AVC, Split Air, Air Pump, and BAC removed...questions
06-28-04, 09:56 AM
#1
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AVC, Split Air, Air Pump, and BAC removed...questions
I have all of the emmissions units listed in the title removed and blocked off with K2RD blockoff plates on my 87 TII. The car idles smooth as ever now, and with the idle set to ~950 RPM, the A/C hardly dips the idle (and I barely ever use A/C anyways so that will be removed soon). My question is this...
When starting the car before removing these parts, I got the stardard rev-to-3000-RPM startup for about 15 seconds after I start the car. Now, it doesn't do this anymore, and for about 20 seconds after starting, it feels like the engine just doesn't want to rev up at all...almost like its running on one rotor or something. 20 seconds later, it runs just beautifully. Now I'm 99% sure thats not what is actually happening (running on one rotor for 20 seconds), but it just kinda feels like that. And of course, the car isn't revved until its warm anyways, but in testing it, I noticed this and was wondering the cause. Any thoughts?
-Joe
When starting the car before removing these parts, I got the stardard rev-to-3000-RPM startup for about 15 seconds after I start the car. Now, it doesn't do this anymore, and for about 20 seconds after starting, it feels like the engine just doesn't want to rev up at all...almost like its running on one rotor or something. 20 seconds later, it runs just beautifully. Now I'm 99% sure thats not what is actually happening (running on one rotor for 20 seconds), but it just kinda feels like that. And of course, the car isn't revved until its warm anyways, but in testing it, I noticed this and was wondering the cause. Any thoughts?
-Joe
06-28-04, 10:01 AM
#2
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With no BAC or AWS or Thermowax & fast idle cam, it's up to you to hold enough throttle on cold start to warm it up.
No biggie.
I prefer to keep the BAC & loose the others.
No biggie.
I prefer to keep the BAC & loose the others.
06-28-04, 11:35 AM
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Drawbacks of removing all that ****.
You now have to wait for your rotary to warm up in the mornin. Ok during summer = shitty during winter. I'm going to hate the winter season, first time with removed emissions and TB mod, not looking forward to it!
You now have to wait for your rotary to warm up in the mornin. Ok during summer = shitty during winter. I'm going to hate the winter season, first time with removed emissions and TB mod, not looking forward to it!
06-28-04, 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Kenteth
I'm going to hate the winter season, first time with removed emissions and TB mod, not looking forward to it!
I'm going to hate the winter season, first time with removed emissions and TB mod, not looking forward to it!
Same here
But yes, as of right now I have to do as described. Once I start my car I hold the throttle at like 1.5-2k for around 20-30 seconds and then drive off. It's usually all good by then.
06-28-04, 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by dDuB
Same here
But yes, as of right now I have to do as described. Once I start my car I hold the throttle at like 1.5-2k for around 20-30 seconds and then drive off. It's usually all good by then.
Same here
But yes, as of right now I have to do as described. Once I start my car I hold the throttle at like 1.5-2k for around 20-30 seconds and then drive off. It's usually all good by then.
totally normal ... same thing happend to me when i removed all that ..... price you pay ... but its worth it
06-28-04, 01:03 PM
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Good to hear its normal. The BAC would have stayed on, but it had a bad leak even after cleaning and lubricating, so I ditched it instead of paying for a new one. Thanks for the info guys.
-Joe
-Joe
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06-28-04, 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Syonyk
... how exactly is "not running when cold" worth it? Not a flame, just curious as to what is gained (other than a bit of simplicity).
-=Russ=-
... how exactly is "not running when cold" worth it? Not a flame, just curious as to what is gained (other than a bit of simplicity).
-=Russ=-
1. less vac lines to worry about leaking
2. the BAC was bad anyways
3. Air pump had to be removed to install the TID, therefore making the ACV useless
4. No cats anyways, again no use for ACV or SAP
5. More room in the engine compartment
If you have no power steering, AC, or any of that stuff, I say take off the BAC. If you have no cats, take off the ACV, SAP, and air pump...just don't try to pass emissions.
-Joe
06-28-04, 02:34 PM
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I have to disagree with you on the removal of the BAC. I just did a turbo swap in my 88 gxl and i removed all the emmissions stuff as well as the bac. I can start my car in the morning and let it idle(it starts lower than what its set for but climbs slowly) for ever if i care to but as soon as i turn the lights on and step on the brakes it will die. I have powersteering and a descent size stereo and they both can kill it too. The battery and alternator are both good. The car runs awesome otherwise. I'm running a Mictrotech, that may be why when i start it up it idles just fine. I'm in the process of finding out how to get the ecu reprogrammed to run the BAC. Its a pretty big pain in the *** to hold the gas at lights then try to start with a light flywheel and a 6 puck clutch. Sounds like i'm trying to race all the time. Just my .02
06-28-04, 05:26 PM
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i say the bac can go if you have pulled the power steering and the a/c (or rarely use it) otherwise itll be too inconvenient when the car stalls from the load at idle.
06-28-04, 05:28 PM
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Out of curiosity, what will keeping the BAC installed, and doing a complete TB mod do? Will this give me back my cold idle even though I don't have the thermalwax installed?
06-28-04, 07:40 PM
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hey overdriven
what all did you run into as far as adjustments go ..
what all did you have to tune and whatnot to get a good idle after having removed all this stuff ...
basically what all did you have to touch to get it to idle low, and whats the lowest yours will idle , will under load (ac\pws) etc...
what all did you run into as far as adjustments go ..
what all did you have to tune and whatnot to get a good idle after having removed all this stuff ...
basically what all did you have to touch to get it to idle low, and whats the lowest yours will idle , will under load (ac\pws) etc...
06-28-04, 07:48 PM
#13
OK the BAC has nothing to do with emissions.
It is used to bump up idle under load so the car doesn't stall. PS/AC/etc....
There isnt really a need to remove it unless you ditched the AC and PS.
I have removed the whole rats nest and ACV and thermowax.
The plus to this is......
Cleaner engine bay,less vac hoses,no coolant lines running through TB and UIM,more velocity through the tb.
When you remove the secondary plates you remove the cars ability to gradually increase flow so at warm up you may need to hold the gas for a bit.
It is used to bump up idle under load so the car doesn't stall. PS/AC/etc....
There isnt really a need to remove it unless you ditched the AC and PS.
I have removed the whole rats nest and ACV and thermowax.
The plus to this is......
Cleaner engine bay,less vac hoses,no coolant lines running through TB and UIM,more velocity through the tb.
When you remove the secondary plates you remove the cars ability to gradually increase flow so at warm up you may need to hold the gas for a bit.
07-01-04, 08:03 AM
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Fitness Stain...
When I started it up after blocking them all off, it ran almost perfectly right away with no adjustments. However, after driving a little while the RPM would drop down and it would idle out and die. Sometimes I needed to hold the gas pedal slightly down to start it. I knew this meant that the idle adjust screw on the back of the TB needed adjusting. So I took a look at that, and the screw wasn't even in far enough to touch the linkage. I screwed it in till it just barely pushed the linkage, and then readjusted the TPS. Started, and I have a great idle at 950. This is a good idle speed to compensate for the A/C should I ever use it (it drops to about 850 with the A/C on). I have no PS either, so I don't have to worry about that.
BTW...that idle adjust screw on the TB is a BITCH to get to on the TII! Its impossible to adjust while its running. I had to take the intercooler off, adjust the screw, reinstall the IC, and start the car hoping that I got it right. Luckily I got it the first try.
-Joe
When I started it up after blocking them all off, it ran almost perfectly right away with no adjustments. However, after driving a little while the RPM would drop down and it would idle out and die. Sometimes I needed to hold the gas pedal slightly down to start it. I knew this meant that the idle adjust screw on the back of the TB needed adjusting. So I took a look at that, and the screw wasn't even in far enough to touch the linkage. I screwed it in till it just barely pushed the linkage, and then readjusted the TPS. Started, and I have a great idle at 950. This is a good idle speed to compensate for the A/C should I ever use it (it drops to about 850 with the A/C on). I have no PS either, so I don't have to worry about that.
BTW...that idle adjust screw on the TB is a BITCH to get to on the TII! Its impossible to adjust while its running. I had to take the intercooler off, adjust the screw, reinstall the IC, and start the car hoping that I got it right. Luckily I got it the first try.
-Joe
07-01-04, 01:21 PM
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its not that hard for me to adjust the idle screw with the intercooler on .. i have a skinny screw driver that i could fit down in there, and turn it ... i just left the nut off until i found a good spot ... then i have to take off the intercooler, to tighten it down ...
well poo ... i wish mine started up just fine after removing all that crap
well poo ... i wish mine started up just fine after removing all that crap
07-01-04, 01:25 PM
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When you're all saying that you have to hold the gas to keep the car from stalling, do you notice that if you push the gas too much the car will stall? Mine will do this, i have to find just the right spot... and i have to let the car warm up for about a minute with my foot on the gas or else it will stall.... this isnt normal im guessing
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