I don't know about those knock sensor lights. It doesn't say how sensitive they are, and from what I can tell there is really no way to tell the difference between a light knock and a solid knock. knock sensors often pick up things rattling, it might get kind of annoying to have a flashing light when your just cruising down the highway. Or if it thinks a knock count of 25 is dangerous so it stays lit up the whole time you're under boost. From what I have seen knock sensors more or less have to be looked at on an individual basis, so unless the light is configurable it might just throw out erroneous flashes on many different setups.

If the Haltech supports the stock knock sensor that should be enough, or if there is an aftermarket knock sensor with a 0-5v signal that can be logged, (i'm sure there is) then thats another option.

But I guess that wouldn't help if something suddenly failed after you're done tuning and no longer logging. In this case maybe a light would be helpful. I know the PFC/Datalogit support flashing either the overheat light, or the CEL, and the knock threshold is configurable. I never bothered hooking it up though. The US cars have to have a wire run to the correct pins in order for it to work.

 

From what I understand, the Knocklite is configurable. There's some procedure you have to go through so the unit can "record" the frequencies the engine makes as you rev from idle all the way to redline. From there, it can then discern knock away from normal engine sound. Don't know however if anyone in the community has used it. I'd prefer to use two of them; one on each rotor housing and with factory FD knock sensors. They seem to be reliable.

The older Haltechs have a Spare A/D (analog/digital) 5V input but I'd rather not use it for logging knock and instead use it for something else.

Yep. I'd rather have the, "hey! your car is about to blow up!" light in my face.

B

 

will this bad boy be doing the quater mile? what are the expectations for a trap speed? how heavy is the FC with you in it? will be the ultimate test of what power you should crank out? opinions?

 

The last time I weighed it it was 2720lbs wet w/o me. That was before the roll cage. I have no idea how much weight that added.

I hope to run it in the 1/4 again. I used to do straight line 8th mi stuff 10 years ago and was running 7.60's to 8 flat on drag radials with traps between 96-97mph. Hope to break 100mph in the 8th and break a 10.99 in the 1/4.

My interest in the alcohol experiment, alongside the whole no intercooler thing, is to see how much power I can produce on pump gas w/ alcohol. There's a small handful that've done 500. I want to do that w/o the IC and perhaps higher. Goal is to get to 30psi of boost on this setup before the whole thing grenades into shrapnel.

B

 

Engine is hopefully going in in a couple of days. Will get some photos. The engine bay looks nasty having sat for over a year. It'll need some cleanup.

 

For those of you that are truly interested and not too hell bent on trying to purposefully muck this thread up, the alcohol injection system I use was over $700 and is pretty much top of the line for its type. It's a progressive system that references 5V off a GM MAP sensor for determining load. It has three adjustments: Initial (initial pump voltage), TurnOn (5V MAP sensor turn-on point), and Gain (ramp of pump voltage as boost increases). It seems to be designed to be robust.

http://www.alkycontrol.com/

We originally ran into this system back in summer 2006. I was told about it by Howard when he stumbled across the TurboBuick.com website during his early research on water/alcohol injection. The Buick GN/Turbo Regal guys use it with wild success. We saw post after post from guys who installed it, tuned it, and ran huge boost and made terrific power. That's what drove us to it. During the time, we couldn't find anybody else that could show us this even though we saw lots and lots of claims.

I'm a pragmatist and based on my experience, this works. True, it doesn't have the more sophisticated cell by cell tuning capability like the FJO system or some others that may be available, but nonetheless it works. I use it to re-create the top 3rd portion of a "lost" fuel curve that I systematically remove from a 100% gasoline tuned map.

Here comes the "but it's a different car and engine!" excuse which means all of the rules suddenly don't apply...

 

I have a burning question and it's one I hate to ask: is there's a problem with spark scatter on the older Haltech ECU's due to the use of the Internal Reluctor? It's why I'm switching back to the MSD boxes to run a Hall Effect input to the ECU. I've been told by a couple folks there is and it evidences itself a way high RPM. /shrug

B

 

i'm not sure what the actual problem is, but if you look at the hardware progression of the haltech, the e6a only reads hall effect sensors, to use it on the rx7's you have to use the MSD 8505 boxes. (its kind of fun that PKO has a box of e6a's)

then they made the reluctor internal, so maybe its an add on?

it also seems some are completely fine, which might point to an installation problem? or a QC problem in the ecu... the fact that you have to do a ton or rewiring to put it in isn't good either

it also could be a weird bug in the software that occasionally messes up the toggle signal to the trailing coil, firing the trailing 180 degrees off, or 90 degrees off, is BAD.

i dunno i like the e6k, but i'd be mapping it like its totally unreliable

 

Tescono told me about the spark scatter he saw on his car. I think he was using the K model but can't be sure. He stuck a timing gun on one of the Leadings during a dyno IIRC and saw the timing mark bounce around some past 7krpm. I'd have to ask him again to verify the details but it was something like that and the jist I got out of it was it was due to the internal reluctors on the Haltech converting CAS trigger/home signals over.

I ran the MSD 8509 boxes on mine when I first installed my E6K back in Feb 2000. I ran them for a couple years and didn't seem to have issues with noise or bouncy tacho or anything and during that first year I frequently ran it down the 8th mi up to just over 8000rpm. Didn't seem to have any issues. So, I don't know what to think. Some may think I'm grasping at straws, but I'm not the only person suspicious of it.

B

 

now that was some good info for someone who wants to play with this abit. thanks alot for that. just one thing about point 4 i think it was. at 18:1 afr would that not do motor damage? just a questions seems like you could figure a way to set it up so if it runs out or spikes really high afr it could cut boost or something? new to this whole thing but seems like you could make something to better protect your motor no? good work so far got the pics of motor in yet?

 

To my knowledge, the only real protection out there is ignition retard from a (usually independent) knock meter. And, most folks don't use those. I'm not a fan of hard fuel and spark cuts as I'm in the camp that believes they can cause a chain reaction that will damage the motor even under normal running conditions. I had an idea on something but haven't set anything up. Might be too complex to do. I think our engines are better served through a pneumatic cut of some sort.

Thanks. It's not in yet. I'd like to get it in this weekend but I don't think it'll happen. Got too much on my plate.

B

 

BDC~
thank you for sharing your build. i have long since been a fan of your work and passion with rotaries. there are some things you say that i don't subscribe to and some of it simply baffles me, but i'm in a position to respect it all, regardless of my thoughts, and i do.
i want to see you put this thing back together and carry on. whether this engine succeeds or fails as you conduct your experiment, you will still wield a victory, the only unknown is how great or shallow that victory will be. there will be new information, regardless. you've already accepted possible failure and that's really all that matters here. it's your car, your money, your goals and your time. the bottomline is you don't need support or validation from me, or anyone else. though, for the record, i do respect your efforts.

 

Thank you. I appreciate that. Would love to talk to you more in private about your ideas.

B

 

I've known Brian for a long time. He knows what he's doing and his work is top notch.

He was down here in Houston over the weekend helping an RX-8 road race team build a Renesis motor so he's been away from his engine for a little bit. Good seeing you again Brian! Now get back to work!

BTW: It's my sig that says "If you aren't testing, you are guessing." I assure you he isn't guessing. He's testing. Then again many tests start with a guess. It's the test that proves whether it is valid or not. I may have to update my sig now. Hmmm....

 

Installed the MSD 8509's today. No more internal reluctors. The car is a mess. Needs major clean up before the engine is re-installed. Next up is wiring in the 2nd EGT gauge and wideband into the cockpit.

B

 

Ok there is way too much going on here for me to read it all. With that said for the OP using AI as a charge cooler is nothing new & really just a band aid for not running a air to air or a water to air where packaging restraints might be an issue. Yes we have seen vehicles run only AI even rotary drag cars, but does that mean it's the best way to go? As far as things going wrong like pump failure, clogged system or a leak I think issues would be seen. Relying on such a system in a non-track type vehicle may be a chance not worth taking. A correctly sized & designed intercooler should provide the results one is looking for performance. AI on top of the standard IC is a great mix. I say lets see the results not a bunch of talk what it should do, because it honestly means nothing. Good guy or bad guy doesn't determine if a builder is knows his ****. A good builder will admit to any mistakes & will do right by the customer. I guess I will say good luck to the OP, but without results this is pointless.

 

Glad you brought this up. I've got a very long thread dedicated to the hotair experiment when I first started it in December 2008. It's entitled, "What Intercooler?" and is in the Auxiliary Injection section. Plenty of numbers for you.

B

 

I have skimmed through that thread before, but thanks. I'm all for making something work & trying things out, so if it works for you then that's all that matters.

 

I'm doin' my best. Hoping to correct the issue (or issues) that made it break. Already changed one thing today and hope to do the other once I get the car goin'.

B

 

Engine is going in tomorrow at some point after I clean up the engine bay. It's been sitting for a while so it had a bunch of crap in it.

B

 

Thread has been cleaned up again.

This is a BDC build thread. The hijacking parts of it have been spun off into two "new" separate threads if the posts were civil with substantive info. All the belittling and junk posting has been removed, never to be seen again.

This is a BDC build thread. Good questions on the build as BDC progresses with THIS build are the only posts that should be seen here. If you've got criticism or hijacking to do, start yer own damn thread and don't do it in this one.

Anybody feeling frisky or stupid wanting to complain, keep it to yourself.

Anybody ignoring me and posting "challenging" material just to "see what happens" will get a three day vacation from RX-7 Club. This is not a democracy....and no, Brian didn't complain, one of the deleted posts came in as a "reported post," bringing this thread to our attention, yet again.

Carry on.

Mario III, SuperModerator

 

http://www.stickam.com/bdcmotorsports

 

It's back up. Had to reboot.

 

Done for the night. Almost done. Will probably get it started Monday evening or Tuesday afternoon.

B

 

^^ call me! I want to see this!