MADBOOST

can someone tell me how much hp a stock non turbo fc has? and what it would take to make 180 wheel hp or even 200 with N/A? i have a 93 FD now that is a slow project that i want to build for drag...
but i really want a relaible daily driver with some bite that i can beat the crap outta... im trying to decide if i want a 84 to 86 ae86 corrolla gts that i been searching for or to juss build a N/A fc but i dont know if i can reach the power i want with a budget of 5 or 6... you think i can find blown motor fc and send it out for a rebuilt and port and buy some bolt ons and reach 180 wheel hp with my budget???? some1 please let me know if this is out of my reach or if its doable..

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Short of a peripheral port or similar, you aren't going to get 180 at the wheels on an N/A. Typically i'd say around 120-130rwhp stock. 160rwhp is about the most i've seen on a stock port engine with every bolt on imaginable.

91_fc

stock an S5 has 160hp. Mazdatrix sells headers, a high flow cat, and the mufflers (w/ the piping) for a total of ... about $1,400. and only gives you about an estimated 20-25 hp gain! thats about 65 to 70 bucks per hp. not too cheap.
Apex'i sells their Power intake with an adaptor (for an almost perfect fit) for about $115 depending on how hard you look. this is good for about 15hp. that about $7.67 per hp. get a mandrel bent custom pipe w/ the inside polished. wrap the pipe in some insulation, put a heat sheild around the filter, and throw in some ducting and youve got another 5hp.
another thing is the "tornado ". i know this sounds like bs but dyno test show that it gives an extra 15hp. thats about $5 per hp.
out of all these mods ive done the HKS cat back, from mazda trix and the Apex filter. i noticed a big difference with the filter.

91_fc

if you add it all up its about 210 hp. im not sure how accurate that is though. its just estimated.

MADBOOST

so with a budget of 5 or 6 you think i can get 160rwhp? or is that not enuf? and if i did make 160 would it be reliable to beat on and drive every day? how much reliability does a peripheral port sacrafice? do you think this is a good plan or should i juss give up my wishes for another rwd and get a crx or a hatch with a b16 for a DD? i am driving my fd everywhere now and it leaks oil slowly but on the exhaust so it smokes and the secondary turbo juss quit, but i think it might be a hose... im planning on blowing like 25 g's on my fd next winter after some of my investment money starts coming back but until then i need a DD

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Without getting horribly crazy, you can have a reliable 160. Or you can get creative and go Icemark's direction and get 172-ish (as santiago just had to inform me)

MADBOOST

im getting so frustrated owning a fd and trying to find builders for a fc here in MN where there are many very good honda tuners that nakes fast cars but no1 even deals with anything mazda... if i cant figure something out fast im juss gonna get a b16 crx... dammit.

there are many many of those around here... those little ***** are real f ing quick tho for a 5 thousand dolla car

Rutnick

"another thing is the "tornado ". i know this sounds like bs but dyno test show that it gives an extra 15hp. thats about $5 per hp."

you have to be KIDDING. What dyno? Theirs? The tornado doesn't work. It is junk.

Ocelot

Er...why not just get a turbo FC? If you have that much of a budget, just get the turbo version, which is a hell of a lot cheaper to make go a LOT faster than any NA will ever get.

MADBOOST

i dont get it.. ive heard from many that fc is supposed to have 150 or 160 hp... b16''s and civic si's have 160 hp and is way way faster.. and the civic looks bigger and heavier.. is the fc a heavy car? how much does it weigh? ive driven a few fc's and it only seems as fast as my stock crx with 120 hp and way slower in 1st gear than the crx.. civis si is much much faster than both of these, with either more or about even weight than the fc... i know a 1.6 is gonna have a little more torque than a 1.3 and the si has very close gears and i dont emember the gear ratios on a fc but its hard to believe a those two things make the si that much faster than a fc

91_fc

whats that?

Visago

you said you use that tornado thing? does it work ? is it for real?

MADBOOST

Ocelot, i already have a fd.. a turbo car is unrealiable to beat on and especially a turbo rotory... i dont want another money pit or a lot of hp for this one...i jus want enuf hp to have fun and hold a drift so i stop f ing up my fd drifting.... but mosr of all i want the reliability of NA to beat on and drive a lot a miles on

wozzoom

>160 RWHP is pretty much the "normal" max for a second gen car car with all the bolt ons and no engine porting. This can be very reliable and FUN in this configuration.

170-180 RWHP is attainable with engine modification (street port) and tuning. Adjusting the timing and fuel are required. This can also be reliable but starts to get loud. No emissions are left on the car.

For 200 RWHP, you'll have to go experimental and reliabilty starts to become an issue. As well as money!

Don't expect to buy a $500-1000 2nd gen NA and turn it into a monster for cheap. Usually $500 dollar FC's have tired engines that are going to need a rebuild. Add the rebuild cost to all your modifications to get 160 RWHP and you'll easily hit the $3000-4000 dollar mark.

MADBOOST

91 fc i appreciate your input but i didnt take your tornado comment seriously... i have a theory that in a turbo car, the tornado could add some noticable hp but ive seen the infomercial and juss like them all its a bunch of mumbo jumbo.. they claim up to 15 hp gain, i can beleive a possibilty of very very small hp gains from a tornado in a NA car but im skeptical of infomercials and it hasnt gotten the automotive world talking like it should if you can really buy 15 hp for your car with a few bucks and 5 minutes or even 5 or 10 hp.... but i still want to test my theory about the tornado in a turbo car since anything at all to improve breathing gives large hp gains

91_fc

yeah i know it sounds like bullshit but it does work. there is a local shop where i live and they dynoed a civic before and after they put that cheezy **** in. it showed a solid 15 hp gain. they took it out again and the peak ph dropped 15hp. i wouldnt be telling you if i didn't believe it myself or thought it was bull. but im not here to argue.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

a *STOCK* Turbo 2nd gen is pretty reliable if you maintain it. As for FD's, well, nothing to say there.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

On tuned intake's, it doesn't do much of anything and just acts as a restriction in the intake.

MADBOOST

thanx wozzom you got me exited with the 170 to 180hp talk and loud noises.. i live in MN with no emissions.. i have a bidget of 5 or 6 and i wanted to buy a blown motor and rebuild anyway... i think im gonna call some shops and start bugging them about porting questions...
where do you find tuners? can you refer me to a reputable tuner? im gonna need one for my fd too.. im getting most of my work done at pettit or pineapple prolly for my fd and for tuning maybe there also but i wanted to find the most reutable tuner in these 48 states to tune my fd if its not too much kuzz i hear its
way more important to have the best tuner for high hp rotories then it is for cylinder cars

Bukwild

the only thing that you will ever "bolt" on and it will actually rasie RWHP numbers is boost. turbo/super/nos
NA guys need to come to the realization that thier is not muffler/airfilter/pulleys that are ever going to do anything. Save the 2k you are going to spend in bolt on **** and bolt on boost.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

And 40+ rwhp proven on a dyno is nothing?

MADBOOST

hey sonicrat i know thats true what you say.. even tho it hurts to admit it... fd's always blow and ive raced a rust bucket turbo 2 with 135k on it and looked like a pile of **** but i swear it ran as fast as new no bullshit... but im confused.. how can there be such a reliability difference in the motor? isnt it the same exact motor and apex seals in both models? and the fd juss gets a tiny bit more boost? does the extra hp make the fd that much more unreliable? if so.. does that mean adding that much more hp to a fc with more boost makes it as unreliable as a stock fd??? im sittin here smoking a blunt overthinking ,myself does this make any sense or do i need to juss go back to sleep?

91_fc

the only other way to gain hp on an NA is to get it ported (intake and exhaust). getting light weight rotors and a light weight flywheel also frees up some hp.

power doesnt matter as much as the power to weight ratio. the more weight your car has to pull the slower it is, and the harder it is to control under hard cornering.
with so once your all done with getting as much power you can out of the engine start trying to lighten her up. some things you can do that wont cost anything is to remove all of the sound damping insulation in the rear, the spare tire and jack. if you had $$$ you could try and get some light rims and a cf drive shaft.

VietFC

i have the tornado also on my honda. I didn't feel much power gain on the top end, but the throttle response and the low end were much more crisp and noticeable. It did even raise my mpg a little. I think it works, but it's not worth the price tag.. =\

MADBOOST

buckwild i feal what yer saying if your juss trying to get more hp but you didnt read it all... i know you said intake, exhaust and **** does nothing for na, i know what you mean in your exaggeration, when comparing to a force induction car intake and exhasut does very very very little in hp gains(in most cars like hondas n ****) but like i said 3 times now, i have a turbo car that is going to be 400 hp and set up for drag and weekend driving... i want a DD built for drifting that is gonna be ten times more reliable then a bossted car to beat the crap outta