toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

The ECU doesn't control the fuel pump though - if it works like the FC's, then its a completely separate switch that is just opened or closed by airflow through the MAF. If the engine is spinning & sucking air, then the switch is closed - otherwise the switch is open.

Is the 40a relay supposed to be switching the entire starter current, or just the current for the solenoid? The starter motor itself can draw more like 150-200 amps (or more potentially), while the solenoid is only around 10 or so IIRC. It just seemed oddly spec'ed, considering the number of relays you probably have through your junkyard forays.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The Volvo relay is just for the starter solenoid, the starter is connected directly to the battery.
Yes, it is decidedly overspecced but it had a mounting bracket and a decent length pigtail to work with, so I went with the flow.

The Z ECU does control the pump and it's only input is the switch in the MAF.
If it "thinks" it sees airflow, it triggers the pump.
With the key to ON there is no fuel pump until you move the MAF flapper door...just a slight opening and the pump springs to life.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, well then it sounds like the wiring is a bit different than what I remember the stock FC wiring to be. Maybe a good workaround would be to replicate the stock FC setup, and just wire the fuel pump relay directly to the MAF switch to trigger it, completely bypassing the ECU?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

That's an option I've considered, especially since I'm trying to use a FC MAF (at least to start off with...).

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I finally acquired the parts to finish off the power skeleton and am going over to work on her today.

Sigfrid gets to work Saturday, I'll probably continue on with wiring and I hope he can finish off the HVAC install. Really all that's left is to adapt the fresh air intake on the blower housing, clean and refoam all the flapper doors and figure out heater core hoses.

Next week S. and the family unit go on yet another vacation and I'll be housesitting for four days.
I hope to have all the wiring done after that extended work time.

Although the list of details still appears depressingly long, many of them are the final steps and won't have to be redone again (I hope...).
Things like the rear bulb harness...we got all new bulbs and the socket cleaning brush, so once the sockets are cleaned up and greased, the bulbs go in and never come out again.
The back of the car will be DONE!

Up front, we need to dig out the headlight buckets and renovate them so the lights can be installed and wired.
It's funny how this project goes sometimes, I've been sitting on these trick headlights for a few months now and they haven't even merited mention. Normally I'd have been all excited to share 'em but so much else has been going on that I haven't had the time.
But they can come out now and make their debut.

Now that I'm actually doing the wiring instead thinking about it, my mind has moved on to other projects deferred by the electrical.
I basically promised Sigfrid I'd concentrate on wiring till it was done before moving on to more fun stuff. Specifically, I'm still dying to see how the Honda rocker trim will look and want a second crack at the single wiper conversion.
Since neither project furthers the "get the car running" goal, they have been deemed non-essential for now but that only seems to have increased their allure to me.
Pretty sure I'm going to falter and indulge myself.

Finishing the electrical will provide intellectual satisfaction, fitting the rockers and figuring out the wiper linkage are more emotionally gratifying and sometimes, that's just what you need to keep plowing through the dross.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

We had a low key but productive work session yesterday, took a giant step backwards but ended up much further along.

I finally finished making up the power cables, the car is now electrically hot from stem to stern.
I had a problem with one of the license plate light sockets but it's fixed now and all the bulbs in the back function.

Meanwhile, as I'd hoped, Sigfrid concentrated on the HVAC and did a spectacular job, it's better than I could have hoped.
We had previously mounted the three main "boxes" but had never finalized the fresh air intake.
After pondering the options a plan was formed but as it was implemented it became obvious that shifting everything about 3/4" would make life much simpler, so he basically reengineered the whole thing and it's now much better than before.

Sometimes it takes us a couple of tries to get where we want to be- in fact, "redoing" is part of our work plan- and it paid off this time with a near OEM install.
I'm thrilled.

I scavenged the attic and found the headlight buckets, brought em home to clean/paint so they'll be ready when I resume work Wednesday.

I should easily have the chassis harness ready to power up by Thursday sometime.

Nothing much to show, the cabin is still teepeed with loose wires and the HVAC looks pretty much like it always has- pictures don't show "solidity" very well.

She's coming along.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Optimism and idiocy make a potent combination.

Five days.
I just spent five days living over in the garage, working non-stop on the "electrical".

I'm about 90% finished with the chassis harness, haven't even begun thinking of the engine wiring.
It's kicking my ***, frankly.

I spent a lot of time on mostly mechanical issues...specifically, the headlights.
The lights are held in buckets that bolt to the front of the fender in the wheelwell.
These buckets are bolted with 5mm bolts into capture nuts and somehow two broken bolts made it through our exhaustive QC process.

The passenger side sugarscoop (headlight surround) had to come off to access the capture nuts and repair them. That was five hours of fun.
At the same time I was rectifying a Datsun design flaw that put the headlight wiring through a hole in the bucket too small to allow the connectors to pass through, making the wiring and the bucket one piece essentially.
I had to ream the holes, find some grommets and make a whole new harness to finally make it reasonable.

This was necessary to make the "one piece" harness removable.
Unlike an OEM harness, mine does not have subsections with connectors, it's all hardwired in one piece after careful routing to ensure it can come out. The only connector (that doesn't terminate at a device) is a 9-pin that joins the engine bay to the cabin.

All in all, I spent three days completing the two harness, merging them (via the aforementioned connector), climbing the passenger side up to the top of the firewall and across to the final destinations.
I thought I had it made.

Right.

To kick off the final stage of the project, I started with the easiest circuit...the wipers.
After all, I'd already had the wipers powered up and running with the Miata switchgear and the only thing that had changed was the swap to Protoge switches, which have the identical schematic and number/color of wires.

And don't work.

Disheartening to say the least.
I spent that night trying to find an explanation but my semi-fried brain came up with nothing except a possible wire swap that the drawing suggested might be causing the symptoms I was experiencing (the wipers worked in OFF and INT, but were dead in all other modes and the washer didn't function).

Before I made the "correction", I cobbled the Miata switch back in and confirmed the motor and the wiring were correct when it again was fully functional.
So I swapped two wires, plugged in the Protege switch...and promptly burned it out.
Smelled like defeat.
Not great, Bob.

Spent half a day junkyarding the replacement...which didn't work either.

The basic schematics of the two systems are exactly the same- wires in, wires out, wire colors- but there must be a difference in the electronics inside and the Protege switch just doesn't like the Miata motor.
Rather than continuing to burn time, I decided to wuss out and go get the Protege motor...but the yard was closed, so that must wait till this week.

So, instead of a great start I had a great fizzle.
And then it got worse.

My "ignition" setup is based on a Volvo 2-speed fan relay, key ON powers up the LO side of the relay and runs all the normal switched +12v circuits (wipers, turn signals, reverse lights, etc) and hitting the Honda start switch triggers the HI side of the relay which kills everything but the ECU, fuel pump, starter relay and injectors.

And my junkyard relay was broken, only the HI side worked.
By the time I discovered this, I'd wasted another couple hours rechecking all my wiring, figuring I'd made a boneheaded mistake.
But no, just a bad relay.

This was a real bummer because I'd already hooked everything up but was unable to power stuff to see if it worked (I'm specifically concerned about the turn signals), so I'm actually not sure how far along I am.
When I pop in the replacement relay, it could all be good and I'd be thrilled but after the past few days I'm not terribly optimistic.

It wasn't all bad news though, lots of things work.
All the lighting (save the turn signals) is functional, HI/LO beams, running, brake, driving...all good.
A symphony of relays when switches are flicked, music to my ears.
The horns work and are gratifyingly obnoxious (pair of Fiamms from a Volvo).

So, instead of being triumphantly finished, I'm in limbo till I get a new relay and figure out the wiper situation.

All is not hopeless however.
Looking with the hindsight of a day, I'm now dealing with a harness in place instead of building the harness. I have fixes to implement but the bulk of the physical labor is finished and any remaining problems will be local/minor.

Unless she burns to the ground, in which case I'll be a little miffed.

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

rough weekend, sheesh. So your wipers work like most 2nd gen rx7's at this point then, or they completely non-op?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

With the Miata switch installed, the wipers are fully functional.
With the Protege switch, the wipers are running with the switch OFF, stutter on INT and do nothing everywhere else.

It's a mystery.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Maybe you snatched a bad Protege switch?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

I'm on the second one now.
Two bad switches in a row?

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

Touche'.

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

maybe I missed why it is you do not want to use the miata switch? Too new looking?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The Protge switch looks nicer, has better "feel" and most importantly, the Protege combo switch works with a Datsun/Nissan turn signal cancel arrangement, so I don't have to do anything for that.
Also, the Protege clamshell actually fits the Miata dash better than the original (since our dash has been relocated further from the wheel).

My electrical "expertise" extends to the "plumbing" level...wires are pipes, switches/relays are valves, electricity is water- your basic idiots approach to electricity.
The electronic schematics for the intermittent function might as well be marked "Here Be Dragons" for all the good they do me.

Having already destroyed one switch and feeling fortunate to have acquired a second, I'm choosing to take the easy way out and (hopefully) just use the matching motor, thus avoiding the issue altogether.
I say "hopefully" because the Z mounts the wiper motor oddly and not all newer motors will even fit or are capable of being modified sufficiently to work.
I haven't even looked to see how likely a donor the Protege will be.

In a way, I might be a little happy this is happening as it gives me the chance to go back in and maybe do the single wiper conversion at the same time.
A small consolation.

archaphil

iTrader: (1)

That is still more then most people on here have. At least you have the "carpenter level" of the plumber level that is the electrical level. You understand the base framework.

Well, at any rate, now I understand the choice of said switch.

I did truly chuckle at the quoted comment. It was a hearty chuckle.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

have you tried to put the electrical part of the miata switch in the protege housing? at some point, the Mazda's are pretty modular, and they seem to have different stalks/middle bits, but the switches are the same... (you could PM me year model, and i could do some research, if needed)

5 days for most of a harness is quite good though, wiring takes forever! and yes, its just pipes. sometimes the pipes carry "water", sometimes "poop", but they just get whatever effluvia from A to B...

clokker

iTrader: (2)

The switches will not interchange, I'm not even sure they're both from Niles.
The way they mount on the center web is totally different.

Tomorrow I go look at the Protege motor, see if it will work.
I'm only paying $15 for wiper motors ($25 if you also nab the linkage and pivots/mounts), so it's not worth agonizing over if a small amount of cash solves the problem.

If not, I'll be in contact.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Nearly stroked out in the junkyard today, it had to be well over 100° out there.
But it was worth it.

Picked up two Volvo relays (better safe than sorry and hopefully we now have a spare), a 2002 Protege wiper motor (same car I pulled the switch from earlier) and a few more wiring gizmos that looked useful.

Sigfrid just realized that we now have to start thinking about gauges...because we don't really have any. He's hot for Speedhuts but I suspect that will cool when he prices them out.
I'm pushing for (and betting we get) VDOs...simple, cheap, easy to work with and suitably old school in appearance.

Oh boy, more wiring.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

You know what I did today that was really weird?

I worked on my own car.

Granted, it was only a minor tune up- oil/filter, plugs, timing and TPS- but I realized it was the first attention I'd lavished on her in months.
I guess that's what being a daily driver is all about.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

A milestone, perfectly encapsulated in a pic:


It's been nearly a year but the spark plug wires are finally terminated.
Somehow, during the interval we lost the coil boot but the rest is all done.
Small potatoes admittedly, but we're taking our victories where we find 'em these days.

We made progress on the chassis harness but it's still not finished.
Surprisingly, so far I've only made one (easily rectifiable) mistake...I crossed the turn signals in the rear harness.
The turn signals were a story in themselves, when first powered up you could hear the unit tick-tocking away but no lights were flashing.
This lead to an hour or so of ripping apart and verifying the harness (which was fine) until I realized the HAZARD power feed was not connected (the system is fed by two fuses, one to the switch itself and the second to the flasher box) and when hooked up, it worked.

But it blinks too fast, undoubtedly due to the LED front bulbs.
In HAZARD mode it blinks normally, so it likes the extra draw and I'll just convert the rear bulbs/sockets to dual filament units which should slow it down.

Sigfrid stripped the Miata dash harness of the heater controls, radio connections and cigarette lighter (or "Power Port" for you millenials) and those have been integrated into our firewall harness. Our dash will have no harness of it's own, making removal that much easier.

The only two items left to sort are the regulated dash lighting (which I've ignored completely till now) and the bloody ******* wipers, which are driving me to distraction.
The wipers should be the simplest of all circuits, yet we cannot get them to work.

I have the switch, motor and pigtails all from the same donor 2002 Protege.
The wire number/colors are all consistent with the schematic I have...it should be nearly plug-n-play, yet it is all screwed up.
I've run myself ragged trying to figure it out and finally dumped it off on Sigfrid, hoping that fresh eyes will spot my mistake.

Of course, being junkyard parts it's entirely possible that one or both of the components could be bad but I think that's highly unlikely.
We'll see.

Anyway, excepting the wipers, the chassis harness is basically finished.
Monday I go back and do some detail work and harness wrapping, just neaten things up a bit.
Then I move on to the engine harness.

I'm hoping that will be more straightforward but expecting it won't.

BrettLinton7

iTrader: (33)

Keep up the good work, I look forward to your updates every Monday!

cluosborne

About the wiper circuit. Could the Protoge have a module separate from the wiper motor and switch that handles the intermittent function?

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Nissans use a separate "amplifier" for intermittent but Mazda does not, that's all incorporated into the switch.

Kind of a moot point because I'm now trying the switchgear and motor from a "99 Lexus ES300.
The switches are essentially the deluxe versions of what we already have from the Protege. We gain a FOG light switch on the light stalk and variable INT on the wiper side.
They plug right into the center web/mount (they're from Niles too, so I figured they would).

The motor is nicely low profile and the connector location is perfect.
As an aside:
Lexus uses an insanely overengineered setup in the wiper cavity.
The motor and two pivot points are all mounted on this elaborate cast alloy bracket...undo four bolts and everything comes out as a unit. It's actually pretty cool.

Now I just to need to find some schematics. Unfortunately, my AllData connection is gone, so I'll just have to rummage the net and hope to get lucky.

Got the power distribution points all set and installed as well as replaced the turn signal sockets with dual filament units to slow down the flasher (both filaments are tied together).
I hope that works.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Wow, what an adventure.

Toyota is apparently pretty tetchy about online hosted manuals, I followed about a million links to dead ends and hosting ads.
I also suspect that ES300 owners are not exactly "gearheads" (they did after all buy a Camry with pretensions of grandeur), so their forums are not hotbeds of technical info.

I did finally unearth the diagrams I need though and it's a damn good thing I did because I'd never have figured it out with the (faulty) info I had.

All these switches are made by a company called "Niles" and the upscale Lexus versions are a direct fit for the Mazda center web, even the electrical connectors interchange (but the pinouts are different).
So far I've seen similar switchgear in Mazdas, Lexus and Subaru and they all share similar wire count/colors. Which is quite deceptive because it turns out they do very different things.

For instance, in the Protege the L/O wire sends power to the washer pump.
In the Lexus, it runs LO speed. The Lexus powers the pump directly and the L/W grounds it...exactly backwards.
Fortunately, the other switch (lights and turn signals) is completely mechanical, just make/break contacts, and can be ohmed out to see what does what. I have its schematic as well but will check with a meter anyway.

I am hopeful this will now all work.
If not, we'll RainX the **** out of the windshield and carry a chamois.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

YES!

The wipers work- all functions, including one-touch wash, are present and accounted for.
I have no idea what I did differently this time but don't really care, this is the nicest of the three setups anyway.

No pics because, well...they just look like wipers.