fbse7en

Thanks to John's Epic 4 rotor FC build log/thread I've learned that certain starters are stronger than others, like AT starters are stronger than the 5spd starters.

If I were to use an AT starter on my 5spd '86 FC, would the manual starter bolts still fit? Wiring, would it need to be mod'd? Specific years?

How about 20B AT starters, stands to reason that they'd be the strongest of the bunch...

How about Rx8 AT starters?

Other starters that are compatible? (Not rotary specific)

Maybe from a 929? B2600?

Thx all!

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Out've curiosity.....why?

Jager

iTrader: (10)

Honestly?

I have owned several RX-7's and only replaced one starter.

Just fix it, not overthink it, and make sure you get a start with a warranty.

DennisH

The stronger the starter, the more likely to overcome flooding; especially useful for de-flooding as well. I'm curious to know the answer too. I replaced my starter a while back, but it's already weaker than is was to begin with.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

firstly, all the starters a mitsubishi, and there seems to be about 3 different electrical motors. the 1.4kw, 2.0kw and whatever the 09 Rx8 uses (2.2kw?)

second, the nose of the starter fits the transmission. so the SA/FB/FC has one style nose, the FD has a second, the 20b and a/t FD and Rx8 have a 3rd, the m/t Rx8 has another, a camry has yet another, etc.

so you are over thinking this. the M/t FC's come with a 1.4kw starter, and we just want to change it to a 2kw starter, and since this is available in an A/t FC starter, no further thinking is required.

fbse7en

Bingo!

That's the type of answer I was looking for! The NA AT starter fits a NA 5spd w/o any issues?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Isn't the N/A A/T starter only compatable with a TII Manual Flywheel though?

lduley

iTrader: (1)

True, but a stronger starter is only a band-aid if you have those issues, i don't see the point in replacing a starter unless its bad...which is rare on these cars

w0ppe

+1 These cars don't flood if everything is working in its proper set and order. I'd rather think a fuel cut-off would be a little more effective than a more powerful or faster spinning starter.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

not sure, worst case you can probably get an Rx8 2.0 kw starter and put the guts into whatever starter nose you need

bumpstart

the N327 ( NA auto ) 2kw starter fits straight into the position where the N318 ( turbo manual ) 1.4 kw starter falls out

no mods required

for the FD and rx8, you can swap the N327 guts straight into the appropriate nose very easily in just minutes

as for the 20B starter, you need to have the correct engine rear plate that will take the forwards facing starter ( FD auto or 20B )

if you have the NA 5spd// you are out of luck.. these take the earlier direct drive starters, that run on the smaller ring gear ..and are not the geared type discussed above

coxxoc

iTrader: (3)

I'll probably get the AT starter. To those who wonder why we want this: try installing a standalone and getting your car to start reliably in 105F-20F weather. I had to do it in the midwest and failed when temps were under 30 unless the battery was 100% fresh off of a charger.

After moving to the NW, this is no longer a problem. I'd still like the stronger starter as insurance of higher RPM during to aid starting.

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

Thank you Bumpstart!..exactly what I am trying to point out!

that the N/A 5 speed starter has a different gear than that of the A/T Starter.
The A/T starter and the TII starter have the same gear.
That is why you can run the A/T starter on a TII.
That is also why they point out that the N/A starter will not work ON a TII!

So..Moral of the story?...you can't run the A/T starter on an N/A 5 speed setup..(unless you perhaps modify it,if that is even possible).

So.
If the Engine is flooding?.. fix the Injectors..not the Starter.

driftxsequence

iTrader: (8)

Would it be possible to put the A/T 2KW motor into a N/A starter without touching the gears?

The extra cranking RPM would also be beneficial for Bridge/peripheral port guys...

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

Was going to suggest you adjust the cold start tables during those weather conditions, but you moved.
What cranking amp battery you have in the car?

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Was going to say, my FC starts just as fine during winter.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

mine used to be a bitch to start too, but thats because we tuned it when it was 85 degrees out.
Had him come to the car when it was 20 degrees to adjust and it was fine ever since

coxxoc

iTrader: (3)

I was using an Optima red top at the time which I think is 900 cca. Adjusting cold start tables and cranking timing did help a lot.

fbse7en

People we live in an age when freakin' cell phones have cameras. We need to remember to start recording video or taking pics of our experiments/experiences with these issues.

Yes, the NA AUTOMATIC STARTER MOTOR fits the NA 5spd starter nose/body PERFECTLY. I just tried it successfully today. Enjoy.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Nice video. Thanks for posting. You're right; we should probably post more videos of stuff like this.

I'm about to do a clutch job in a GSL-SE that has an S5 NA manual trans and S4 NA manual starter which is kinda slow. I think I'll take a look at my spare 84 auto starter and compare with the S4 NA starter while it's out. I'm hoping the 84 motor is the same motor and tooth count as your FC auto starter. It has a long housing so probably the same, and it was late in the FB run so Mazda probably kept it mostly unchanged for the FC. We'll see!

Minor correction. It's a gear reduction style with a small actual black section of the motor. Still gonna look into it though.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I've got an update. Turns out the 84 automatic starter is a totally different design with gear reduction and is totally incompatible with an NA FC starter.

Because my NA starter is apart now, I can see that the grease is dried up so it's getting a lube job! No wonder it was kinda slow. This should work until I can get an FC auto starter.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

One last update. Turns out an FD motor fits in an NA FC nose. Not too surprising.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i looked up the Rx8 starter parts and was surprised to see that the 1.4kw starters are all FC part numbers...

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

^ Makes sense and is smart for a co. to do in terms of less inventory and design/build process. I'm a big proponent of using the same parts in various models. But there's also the added cost of having better components in lower models.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

well since its a mitsubishi starter, i wonder if they have like 3-4 motors, and then the only difference is the nose, and maybe gear?

i found a place that sells the parts, but it doesn't break down as simple as i want it too - Alternator & Starter Parts Wholesale

good news is that the brushes and bearings are cheap