First Trip after 9 Years sitting :-)
09-24-09, 10:00 PM
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First Trip after 9 Years sitting :-)
Hi Everyone again, (88 S4 NA Vert, 118k miles)
Well the kinks are coming out and again I'm sorry for the non-specific post, but here is the outcome after a first small venture (Phoenix to Tucson and back, 135 miles each way, about 100 degrees F ambient outside)...
1) The car starts perfectly and settles down from 3000 rpm to 750 within about 1 minute or less. I installed the code sensor (2 red led's, green led) and the green will flash while this is occuring and then go solid after warm-up. I'm not sure what is happening at cruise, etc. because I didn't run the green lamp into the dash yet.
2) I'm still running 1/2 oz Valvoline 2-stroke oil per gallon 87 octane Chevron Techron until I know the OMP and lines are feeding oil. After the whole trip I think the crankcase oil is down-maybe slightly (20-50W Valvoline). I can't see oil in the OMP lines (re-fabricated with PTFE, but the oil is so clean I'm not sure I'll see it).
3) The oil pressure is way up about 8/10ths of the scale and never gets lower than 30psi even when hot and idleing in traffic so I think it's good.
4) I have a concern with the water temperature reading. It's very low from what I'm used to...about 1/8th to 1/4th on the scale from "C" to "H" after extended warm up (100F ambient outside). I suspect it is possibly calcified from the old coolant and sitting for 9 years even after flushing the radiator 2 times (engine warm, cold to hot, heater on full to flush the heater core, etc.). I think the radiator may need replacement, but I don't have an infrared gun to check for hotspots and I'm trying to find the immediate stuff to fix before I throw parts at the car.
5) A/C has not been turned on, as I know, it is at the very least way low on freon. I don't know about this compressor, but based on my experience most Asian cars have efficient compressors that typically will come back to life if not abused. So, I'll do a leak test (no dye) and see if anything is holding. If so, I'll evacuate, flush and charge with Freeze12 and mineral oil and see how it works.
6) Michelin tires (14 years old) were not flat after sitting (amazing!), although I know they have flat spots and you can feel it at 61mph and 80mph (35psi in the tires). I used to like some Bridgestone tires a few years back but now I don't know what's good...any suggestions...(400 AA treadware, etc., TireRack, etc.)??
7) And, finally, the clutch pedal is "clicking" when depressed, and now after the trip, upon release. The sound is coming from the pedal (or area slightly above) and I'm guessing it's a missing nut or circlip at the pedel pivot, etc. I'll look at it tonight and probably find the problem, but, again any experience is appreciated.
Other than that, the car is GREAT and loves to rev and super tight and perfect for one that has been revived from a lacking previous owner. The steering is very tight and just a ton of fun.
So.......a few questions--should I run lower or higher octane? I think I read that I should use low octane? Does anyone have the resistance-to-temperature data for the water temperature sensor (e.g. 2000 Ohms at 50 degrees F, 50 Ohms at 220 degrees F)?
TIA,
Jeff
Well the kinks are coming out and again I'm sorry for the non-specific post, but here is the outcome after a first small venture (Phoenix to Tucson and back, 135 miles each way, about 100 degrees F ambient outside)...
1) The car starts perfectly and settles down from 3000 rpm to 750 within about 1 minute or less. I installed the code sensor (2 red led's, green led) and the green will flash while this is occuring and then go solid after warm-up. I'm not sure what is happening at cruise, etc. because I didn't run the green lamp into the dash yet.
2) I'm still running 1/2 oz Valvoline 2-stroke oil per gallon 87 octane Chevron Techron until I know the OMP and lines are feeding oil. After the whole trip I think the crankcase oil is down-maybe slightly (20-50W Valvoline). I can't see oil in the OMP lines (re-fabricated with PTFE, but the oil is so clean I'm not sure I'll see it).
3) The oil pressure is way up about 8/10ths of the scale and never gets lower than 30psi even when hot and idleing in traffic so I think it's good.
4) I have a concern with the water temperature reading. It's very low from what I'm used to...about 1/8th to 1/4th on the scale from "C" to "H" after extended warm up (100F ambient outside). I suspect it is possibly calcified from the old coolant and sitting for 9 years even after flushing the radiator 2 times (engine warm, cold to hot, heater on full to flush the heater core, etc.). I think the radiator may need replacement, but I don't have an infrared gun to check for hotspots and I'm trying to find the immediate stuff to fix before I throw parts at the car.
5) A/C has not been turned on, as I know, it is at the very least way low on freon. I don't know about this compressor, but based on my experience most Asian cars have efficient compressors that typically will come back to life if not abused. So, I'll do a leak test (no dye) and see if anything is holding. If so, I'll evacuate, flush and charge with Freeze12 and mineral oil and see how it works.
6) Michelin tires (14 years old) were not flat after sitting (amazing!), although I know they have flat spots and you can feel it at 61mph and 80mph (35psi in the tires). I used to like some Bridgestone tires a few years back but now I don't know what's good...any suggestions...(400 AA treadware, etc., TireRack, etc.)??
7) And, finally, the clutch pedal is "clicking" when depressed, and now after the trip, upon release. The sound is coming from the pedal (or area slightly above) and I'm guessing it's a missing nut or circlip at the pedel pivot, etc. I'll look at it tonight and probably find the problem, but, again any experience is appreciated.
Other than that, the car is GREAT and loves to rev and super tight and perfect for one that has been revived from a lacking previous owner. The steering is very tight and just a ton of fun.
So.......a few questions--should I run lower or higher octane? I think I read that I should use low octane? Does anyone have the resistance-to-temperature data for the water temperature sensor (e.g. 2000 Ohms at 50 degrees F, 50 Ohms at 220 degrees F)?
TIA,
Jeff
09-24-09, 10:36 PM
#2
4) I have a concern with the water temperature reading. It's very low from what I'm used to...about 1/8th to 1/4th on the scale from "C" to "H" after extended warm up (100F ambient outside). I suspect it is possibly calcified from the old coolant and sitting for 9 years even after flushing the radiator 2 times (engine warm, cold to hot, heater on full to flush the heater core, etc.). I think the radiator may need replacement, but I don't have an infrared gun to check for hotspots and I'm trying to find the immediate stuff to fix before I throw parts at the car.
1/8 of the way up on the gauge is about 82 C (180F or so) at the waterpump housing. This is the temperature at which the thermostat cracks open. 1/4 of the way up is around 90-91 C or 195 F. Once you get past 1/4 of the way up you are right around 95 C (203 F). 95 C is when the thermostat opens fully per the FSM, and it is the temperature at which the auxiliary electric fan operates on some models. By the time you are 1/2 way up you are getting in the 100 C range (212 F) or more.
5) A/C has not been turned on, as I know, it is at the very least way low on freon. I don't know about this compressor, but based on my experience most Asian cars have efficient compressors that typically will come back to life if not abused. So, I'll do a leak test (no dye) and see if anything is holding. If so, I'll evacuate, flush and charge with Freeze12 and mineral oil and see how it works.
6) Michelin tires (14 years old) were not flat after sitting (amazing!), although I know they have flat spots and you can feel it at 61mph and 80mph (35psi in the tires). I used to like some Bridgestone tires a few years back but now I don't know what's good...any suggestions...(400 AA treadware, etc., TireRack, etc.)??
7) And, finally, the clutch pedal is "clicking" when depressed, and now after the trip, upon release. The sound is coming from the pedal (or area slightly above) and I'm guessing it's a missing nut or circlip at the pedel pivot, etc. I'll look at it tonight and probably find the problem, but, again any experience is appreciated.
There are two ways that this switch makes noise. Get under the dash and push the clutch in with your hand. The switch itself may have a messed up spring inside (mine has this currently). If you depress the little plunger with your finger and then release it, you may hear this spring making noise. The other source of noise has to do with the way the clutch pedal is designed. There is a rubber/plastic stopper on the pedal itself that the clutch switch normally rests against. This stopper can break from age. As you push the pedal in, the plunger on the switch will fall into a small hole where the stopper was mounted and make a noise. I have heard it is possible to order another stopper, but it is a very obscure part. Search, the part number may be somewhere, or you will have to look through the diagrams (available in the FAQ) to find it. The easier option is to tightly wrap the pedal in some duct tape or velcro or something--any suitable replacement for the clutch switch to rest on.
So.......a few questions--should I run lower or higher octane?
09-25-09, 12:37 AM
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Thank you!!!! Can't say how much I appreciate the experience.
Jeff
I'm going to pull the temp sensor and map the Ohms to Temp. Since I know the thermostat opens or is fully open at 180F, I'm going to assume it is either working properly or close to right.
I'll check things further but I think I may have to replace/re-recore the radiator to be safe.
Do you know the "C" and "H" equivalent? (Temperature on the gauge)
J
Jeff
I'm going to pull the temp sensor and map the Ohms to Temp. Since I know the thermostat opens or is fully open at 180F, I'm going to assume it is either working properly or close to right.
I'll check things further but I think I may have to replace/re-recore the radiator to be safe.
Do you know the "C" and "H" equivalent? (Temperature on the gauge)
J
Last edited by JEFF1988RX7SCOTTSDALE; 09-25-09 at 12:43 AM.
09-25-09, 05:00 AM
#4
Most people-myself included- prefer an aftermarket water temp gauge, even over the more responsive S4 stocker (my S5 stock unit is actually a glorified idiot light).
VDO makes inexpensive but quality gauges and there's no guessing about temps.
As for the radiator, if you still have execrable plastic tank stock unit, you're better off retiring it and going all metal.
This summer I obtained a Godspeed alloy rad and am very impressed with the quality and performance, especially for the price. It's thicker than stock, so if you're running the stock thermoclutch fan and shroud, you may have to tweak the shroud some.
VDO makes inexpensive but quality gauges and there's no guessing about temps.
As for the radiator, if you still have execrable plastic tank stock unit, you're better off retiring it and going all metal.
This summer I obtained a Godspeed alloy rad and am very impressed with the quality and performance, especially for the price. It's thicker than stock, so if you're running the stock thermoclutch fan and shroud, you may have to tweak the shroud some.
09-25-09, 07:40 AM
#5
I'm less confident about these numbers, but C is probably 70 C or around 160 F. That's right around the temperature where the fast idle cam begins to drop and idle speed should reach 750. The one time I overheated my engine (250F or so on an the aftermarket gauge) the needle had hit H. If could guess it's 120 C (248 F)
For an n/a s4 vert, I would not install an aftermarket temperature gauge. The gauge will have to be mounted somewhere and you'll be running wires etc. It's just ugly clutter and I would only install it if necessary. The stock s4 gauge is accurate enough, and combined with the coolant idiot light/buzzer you will know if something is wrong. This IMO makes the aftermarket gauge unneeded provided that your factory sending unit hasn't failed. The factory gauge sending units are pretty reliable; they last longer than the thermosensor for the ECU.
The stock radiator is a good unit too if it's in good condition. If it has a blockage or a cracked end tank then I would replace it, otherwise inspect it and leave it alone. It is a highly efficient unit for an n/a and will cause zero cooling issues. You should see how much bigger it is compared to the factory FD radiator even though that car has over 100 more horsepower than the n/a FC. The aftermarket FC units are either expensive (Fluidyne) or can have some level of fitment issues (especially autozone radiators)
For an n/a s4 vert, I would not install an aftermarket temperature gauge. The gauge will have to be mounted somewhere and you'll be running wires etc. It's just ugly clutter and I would only install it if necessary. The stock s4 gauge is accurate enough, and combined with the coolant idiot light/buzzer you will know if something is wrong. This IMO makes the aftermarket gauge unneeded provided that your factory sending unit hasn't failed. The factory gauge sending units are pretty reliable; they last longer than the thermosensor for the ECU.
The stock radiator is a good unit too if it's in good condition. If it has a blockage or a cracked end tank then I would replace it, otherwise inspect it and leave it alone. It is a highly efficient unit for an n/a and will cause zero cooling issues. You should see how much bigger it is compared to the factory FD radiator even though that car has over 100 more horsepower than the n/a FC. The aftermarket FC units are either expensive (Fluidyne) or can have some level of fitment issues (especially autozone radiators)
09-25-09, 09:08 AM
#6
You're in good hands with these guys posting...so I'll only add:
Get new tires very very soon. They could go any time, since you don't know how they're inside. Sometimes a tire holds air and looks perfect on the outside.
I could tell you a little story about a 1983 Mercedes 200 with 30,000km that ended up rolling afer a tire blowout and ride into a ditch in 2003.
GL.
Get new tires very very soon. They could go any time, since you don't know how they're inside. Sometimes a tire holds air and looks perfect on the outside.
I could tell you a little story about a 1983 Mercedes 200 with 30,000km that ended up rolling afer a tire blowout and ride into a ditch in 2003.
GL.
09-25-09, 09:34 AM
#7
I agree that the stock size isn't the problem- there's no compelling reason one HAS to go larger- but the construction certainly is.
A crimped/glued plastic endtank rad that's gone through 20 years of heat cycling is a timebomb waiting to fail.
I've seen all metal rads leak but until the composite rads became (inexplicably) popular, I'd never seen one completely fail...which I've personally witnessed two plastic tank rads do. They didn't just start dripping coolant, the endtanks split and completely evacuated the system in a matter of seconds.
Obviously, this does not constitute a large enough data set to make a sweeping generalization...it's possible that Jeff's rad could last till doomsday...but is that a reasonable bet to place?
I wouldn't.
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09-25-09, 01:12 PM
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All very good advice. I'll be replacing the tires right away, but I'm not sure I have the original radiator, or at least the plastic end-cap version mentioned above. I just looked at it and it doesn't seem to have any end caps, or at least it seems to be all metal. The overflow tank is factory and ahead of the radiator in the small area in the very front nose of the car. I had the shroud and fan off and I think I remember seeing a sticker on the radiator with a saguaro cactus symbol and "Performance Radiator". I guessing that is definitely not stock, but I don't know if that is a brand or possibly a local (Arizona) shop that just worked on it.
Jeff
Jeff
09-25-09, 02:40 PM
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each of these issues may be new to you jeff..
but they are ALL common, with many detailed threads on each.
so responses to this thread may not be detailed or complete.
seriously, it reads like you enjoy details AND specifics and most of that stuff IS IN THREADS already, so search is good.
stick with LOW octane fuel and go easy on the premix it will GUNK up the plugs IF the mop is working, and it probably is...
an easy way to "see" oil in the mop lines is change it ONCE with royal purple, it's easy to see in translucent lines.
the 3000 rpm phase is LESS than 20 seconds followed by drop downs to 750.
YOU can defeat this process or shorten by putting the car in GEAR, even without letting out on the clutch.
reads like the rad is not oem, but PHOTOS would really help, start adding them.
IF it were the oem rad, it would NOT have 20 years of HEAT CYCLES, since the car has been SITTING for 9 years?
my car has been parked for 2 long stretches (4 yrs and 6 yrs) and each hibernation was total.
upon waking, it started right up and ran fine. changed the coolant before/after each long spell without issues.
the oem rad and thermostat still work fine. the coolant has been tested and screened, there is NO gunk in it.
but with an afta market rad, any thing is possible.
since you aren't doing a FULL coolant change i'd suggest doing it 2-4 more times after short intervals in action.
even using distllled water only for a few days is ok and cheap.
be SURE the front belly pan is in place this helps with cooling...
____________________
reads like both the temp and oil pressure are NORMAL.
the temp gauge is VERY accurate and sensitive. kick on the HEATER and fan and it will drop a tiny bit quickly.
keep the fluids fresh and keep on updating bits (belts, hoses, lubricants, fluids and so on)
____________________
100s of threads on tires. that topic is like brake pads or oil brands/wts.
the oem tires were b'stone re71 in Z speeds. these were awesome dry tires, but noisy as they wore and VERY exciting in the wet stuff.
not a lot of choices in oem size (205/60-15) and the higher speed ratings even fewer choices.
i tried the bfgoodrich g-force for ONE day, didn't like 'em at all.
yoko has a direction tire similar to the oem
goodyear has 1 good option and 2-3 less good choices.
b'stone has 2 'ultra high performance' options but both are all season.
all season and ultra HIGH performance are oxymorons when combined but...
i opted for the b'stone re960 pole position a few months ago. first all season tire i've ever purchased.
they are quiet and so far performs well (grip/response/brakeaway) but the other choice (b'stone g-019 grid) would be ok too, maybe a bit louder.
there are other choices in 55 series or 215 which is are only a tad larger.
dunlop as a directional (direza? ) that i almost purchased, but it is NOT a good wet or cold weather tire.
the nice thing about the b'stones in 60 series is adjustability.
tweaking the pressures from 35 to 44 in small increments, NOTICEABLY impacts over/under steer and comfort and so on.
the vert body is STIFF and suspension firm, but was matched to 60 series tires for a reason. mazda COULD have used 45s or 50s but didn't.
so going LOWER profile or larger for tires, alters the ride negatively imo.
______________
hey jeff, how about some |PHOTOS of the car!
the advice WILL be a lot more specific based on COLOR, lets see it bro...
henry
but they are ALL common, with many detailed threads on each.
so responses to this thread may not be detailed or complete.
seriously, it reads like you enjoy details AND specifics and most of that stuff IS IN THREADS already, so search is good.
stick with LOW octane fuel and go easy on the premix it will GUNK up the plugs IF the mop is working, and it probably is...
an easy way to "see" oil in the mop lines is change it ONCE with royal purple, it's easy to see in translucent lines.
the 3000 rpm phase is LESS than 20 seconds followed by drop downs to 750.
YOU can defeat this process or shorten by putting the car in GEAR, even without letting out on the clutch.
reads like the rad is not oem, but PHOTOS would really help, start adding them.
IF it were the oem rad, it would NOT have 20 years of HEAT CYCLES, since the car has been SITTING for 9 years?
my car has been parked for 2 long stretches (4 yrs and 6 yrs) and each hibernation was total.
upon waking, it started right up and ran fine. changed the coolant before/after each long spell without issues.
the oem rad and thermostat still work fine. the coolant has been tested and screened, there is NO gunk in it.
but with an afta market rad, any thing is possible.
since you aren't doing a FULL coolant change i'd suggest doing it 2-4 more times after short intervals in action.
even using distllled water only for a few days is ok and cheap.
be SURE the front belly pan is in place this helps with cooling...
____________________
reads like both the temp and oil pressure are NORMAL.
the temp gauge is VERY accurate and sensitive. kick on the HEATER and fan and it will drop a tiny bit quickly.
keep the fluids fresh and keep on updating bits (belts, hoses, lubricants, fluids and so on)
____________________
100s of threads on tires. that topic is like brake pads or oil brands/wts.
the oem tires were b'stone re71 in Z speeds. these were awesome dry tires, but noisy as they wore and VERY exciting in the wet stuff.
not a lot of choices in oem size (205/60-15) and the higher speed ratings even fewer choices.
i tried the bfgoodrich g-force for ONE day, didn't like 'em at all.
yoko has a direction tire similar to the oem
goodyear has 1 good option and 2-3 less good choices.
b'stone has 2 'ultra high performance' options but both are all season.
all season and ultra HIGH performance are oxymorons when combined but...
i opted for the b'stone re960 pole position a few months ago. first all season tire i've ever purchased.
they are quiet and so far performs well (grip/response/brakeaway) but the other choice (b'stone g-019 grid) would be ok too, maybe a bit louder.
there are other choices in 55 series or 215 which is are only a tad larger.
dunlop as a directional (direza? ) that i almost purchased, but it is NOT a good wet or cold weather tire.
the nice thing about the b'stones in 60 series is adjustability.
tweaking the pressures from 35 to 44 in small increments, NOTICEABLY impacts over/under steer and comfort and so on.
the vert body is STIFF and suspension firm, but was matched to 60 series tires for a reason. mazda COULD have used 45s or 50s but didn't.
so going LOWER profile or larger for tires, alters the ride negatively imo.
______________
hey jeff, how about some |PHOTOS of the car!
the advice WILL be a lot more specific based on COLOR, lets see it bro...
henry
Last edited by openrx; 09-25-09 at 02:45 PM.
09-25-09, 06:13 PM
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Thank you for all the useful information! As many small things are in the works, I haven't been tending the posts as quickly, but I love the response...much appreciated.
Funny that I ended up with the BridgeStone RE960's also! Just put them on this afternoon and I'm looking to check them this evening after some further minor things.
New Axxix Deluxe Plus pads coming tomorrow.
I have been taking tons of pics of the engine rejuvination process, but not too many of the outside as I have not had the time to detail the paint yet. Also, I just figured out how to attach a picture (adding the Qoutes to a response is next). The car will look great I'm sure (no rust, white with blue leather interior, no rips, very little ware). I just wanted to steam clean the carpets and take off 9 years of dust before I show it off :-)
Jeff
Also, sorry for the new questions that have already been answered in detail in past threads. I generally search first always and have found a large amount of information...obviously I'm sure I am asking NOTHING new, but I'm still getting used to the searching procedure. Generally when I search I get a lot of very tangential information. I don't know how to hone in on my topic too well at this point.
Funny that I ended up with the BridgeStone RE960's also! Just put them on this afternoon and I'm looking to check them this evening after some further minor things.
New Axxix Deluxe Plus pads coming tomorrow.
I have been taking tons of pics of the engine rejuvination process, but not too many of the outside as I have not had the time to detail the paint yet. Also, I just figured out how to attach a picture (adding the Qoutes to a response is next). The car will look great I'm sure (no rust, white with blue leather interior, no rips, very little ware). I just wanted to steam clean the carpets and take off 9 years of dust before I show it off :-)
Jeff
Also, sorry for the new questions that have already been answered in detail in past threads. I generally search first always and have found a large amount of information...obviously I'm sure I am asking NOTHING new, but I'm still getting used to the searching procedure. Generally when I search I get a lot of very tangential information. I don't know how to hone in on my topic too well at this point.
Last edited by JEFF1988RX7SCOTTSDALE; 09-25-09 at 06:18 PM.
09-25-09, 08:06 PM
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always use 'advanced search' tools...
search in vbulletin is an acquired skill.
works best with ONLY ONE WORD, there is no boolean or +/paired word feature.
common topics LIMIT THE SEARCH TO TITLES ONLY...
this will narrow the results.
next, learn to limit search to one SUB forum like "wheels" or "2nd generation"
and IF you are looking for ONE PERSON's response on a topic put the member name IN that box.
for example, looking for info on convertible engine mounts?
search ONLY the word mounts in titles...
limit to '2nd generation' forums only...
and if jethro has 20,000 posts and is famous for engine issues, put 'jethro' in the member's name...
_________________
another approach is to use GOOGLE search with does used multiword techniques.
so using g' search type convertible engine mounts site:rx7club.com...
and only a few relevant hits appear (you might need to use motor vs engine for more results,
since many folks call that spinning triangle the M word.
in no way am i suggesting that you NOT ask questions, but in my brief time here my observation is...
LACK of response usually means stfa on the common bits, leaving only the newbies (like me) and really nice guys to respond.
the re960 like snow tires and many all seasons has a lot of "mold release stuff" on the surface...
so they may take 100-500 miles of action to fully burn/throw that goop off and get sticky.
i'm running 37-39 psi which seems to make them as responsive as firmer/block tread tires.
cheers
henry
09-26-09, 09:21 AM
#13
Hey Jeff-
Sounds like you are getting it sorted. Glad you moved fast on the tires. 80 mph on 14 yo tires is Russian Roulette.
Regarding the A/C, let me give you some tips:
Freeze12 is a great alternative, close to R12 in performance. You should not use Mineral oil if you are converting to Freeze12, even though they recommend it. ACkits.com did a very thorough alternative refrigerant test vs. both 134a and R12. Freeze12 performed quite well in cooling. The only negative comment regarding Freeze12 is that the mineral oil was *BARELY* miscible in the refrigerant, thus they were concerned about long term durability. http://www.ackits.com/testresults/alttest.pdf You should use Ester oil which is great for 134a (85% of Freeze12) and also works quite well with R12. Ester also has no compatibility issues with residual mineral oil. FWIW I am using Ester in my system with R12 since 2005 with excellent performance and no issues whatsoever.
Avoid PAG oils at all cost. They do not tolerate residual R12 (chlorine) nor are they compatible with any traces of mineral oil. PAG is a great thing for OEM in a new system, but not a good idea for retrofitters.
You should replace the drier before you recharge. Old (factory installed, Pre-1994) driers are not compatible with Ester and Freeze12 (R134a). The 'bag' that holds the desiccant beads will slowly dissolve, eventually allowing the desiccant to scatter throughout the system. This causes major problems. The new drier you purchase will be compatible with both R12 and Freeze12, Mineral and Ester. Just make sure you take your current drier in with you to the parts store. Insist that you leave with one that perfectly matches. You will find many threads concerning members buying the wrong drier online. Big pain in the butt. Buy it local and get the right one the first time.
Good Luck!
I respectfully disagree with ARGHX about the RX7 A/C system. Correctly operating, it works great for me. It even does a pretty fine job of keeping me cool with the top down, windblocker up and the side windows up in hot weather. I live in one of the most difficult A/C areas in the US. We have most of the heat of Arizona and most of the Humidity of Florida. Few places have that nasty combination. Do it right and you should be satisfied with the results.
Sounds like you are getting it sorted. Glad you moved fast on the tires. 80 mph on 14 yo tires is Russian Roulette.
Regarding the A/C, let me give you some tips:
Freeze12 is a great alternative, close to R12 in performance. You should not use Mineral oil if you are converting to Freeze12, even though they recommend it. ACkits.com did a very thorough alternative refrigerant test vs. both 134a and R12. Freeze12 performed quite well in cooling. The only negative comment regarding Freeze12 is that the mineral oil was *BARELY* miscible in the refrigerant, thus they were concerned about long term durability. http://www.ackits.com/testresults/alttest.pdf You should use Ester oil which is great for 134a (85% of Freeze12) and also works quite well with R12. Ester also has no compatibility issues with residual mineral oil. FWIW I am using Ester in my system with R12 since 2005 with excellent performance and no issues whatsoever.
Avoid PAG oils at all cost. They do not tolerate residual R12 (chlorine) nor are they compatible with any traces of mineral oil. PAG is a great thing for OEM in a new system, but not a good idea for retrofitters.
You should replace the drier before you recharge. Old (factory installed, Pre-1994) driers are not compatible with Ester and Freeze12 (R134a). The 'bag' that holds the desiccant beads will slowly dissolve, eventually allowing the desiccant to scatter throughout the system. This causes major problems. The new drier you purchase will be compatible with both R12 and Freeze12, Mineral and Ester. Just make sure you take your current drier in with you to the parts store. Insist that you leave with one that perfectly matches. You will find many threads concerning members buying the wrong drier online. Big pain in the butt. Buy it local and get the right one the first time.
Good Luck!
I respectfully disagree with ARGHX about the RX7 A/C system. Correctly operating, it works great for me. It even does a pretty fine job of keeping me cool with the top down, windblocker up and the side windows up in hot weather. I live in one of the most difficult A/C areas in the US. We have most of the heat of Arizona and most of the Humidity of Florida. Few places have that nasty combination. Do it right and you should be satisfied with the results.
09-26-09, 11:02 AM
#14
Originally Posted by jackhild59
I respectfully disagree with ARGHX about the RX7 A/C system. Correctly operating, it works great for me. It even does a pretty fine job of keeping me cool with the top down, windblocker up and the side windows up in hot weather. I live in one of the most difficult A/C areas in the US. We have most of the heat of Arizona and most of the Humidity of Florida. Few places have that nasty combination. Do it right and you should be satisfied with the results.
Originally Posted by arghx
the biggest weakness in the FC is the shitty blower motors they all have.
Maybe you have a factory freak or something? Or maybe it's been a while since you rode in a car with a truly high performing HVAC system. My Q45 worked great in the Arizona desert, and works great in the heat and humidity of NC. No Rx-7 has ever performed comparably, and as I said before they are usually worse than run-of-the-mill cars.
09-26-09, 02:59 PM
#15
Every Rx-7 I've owned or driven had a very slow blower motor compared to either new/newer cars (shitboxes even) or other cars from that era. The cfm flow from the rx-7 vents at max blower motor load does not compare favorably to other cars. My father's 99 corolla blows harder. My 97 infiniti blows harder. My 89 supra blew harder. The only blower motor worse than an FC's is an FD blower motor.
Maybe you have a factory freak or something? Or maybe it's been a while since you rode in a car with a truly high performing HVAC system. My Q45 worked great in the Arizona desert, and works great in the heat and humidity of NC. No Rx-7 has ever performed comparably, and as I said before they are usually worse than run-of-the-mill cars.
Maybe you have a factory freak or something? Or maybe it's been a while since you rode in a car with a truly high performing HVAC system. My Q45 worked great in the Arizona desert, and works great in the heat and humidity of NC. No Rx-7 has ever performed comparably, and as I said before they are usually worse than run-of-the-mill cars.
That all being said, the FC works fine when it is working correctly. It is possible that my blower is in good shape, that the evaporator coil is clean, the control unit's seals and flaps work better than most.
It is more likely that having 34-35* air blowing out of the vents makes up for the inherent limits of the compact system. This is why I run the two-speed taurus fan with high switched by the A/C compressor. I have the very best vent temp possible in all conditions.
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/hows-your-c-doing-759808/
This winter I am installing the largest parallel flow condenser that will fit, converting the gas used to R500 (74% R12 and 25% R152a by weight). This will increase the heat moving capacity of the system by approximately 25%. Why? How about a temperature controlled intercooler?
09-26-09, 10:28 PM
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Regarding the A/C, let me give you some tips:
Freeze12 is a great alternative, close to R12 in performance. You should not use Mineral oil if you are converting to Freeze12, even though they recommend it. ACkits.com did a very thorough alternative refrigerant test vs. both 134a and R12. Freeze12 performed quite well in cooling. The only negative comment regarding Freeze12 is that the mineral oil was *BARELY* miscible in the refrigerant, thus they were concerned about long term durability. http://www.ackits.com/testresults/alttest.pdf You should use Ester oil which is great for 134a (85% of Freeze12) and also works quite well with R12. Ester also has no compatibility issues with residual mineral oil. FWIW I am using Ester in my system with R12 since 2005 with excellent performance and no issues whatsoever.
Freeze12 is a great alternative, close to R12 in performance. You should not use Mineral oil if you are converting to Freeze12, even though they recommend it. ACkits.com did a very thorough alternative refrigerant test vs. both 134a and R12. Freeze12 performed quite well in cooling. The only negative comment regarding Freeze12 is that the mineral oil was *BARELY* miscible in the refrigerant, thus they were concerned about long term durability. http://www.ackits.com/testresults/alttest.pdf You should use Ester oil which is great for 134a (85% of Freeze12) and also works quite well with R12. Ester also has no compatibility issues with residual mineral oil. FWIW I am using Ester in my system with R12 since 2005 with excellent performance and no issues whatsoever.
Thank you for the correction on the proper oil to use with Freeze12. I did a lot of research back when it was new and didn't remember what the compatibility was. My assumption was that since Freeze12 was compatible with R12 systems and mineral oil was basically (please ignore my vagueness here) what they use, it would be okay. I will follow the links you gave and get my knowledge up to speed.
BUT...more to the point...I just took my "new" 88 vert out for a drive with the new tires and a green lamp on the dash to monitor open/closed loop operation. I have to take the time to properly set the TPS and idle speed (it starts at 750 but sometimes climbs to 900 after warmup. Also I still have the boost sensor code coming up so I don't know how that might affect idle). But, THIS IS WHAT I REMEMBER THE RX7 WAS ALL ABOUT!!!! FUN!! WOW!! The clutch is like butter now that things are lubricated (a little rubber stopper was missing which allowed one of the plunger switches to slip off the pedal and bind and then snap back upon clutch release). Also, both secondary port actuators are now functioning great because the greased shafts are both clean!!!!
Work in progress:
Wet sanded the paint with 2000 to remove the crud and yellowing under the "Le Bra".
Steam cleaned the carpeting with the seats out.
Will be finishing the paint either tonight or tomorrow.
More conditioning to the leather seats is required but they are really coming out nice...no wear hardly at all and no rips or pulled out seams. I think I caught it just in time.
ANYWAY... I'm going to start another thread for all the followup and I WILL post pictures!, but I just ran out of light last night and didn't finish the paint yet so I don't want to act so proud of something that doesn't look as good as I feel about it. But right now--I HAVE TO GO DRIVE IT!!!!!
Jeff
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