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I have a kind of dead spot in my starter, well sometimes it kind of skips or I dont really know how to describe it.
I have the wiring all sorted unless there is something else im missing with that- good heavy gauge wire right from battery
But I get this sort of dead spot where it stops cranking for a second or sounds like it almost binds for a second ( hard to explain?)
I remember about guys swapping in rx8 starters or is there something else people have been using?
Need this to be plug and play I dont want to make a project out of it for the 3-4 times a year I drive the car but its sometimes embarrassing when leaving a parkinglot full of nice cars
well I did find this, I guess this is the bees knees
Originally Posted by bumpstart
the N327 ( NA auto ) 2kw starter fits straight into the position where the N318 ( turbo manual ) 1.4 kw starter falls out
no mods required
for the FD and rx8, you can swap the N327 guts straight into the appropriate nose very easily in just minutes
as for the 20B starter, you need to have the correct engine rear plate that will take the forwards facing starter ( FD auto or 20B )
if you have the NA 5spd// you are out of luck.. these take the earlier direct drive starters, that run on the smaller ring gear ..and are not the geared type discussed above
numerous times I have had a bad start.
I got "what is it now..dammit!"..is it the starter?..clutch interock?...
nope..damn positive cable at the battery.
I'm surprised when the cable is tight but still not enough to give good contact.
I'm running the automatic starter on my t2, works great.
Got mine from rock auto. There is one that specifies 2 kw
They have a new power select brand starter , wondering if thats better than a bosch "reman"
is the bosch really a reman when alot of sellers arent asking for a core?
They have a new power select brand starter , wondering if thats better than a bosch "reman"
is the bosch really a reman when alot of sellers arent asking for a core?
The automatic N/A starter is a direct bolt up to your TII.
I bought a bosch 2.0KW starter for Rx7 Automatic transmission. I don't remember if it's reman or new. The starter motor is longer, just like eage8 picture shows. I questioned the validity of the automatic n/a starter as an upgrade on my TII. My experience has proven to me that the automatic starter does in fact spin the motor faster under full voltage. Even more importantly, the automatic starter spins the motor much faster under low voltage conditions.
What would happen if you put a manual starter on an automatic ? Just out of curiosity. Mine is unfortunately auto but in case a shop replaces it down the road with the wrong one what would be the worst case scenario ?
Weather A/T 2.0kW, or M/T 1.2kW, they all turn 3000 rpm.
The 2.0kW will spin the engine over easier, not faster.
Not really a necessary change as long as the OEM starter in good condition.
Last edited by Turbonut; Oct 20, 2016 at 07:05 AM.
Weather A/T 2.0kW, or M/T 1.2kW, they all turn 3000 rpm.
The 2.0kW will spin the engine over easier, not faster.
Not really a necessary change as long as the OEM starter in good condition.
Turbonut: You are partially correct. Both the Automatic and Manual starter motors will spin the same speed under no-load conditions. Starting the engine, however, is NOT a no-load condition. The larger motor on the automatic makes 50% more torque. This increased output torque does in fact spin up the engine both more quickly and at a faster load rpm.
The effect is really quite dramatic.
We didn't make this up, we learned it from Mazda on the RX8.
Originally Posted by j9fd3s
we know this, the Rx8 started life with the 1.4kw motor, and was upgraded to the 2.0, and then a 2.4. it makes a huge difference in cranking rpm. the Rx7 doesn't need it as badly, but its totally noticeable
cranking rpm goes from ~220 to ~260 to close to 300
Didn't read the entire thread, but the facts remain the same, all the starters turn 3000 rpm.
If this is controversial, see technical section of the FSM.
The 2.0kW is stronger, but will not turn the engine over at a faster rate.
Didn't read the entire thread, but the facts remain the same, all the starters turn 3000 rpm.
If this is controversial, see technical section of the FSM.
The 2.0kW is stronger, but will not turn the engine over at a faster rate.
Real world experience, as well as the laws of physics, prove otherwise.
Didn't read the entire thread, but the facts remain the same, all the starters turn 3000 rpm.
If this is controversial, see technical section of the FSM.
The 2.0kW is stronger, but will not turn the engine over at a faster rate.
I don't see the problem...yes, they both spin the same rpm but that doesn't preclude also saying that the higher torque motor spins up to the 3000rpm limit more quickly.
Didn't read the entire thread, but the facts remain the same, all the starters turn 3000 rpm.
If this is controversial, see technical section of the FSM.
The 2.0kW is stronger, but will not turn the engine over at a faster rate.
This is an explanation so you can understand the relationship of torque to speed on dc motors.
If the no load speed on the electric motor is 3000rpm, then the loaded speed *cannot* be 3000 rpm. Available torque vs actual load will determine maximum speed. Increase the available torque on the same load, the max loaded speed will increase.
The 2.0KW motor automatic starter has more torque. On a given load it will in fact spin that load at a faster speed. It will ALSO attain it's maximum rotational speed more quickly.
These two characteristics, 1) higher maximum cranking speed, and 2) shorter time to attain maximum cranking speed, are both desirable for our cars.
I probably wouldn't recommend you throw away a perfectly functioning 1.4kw starter just to buy a 2.0kw starter, but if you are buying a new starter out of necessity, go for the upgrade.
Edit: A couple of years ago, hiroichi1515 helped me rebuild the engine from my TII.(Thanks Derrick) I installed a fuel-cut switch to help manage starting during break in. It was still a royal pain in the *** to start that engine until it was fully broken in, especially for the first couple of weeks. I was additionally struggling with voltage drains and grounding issues. An upgraded starter spinning that tight new motor would have been extremely helpful during the break-in period.
If I ever rebuild a rotary again, Tii or N/A, I will upgrade the starter as part of the rebuild process.
Last edited by jackhild59; Oct 20, 2016 at 11:32 AM.
i just like buying stuff and hate when my starter does that thing, its not all the time but enough to annoy the crap out of me
I can probably sell my starter to someone else or Ill just keep it in my spare parts pile ( btw it was a new not reman starter but I dont remember where I got it from)
I see that the examples are heavily stacked against me, but as the rotary is so resistance free when starting,
guess I just assumed the larger capacity starter couldn't turn the engine any faster. Were not talking about a
14:1 cr big block, the little rotary is so resistant free, we all know it can be turned by hand by just pulling on
the fan belt. To get my arms around this, guess I'll need to check when I get back home in late November and
check the starting RPM's.
Thanks for the lesson.
We had a hard time sourcing the 2kw auto starters, bought a few that showed up as 1.2kw TII starters, so we decided to build our own. 2kw starters DRASTICALLY increase cranking rpm, the typical TII cranking rpm is 175, as verified by our Mazda compression tester. With our 2kw starter cranking speed is increased to around 275rpm.
I'm running the automatic starter on my t2, works great.
Got mine from rock auto. There is one that specifies 2 kw
Thanks for the link!
Originally Posted by jackhild59
This is an explanation so you can understand the relationship of torque to speed on dc motors.
If the no load speed on the electric motor is 3000rpm, then the loaded speed *cannot* be 3000 rpm. Available torque vs actual load will determine maximum speed. Increase the available torque on the same load, the max loaded speed will increase.
The 2.0KW motor automatic starter has more torque. On a given load it will in fact spin that load at a faster speed. It will ALSO attain it's maximum rotational speed more quickly.
These two characteristics, 1) higher maximum cranking speed, and 2) shorter time to attain maximum cranking speed, are both desirable for our cars.
I probably wouldn't recommend you throw away a perfectly functioning 1.4kw starter just to buy a 2.0kw starter, but if you are buying a new starter out of necessity, go for the upgrade.
Edit: A couple of years ago, hiroichi1515 helped me rebuild the engine from my TII.(Thanks Derrick) I installed a fuel-cut switch to help manage starting during break in. It was still a royal pain in the *** to start that engine until it was fully broken in, especially for the first couple of weeks. I was additionally struggling with voltage drains and grounding issues. An upgraded starter spinning that tight new motor would have been extremely helpful during the break-in period.
If I ever rebuild a rotary again, Tii or N/A, I will upgrade the starter as part of the rebuild process.
You sir are a gentleman, not only share data, but don't go over your head when being argued with, and that takes... patience?
Originally Posted by Banzai-Racing
We had a hard time sourcing the 2kw auto starters, bought a few that showed up as 1.2kw TII starters, so we decided to build our own. 2kw starters DRASTICALLY increase cranking rpm, the typical TII cranking rpm is 175, as verified by our Mazda compression tester. With our 2kw starter cranking speed is increased to around 275rpm.
you can use the rx8 starter if you drill one ear, if you really want the 2.4kw..
i had a pic floating around...
i beleive you can swap the nose cones from turbo to rx8 also.
) I installed a fuel-cut switch to help manage starting during break in. It was still a royal pain in the *** to start that engine until it was fully broken in, especially for the first couple of weeks. I was additionally struggling with voltage drains and grounding issues. An upgraded starter spinning that tight new motor would have been extremely helpful during the break-in period.
