Column Mounted Switchgear- A Journey Into Madness
03-27-12, 05:15 PM
#1
Column Mounted Switchgear- A Journey Into Madness
Some of my projects arise from need, some from serendipity and some from simple curiosity.
This one is a bit of all three.
If you've owned your car for some time or even just perused this forum for a while, you've met the infamous FC electrical system...it's getting old and some of it's faults have risen from anecdotal rumor to commonly acknowledged weak spots.
Wiper and headlight problems seem to abound and even though my switchgear is currently fully functional, I started thinking about "fixing" it.
Priced any of our switchgear new lately?
Mazdatrix will sell you a new headlight switch for $360, a new wiper switch for $711 and doesn't list the turn signal at all...so I guess it's "priceless" (see what I did there?).
Over the past few years, FCs in the junkyard are very rare; don't think I've seen a single one in a year, actually.
Our switches are also extremely proprietary, they are nothing like the gear found in any other car, so finding a replacement from another- hopefully more common- vehicle just ain't gonna happen.
There are any number of writeups detailing repair of the switches, I've read many/most of them but decided to attempt something more radical (for which I have hidden agenda reasons anyway).
I'm going to attempt to replace all the switchgear with more common (cheaper!) column mounted stalks.
This is not a trivial matter, there's more to it than I thought.
There are three main areas to consider:
-Physically fitting the part to the steering column
-Adapting the electrical to function
-Modifying the bezel (now shorn of switches) to fit.
I've done some preliminary research into the first two concerns, the bezel work will have to wait till at least the first step is complete.
I'm not terribly concerned with the electrical aspect, I'm pretty good with that stuff.
Actually mounting the part seems to be the kicker right now and it's unclear how weird that might get.
I made three trips to the junkyard and disassembled maybe twenty cars steering columns (pulled the wheels and column switches), studying how they're assembled and what looked suitable.
This morning I took apart my column to see what I was working with, then went back to the yard and made a purchase.
I'll clean it up and post some pics later.
The whimsical journey will continue.
This one is a bit of all three.
If you've owned your car for some time or even just perused this forum for a while, you've met the infamous FC electrical system...it's getting old and some of it's faults have risen from anecdotal rumor to commonly acknowledged weak spots.
Wiper and headlight problems seem to abound and even though my switchgear is currently fully functional, I started thinking about "fixing" it.
Priced any of our switchgear new lately?
Mazdatrix will sell you a new headlight switch for $360, a new wiper switch for $711 and doesn't list the turn signal at all...so I guess it's "priceless" (see what I did there?).
Over the past few years, FCs in the junkyard are very rare; don't think I've seen a single one in a year, actually.
Our switches are also extremely proprietary, they are nothing like the gear found in any other car, so finding a replacement from another- hopefully more common- vehicle just ain't gonna happen.
There are any number of writeups detailing repair of the switches, I've read many/most of them but decided to attempt something more radical (for which I have hidden agenda reasons anyway).
I'm going to attempt to replace all the switchgear with more common (cheaper!) column mounted stalks.
This is not a trivial matter, there's more to it than I thought.
There are three main areas to consider:
-Physically fitting the part to the steering column
-Adapting the electrical to function
-Modifying the bezel (now shorn of switches) to fit.
I've done some preliminary research into the first two concerns, the bezel work will have to wait till at least the first step is complete.
I'm not terribly concerned with the electrical aspect, I'm pretty good with that stuff.
Actually mounting the part seems to be the kicker right now and it's unclear how weird that might get.
I made three trips to the junkyard and disassembled maybe twenty cars steering columns (pulled the wheels and column switches), studying how they're assembled and what looked suitable.
This morning I took apart my column to see what I was working with, then went back to the yard and made a purchase.
I'll clean it up and post some pics later.
The whimsical journey will continue.
03-27-12, 07:07 PM
#4
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anyone seen the interior of a ford probe lately? I remember them resembling the FC dash, probably still completely different mounting but i would check one out next time you hit the junkyard
03-28-12, 07:59 AM
#6
Like a G6
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OMG! Really? Like, really? People are parting out their cars all the time. Get some, and choose the best working/looking and be done. Not that I don't admire your enthusiasm, it just seems kind of unneeded...
Riz.
Riz.
03-28-12, 08:09 AM
#7
A paddle gearbox would be so insanely awesome on an FC words couldn't describe. If the paddle gearbox fary bestowed one upon my FC magically and I woke up to find it I would very literally cry in joy embracing my steering wheel like it was a long lost lover.
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03-28-12, 09:14 AM
#8
Engine, Not Motor
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Steering column swap from an older RX-7 or other Mazda car? Columns can be cut down fairly easily if too long.
Might be more effort than simply fixing broken stock switches though. The procedures are fairly well documented and the parts are cheap.
Might be more effort than simply fixing broken stock switches though. The procedures are fairly well documented and the parts are cheap.
03-28-12, 09:30 AM
#9
Buying used and hoping the part doesn't have the same issue you started with is certainly an option...one I've exercised in the past my very own self.
Now I'm exploring a different approach to the problem.
It might help if I define "the problem" as I see it.
Our switches come from the dawn of the Japanese love affair with electronics.
They not only must accept physical input (turn **** to activate wipers) but they incorporate electronics to process the input and send it onward.
Mazda is fond of running power through the switches, so they include relays as well.
They ganged multiple functions into one switch unit...if the headlights go, you're also forced to replace two other switches that may still be perfectly fine. Same with the wiper switch, that's why they're so expensive.
All this stuff is now at least twenty years old...how much electronica from the eighties are you still using daily?
With one (hopefully minor) exception, trying the column mount switches will be completely reversible- from a mechanical standpoint at least...the bezel will probably be permanently altered (if I get that far)- and will allow for a better electrical system in the future.
Maybe.
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
Steering column swap from an older RX-7 or other Mazda car? Columns can be cut down fairly easily if too long.
Might be more effort than simply fixing broken stock switches though. The procedures are fairly well documented and the parts are cheap.
Might be more effort than simply fixing broken stock switches though. The procedures are fairly well documented and the parts are cheap.
You're also correct about the switches...probably much easier to continue nursing them along and I'd expect that's what most here will do.
03-28-12, 11:42 AM
#11
Unlike many of these exploratory projects, this one requires the only permanent change happen right away.
Here's why...
This is the stock steering wheel angle sensor mounted on the column, clearly it must go.
Removing it leaves the mount bracket which is tacked to the column surround tube.
Naturally, this bracket does not align with the new switch, so it too must go.
Beyond this point, the Mazda switch will no longer fit and I've lost TS self cancel capability till the new switch is installed.
I've temporarily reinstalled the bezel w/ stock switches and the steering wheel so the car is driveable as I ponder the next steps.
Here's a shot of the new switchgear:
It will require it's own mount bracket fabbed and somehow attached to the column.
Offhand I can think of three ways to do this, so I have some deciding to do.
I also need to ohm out the wiring to see what is what.
More to come.
Here's why...
This is the stock steering wheel angle sensor mounted on the column, clearly it must go.
Removing it leaves the mount bracket which is tacked to the column surround tube.
Naturally, this bracket does not align with the new switch, so it too must go.
Beyond this point, the Mazda switch will no longer fit and I've lost TS self cancel capability till the new switch is installed.
I've temporarily reinstalled the bezel w/ stock switches and the steering wheel so the car is driveable as I ponder the next steps.
Here's a shot of the new switchgear:
It will require it's own mount bracket fabbed and somehow attached to the column.
Offhand I can think of three ways to do this, so I have some deciding to do.
I also need to ohm out the wiring to see what is what.
More to come.
03-28-12, 12:03 PM
#12
I started to do something similar once. It was all on paper, as I was trying to figure out an electrical schematic for the wipers. I think it's stupid how the wiper switch incorporates random stuff. For some, it's just the wipers and hazards. I don't even know what the other button on Clokker's is. Mine has a switch for lowering the convertible top. So finding one that has all the functions you need is usually an expensive crap shoot. The problem I ran into was trying to figure out how to interface the wipers (for instance, what circuitry makes the wipers return to the bottom and stay there?). I couldn't find any good electrical schematics that helped me, so the project faded away. I hope the best for you man.
I guess I'm old, then. The first thing I thought of was a "3 on the tree". How awkward would that look on a sports car 
Originally Posted by Sharingan 19
You are obviously young if the first thing that comes to mind when you hear "column shifter" are Ferrari's and GTR's....
03-28-12, 02:33 PM
#15
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Amazing Clokker! im on "bought used replacement" 6 of my headlight switch and am so fed up of buying bad wiper switches that my wipers are currently on a 3 way toggle switch. i have low speed and high speed, i found someone that's going to be rebuilding one for me soon though (thankfully). i can't wait to see this figured out.
i admire your problem solving strategies and must admit, if i wasn't planning to switch to full aftermarket gauges i was planning to swap in the miata cluster lol.
thanks Clokker and keep up the good work
i admire your problem solving strategies and must admit, if i wasn't planning to switch to full aftermarket gauges i was planning to swap in the miata cluster lol.
thanks Clokker and keep up the good work
03-28-12, 02:44 PM
#16
Ban Peak
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I've been on the same original headlight switches in both my cars, one has 85K, the other has 156K.
Just keep you exterior bulb sockets clean.
The wiper switches do wear out when they get too much moisture in the contacts. Both of mine are rebuilt with better relays.
03-28-12, 03:01 PM
#17
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interesting. the 90+ verts have airbags, with normal column mounted stalks, so there might be some stock parts that will work, like the meter hood. (ive got one if you need it)
the only problem i see with this, is that since every other mazda has stalks, there should be plenty of selection, but everything newer is designed for an airbag, which means some custom fabbing/adapting.
my first thought would be to use miata switch gear...
the only problem i see with this, is that since every other mazda has stalks, there should be plenty of selection, but everything newer is designed for an airbag, which means some custom fabbing/adapting.
my first thought would be to use miata switch gear...
03-28-12, 04:34 PM
#18
j9fd3s is correct about the airbag but it's not a real big deal.
Airbag equipped cars (like the 2001 Nissan Ultima I scavenged) use a "clockspring" device between the steering wheel and the switch body.
This is how they can carry all the signals for horn, airbag and cruise...but all I care about is the horn (one wire).
I unbolted the clockspring from my unit because it added an extra 1/2" of depth- which I couldn't spare- and it's easy enough to add in a normal slipring later.
A Miata would have been an optimal suspect but there were none to be found where I hunt.
I am very intrigued by the convertible "meter hood" (bezel assy., I assume?), could you shoot me a pic?
Airbag equipped cars (like the 2001 Nissan Ultima I scavenged) use a "clockspring" device between the steering wheel and the switch body.
This is how they can carry all the signals for horn, airbag and cruise...but all I care about is the horn (one wire).
I unbolted the clockspring from my unit because it added an extra 1/2" of depth- which I couldn't spare- and it's easy enough to add in a normal slipring later.
A Miata would have been an optimal suspect but there were none to be found where I hunt.
I am very intrigued by the convertible "meter hood" (bezel assy., I assume?), could you shoot me a pic?
03-28-12, 07:25 PM
#19
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j9fd3s is correct about the airbag but it's not a real big deal.
Airbag equipped cars (like the 2001 Nissan Ultima I scavenged) use a "clockspring" device between the steering wheel and the switch body.
This is how they can carry all the signals for horn, airbag and cruise...but all I care about is the horn (one wire).
I unbolted the clockspring from my unit because it added an extra 1/2" of depth- which I couldn't spare- and it's easy enough to add in a normal slipring later.
A Miata would have been an optimal suspect but there were none to be found where I hunt.
I am very intrigued by the convertible "meter hood" (bezel assy., I assume?), could you shoot me a pic?
Airbag equipped cars (like the 2001 Nissan Ultima I scavenged) use a "clockspring" device between the steering wheel and the switch body.
This is how they can carry all the signals for horn, airbag and cruise...but all I care about is the horn (one wire).
I unbolted the clockspring from my unit because it added an extra 1/2" of depth- which I couldn't spare- and it's easy enough to add in a normal slipring later.
A Miata would have been an optimal suspect but there were none to be found where I hunt.
I am very intrigued by the convertible "meter hood" (bezel assy., I assume?), could you shoot me a pic?
oh actually yay for searching... he sent me the pic before i picked it up. http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrismo...n/photostream/
03-28-12, 07:47 PM
#21
Hmm... didn't know that. My original wiper switch stopped working on everything except fast, and also wouldn't park. I bought a rebuilt wiper switch (after trying to research the same thing you are doing, then subsequently gave up) from another member and the issue was fixed.
03-28-12, 08:09 PM
#23
Another interesting project, clokker. The switchgear in an FC is certainly one of the items that has not stood the test of time. I've always thought they were unique and quirky, but finding suitable stock replacements is certainly a challenge at times.
03-28-12, 09:45 PM
#24
There still appear to be wiper and light switches in the bezel...if so, what are the column stalks for, TS and cruise only?
Originally Posted by Rob XX 7
What are those from? Mazda 6?
03-28-12, 10:52 PM
#25
I'm 27 bromigo what's with the disrespect? I like paddle shifts. I also didn't mention anything about Ferrari and GTR so I am not sure where that came from. I have wanted to convert mine to a paddle shifting unit to make downshifting easier because I wear size 16 4E shoe's and I am 6'6 which makes it a little hard for me to "heal toe" because I could heal toe all three peddles. For someone rocking the Kakashi gif you're awfully judgmental.