Fixing the AC system.. question about O rings
08-12-02, 02:54 PM
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Fixing the AC system.. question about O rings
OK...
just got the condensor from banzaitoyota... thank you very much.... it came in great condition...
now time for me to do some ac work because i dont want to get booked for 2+ hour job by a ac mechanic for replacing the condensor...
looknig at the FSM it looks simple.
now the FSM says to use compressor oil, which banzai tells me it is esther based.
but reading up on ac systems. the R134 system uses PAG oil? what is that? whats the diff...
also since i'll pulling the condensor out. and opening a fiting, do i need to change the o-ring for a R134 o ring instead of the old R12 type O rings... i hear they are different
so 2\3 questions needs to be answered.
1.) do i used PAG oil or compressor oil
http://www.brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1997JUN/2137.shtml
2.) do i change the oring with a R134 compatible one? or just say F it, i'l just use the old one since the whole system is full of old o rings anyways. Where do i find such an O ring
3.) FSM says, if condensor is replaced, add compressor oil, 25-30cc or 1.53 to 1.83 cu inches
but why would i add compressor oil if the whole system needs to be converted to R134.. and R134 uses a different type of oil
so do i just say F it... i'll just install it, do nothing about the oil and let hte ac shop take care of the stuff after.
HELP!
just got the condensor from banzaitoyota... thank you very much.... it came in great condition...
now time for me to do some ac work because i dont want to get booked for 2+ hour job by a ac mechanic for replacing the condensor...
looknig at the FSM it looks simple.
now the FSM says to use compressor oil, which banzai tells me it is esther based.
but reading up on ac systems. the R134 system uses PAG oil? what is that? whats the diff...
also since i'll pulling the condensor out. and opening a fiting, do i need to change the o-ring for a R134 o ring instead of the old R12 type O rings... i hear they are different
so 2\3 questions needs to be answered.
1.) do i used PAG oil or compressor oil
http://www.brickboard.com/ARCHIVES/1997JUN/2137.shtml
2.) do i change the oring with a R134 compatible one? or just say F it, i'l just use the old one since the whole system is full of old o rings anyways. Where do i find such an O ring
3.) FSM says, if condensor is replaced, add compressor oil, 25-30cc or 1.53 to 1.83 cu inches
but why would i add compressor oil if the whole system needs to be converted to R134.. and R134 uses a different type of oil
so do i just say F it... i'll just install it, do nothing about the oil and let hte ac shop take care of the stuff after.
HELP!
08-12-02, 03:33 PM
#2
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First off, why not just get it charged back up with R-12? It works a HELL of a lot better, and you can get the system charged for under $100.
As far as replacing the condensor, it's really easy.
- Remove the two plastic panels/radiator ducts between the headlights
- Remove the hood latch
- Remove the stock electric fan (if you have one)
- Undo condensor lines
- Unbolt condensor and bring out through the front
For doping up the O-rings, you can use dielectric grease - don't know if it's 134a compatible, but it works with 12 systems.
Dale
As far as replacing the condensor, it's really easy.
- Remove the two plastic panels/radiator ducts between the headlights
- Remove the hood latch
- Remove the stock electric fan (if you have one)
- Undo condensor lines
- Unbolt condensor and bring out through the front
For doping up the O-rings, you can use dielectric grease - don't know if it's 134a compatible, but it works with 12 systems.
Dale
08-12-02, 04:26 PM
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Don't use PAG as it is not compatible with the R134A refrigerant. I believe the correct oil is esther oil. Local auto store should have it. You need to add extra oil for component replacement because the oil is completely through the system. If you don't add the extra oil, you will short change the oil in the compressor causing it to die prematurely.
The O-Rings are not compatible either. Change all of them that you can access. R-134A O-Rings are about the same price and are compatible with both. They are made of viton or another rubber compared to the standard rubber. They will also last longer and seal better regardless. (I think they are usually green/black in color)
All the oil needs removed and flushed from the system before converting over. The dryer will need replaced, then use 80% of rated capacity for refrigerant levels.
Good Luck
Tim
The O-Rings are not compatible either. Change all of them that you can access. R-134A O-Rings are about the same price and are compatible with both. They are made of viton or another rubber compared to the standard rubber. They will also last longer and seal better regardless. (I think they are usually green/black in color)
All the oil needs removed and flushed from the system before converting over. The dryer will need replaced, then use 80% of rated capacity for refrigerant levels.
Good Luck
Tim
08-12-02, 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by dcfc3s
First off, why not just get it charged back up with R-12? It works a HELL of a lot better, and you can get the system charged for under $100.
As far as replacing the condensor, it's really easy.
- Remove the two plastic panels/radiator ducts between the headlights
- Remove the hood latch
- Remove the stock electric fan (if you have one)
- Undo condensor lines
- Unbolt condensor and bring out through the front
For doping up the O-rings, you can use dielectric grease - don't know if it's 134a compatible, but it works with 12 systems.
Dale
First off, why not just get it charged back up with R-12? It works a HELL of a lot better, and you can get the system charged for under $100.
As far as replacing the condensor, it's really easy.
- Remove the two plastic panels/radiator ducts between the headlights
- Remove the hood latch
- Remove the stock electric fan (if you have one)
- Undo condensor lines
- Unbolt condensor and bring out through the front
For doping up the O-rings, you can use dielectric grease - don't know if it's 134a compatible, but it works with 12 systems.
Dale
i can't... well i don't know of a store that has R12 still
08-12-02, 05:07 PM
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R-12 is selling for over $33 a lb, if you can find some worth buying. Most on the "gray" market is recovered and most likely contaminated.
True, R-134 is not as cold as R-12, but you are cooling a small car and it will still have an output temperature of about 45 degrees, so unless you are storing meat in your car, R-134 will fit the bill for a LOT less. especially if you pinch an o-ring and have to get it charged again!!
As far as the oil goes, stick with the one compatible to the refrigerant. R-12 can carry oil better that R-134, hence the difference. the Oil designed for the R-12 is heavier and cannot be distributed well by the R-134. Without the oil, the o-rings will dry and cause leaks.
I'd recommend the retrofit to R-134. Cheaper in the long run!!
Mike
True, R-134 is not as cold as R-12, but you are cooling a small car and it will still have an output temperature of about 45 degrees, so unless you are storing meat in your car, R-134 will fit the bill for a LOT less. especially if you pinch an o-ring and have to get it charged again!!
As far as the oil goes, stick with the one compatible to the refrigerant. R-12 can carry oil better that R-134, hence the difference. the Oil designed for the R-12 is heavier and cannot be distributed well by the R-134. Without the oil, the o-rings will dry and cause leaks.
I'd recommend the retrofit to R-134. Cheaper in the long run!!
Mike
08-12-02, 05:19 PM
#6
Originally posted by 89turbo2dutch
R-12 is selling for over $33 a lb, if you can find some worth buying. Most on the "gray" market is recovered and most likely contaminated.
True, R-134 is not as cold as R-12, but you are cooling a small car and it will still have an output temperature of about 45 degrees, so unless you are storing meat in your car, R-134 will fit the bill for a LOT less. especially if you pinch an o-ring and have to get it charged again!!
As far as the oil goes, stick with the one compatible to the refrigerant. R-12 can carry oil better that R-134, hence the difference. the Oil designed for the R-12 is heavier and cannot be distributed well by the R-134. Without the oil, the o-rings will dry and cause leaks.
I'd recommend the retrofit to R-134. Cheaper in the long run!!
Mike
R-12 is selling for over $33 a lb, if you can find some worth buying. Most on the "gray" market is recovered and most likely contaminated.
True, R-134 is not as cold as R-12, but you are cooling a small car and it will still have an output temperature of about 45 degrees, so unless you are storing meat in your car, R-134 will fit the bill for a LOT less. especially if you pinch an o-ring and have to get it charged again!!
As far as the oil goes, stick with the one compatible to the refrigerant. R-12 can carry oil better that R-134, hence the difference. the Oil designed for the R-12 is heavier and cannot be distributed well by the R-134. Without the oil, the o-rings will dry and cause leaks.
I'd recommend the retrofit to R-134. Cheaper in the long run!!
Mike
R134a is going to blow the AC high side hose in that FC sky high...Its happened to 2 of us on this forum already
Rat
08-12-02, 05:45 PM
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freeze 12 is propane or butane based.. i'm not sure... i have issues about using compressed highly flammeable hydrocarbon on the front end of my car... if a leak were to happen or when i get into an accident i don't even want to think about it...
i don't care if the risk are that, 1% of the time in an accident it will catch fire... i want 0%... so i can eliminate one more risk out of hte equation
i don't care if the risk are that, 1% of the time in an accident it will catch fire... i want 0%... so i can eliminate one more risk out of hte equation
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08-12-02, 05:48 PM
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ok back to the actual original question... i'm going to swap out mybusted condensor for banzaitoyota's condensor.
What should i use to apply to the o rings? FSM says compressor oil.
FSM also says to use compressor oil to fill condensor if one is being replaced.
Now I'm going to get the system converted to R134. Period.
What should i do about filling the condensor with oil that will be purged from teh system anyways... and what should i pack the oring with? condensor oil or leave it dry.
What should i use to apply to the o rings? FSM says compressor oil.
FSM also says to use compressor oil to fill condensor if one is being replaced.
Now I'm going to get the system converted to R134. Period.
What should i do about filling the condensor with oil that will be purged from teh system anyways... and what should i pack the oring with? condensor oil or leave it dry.
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