in the wrong way I'm assuming. This part of the harness was left as I received it which was supposedly stock configuration. The only thing I messed with was de-pinning injectors 3 and 4. I had no reason to believe the factory haltech harness was wired incorrectly. As stated, it fired and ran and both injectors are getting power.
so the injectors always have power with the key ON, and if the ecu sees rpm, it will cycle the ground.
or if you pull off the injector connector, one side should have power with the key ON, or if you checked at the ecu with the key ON, there should be power there too
check both sides of the injector harness to see if perhaps the wiring from the ECU was moved around.
disconnect the injectors or unplug the injector harness and go by wire color only, ECU harness side the LB and L/R wires should not have 12v at any time. R/G should have 12v with the key on.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; Nov 24, 2015 at 04:18 PM.
