AFM Elimination for fc, MAYBE!!!
12-04-08, 01:22 PM
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We have one installed on a 88 Vert turbo swap. The car has an HKS T04E kit and the stock AFM was a bottleneck.
You still need an FCD of some type when you install the MAP ecu.
You still need an FCD of some type when you install the MAP ecu.
12-04-08, 01:30 PM
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Yep, it's certainly an option. The MAP-ECU has been around for a while and it seems recently the price has fallen a little. It used to be near $1000 which was obviously way too much to pay.
Keep in mind that it can only tune within the parameters of the stock ECU, so you're looking at capabilities similar to an S-AFC with the bonus of removing the AFM. The AFM really only is a restriction when you are into the territory of a standalone anyway.
However for a NA application, I'd really consider going with the MAP-ECU instead of an S-AFC because it allows removal of the AFM, even though it's only a minimal improvement.
Keep in mind that it can only tune within the parameters of the stock ECU, so you're looking at capabilities similar to an S-AFC with the bonus of removing the AFM. The AFM really only is a restriction when you are into the territory of a standalone anyway.
However for a NA application, I'd really consider going with the MAP-ECU instead of an S-AFC because it allows removal of the AFM, even though it's only a minimal improvement.
12-24-08, 09:42 AM
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http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templa...936&SearchYN=N
putting s/c in my n/a this looks like a pretty good ecu that will help me eliminate restrictive afm and air box as well as letting the BOV vent to atmosphere w/out messing up afm readings, I was thinking of going with a setup that had knock sensor input, but this looks pretty decent, what you guys think.. good find to the OP another good thing it has is aux injection control, that will be good maybe I can mod that to kick in my water / air intercooler with some sort of relay that will provide power to the pump and fan when intake temps start to rise...
I will probably end up with a stand alone, but something like this maybe a good alt due to the replacing of the afm..
Powerhouse Racing MAP ECU 2
Part # PHR MAP ECU 2
The MAP-ECU2 replaces voltage and frequency based air flow meters with Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) based load sensing (Speed Density). Voltage types include the spring door flap and hot wire types used by numerous manufactures. Frequency based units are commonly known as Karman Vortex Frequency air flow meter as used by Mitsubishi™ or DSM vehicles and some other manufacturers.
This MAP-ECU2 combines the functionality of other manufacturers Air Flow Converters and Vane to Pressure Converters into the one unit, plus more. It is supplied with a blank table for professional engine tuners who have the experience to customise the configuration. Many base tables are available for popular vehicles. The MAP-ECU2 tables are programmed using a 2D Table Mode or the 3D Graph Mode. Both views allow real-time editing of the MAP-ECU2 Fuel, Timing, Auxiliary Injector and O2 Adjust configuration.
The MAP-ECU2 combines the functionality of the MAP-ECU with full Timing control, OEM Air/Fuel Ratio Adjust, Auxiliary Injector control and Electronic Boost Control (requires the purchase of the Powerhouse Racing MAP ECU2 Boost Solenoid Kit on this page).
It also has many on-board functions that usually require the purchase of secondary piggyback controllers such as:
Launch Control (2-step Rev Limiter)
Fuel Cut Defender (a.k.a. Boost Cut Controller)
Speed Cut Defender
Speed Adjust
Nitrous Control
RPM Switch
Pressure Switch
The MAP-ECU2 has a built in serial port which is connected to an Industry Standard PC running Microsoft(™) Windows2000(™) or WindowsXP(™).
Configuration and monitoring is accomplished using MAP ECU's proprietary graphical user interface. The graphical user interface allows real-time configuration and monitoring of the MAP-ECU, even while running the vehicle on a Dyno, etc.
MSRP $849.00
Your Price $725.00
Part # PHR MAP ECU 2
The MAP-ECU2 replaces voltage and frequency based air flow meters with Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) based load sensing (Speed Density). Voltage types include the spring door flap and hot wire types used by numerous manufactures. Frequency based units are commonly known as Karman Vortex Frequency air flow meter as used by Mitsubishi™ or DSM vehicles and some other manufacturers.
This MAP-ECU2 combines the functionality of other manufacturers Air Flow Converters and Vane to Pressure Converters into the one unit, plus more. It is supplied with a blank table for professional engine tuners who have the experience to customise the configuration. Many base tables are available for popular vehicles. The MAP-ECU2 tables are programmed using a 2D Table Mode or the 3D Graph Mode. Both views allow real-time editing of the MAP-ECU2 Fuel, Timing, Auxiliary Injector and O2 Adjust configuration.
The MAP-ECU2 combines the functionality of the MAP-ECU with full Timing control, OEM Air/Fuel Ratio Adjust, Auxiliary Injector control and Electronic Boost Control (requires the purchase of the Powerhouse Racing MAP ECU2 Boost Solenoid Kit on this page).
It also has many on-board functions that usually require the purchase of secondary piggyback controllers such as:
Launch Control (2-step Rev Limiter)
Fuel Cut Defender (a.k.a. Boost Cut Controller)
Speed Cut Defender
Speed Adjust
Nitrous Control
RPM Switch
Pressure Switch
The MAP-ECU2 has a built in serial port which is connected to an Industry Standard PC running Microsoft(™) Windows2000(™) or WindowsXP(™).
Configuration and monitoring is accomplished using MAP ECU's proprietary graphical user interface. The graphical user interface allows real-time configuration and monitoring of the MAP-ECU, even while running the vehicle on a Dyno, etc.
MSRP $849.00
Your Price $725.00
putting s/c in my n/a this looks like a pretty good ecu that will help me eliminate restrictive afm and air box as well as letting the BOV vent to atmosphere w/out messing up afm readings, I was thinking of going with a setup that had knock sensor input, but this looks pretty decent, what you guys think.. good find to the OP another good thing it has is aux injection control, that will be good maybe I can mod that to kick in my water / air intercooler with some sort of relay that will provide power to the pump and fan when intake temps start to rise...
I will probably end up with a stand alone, but something like this maybe a good alt due to the replacing of the afm..
Last edited by mike_merryguy; 12-24-08 at 09:45 AM.
12-24-08, 10:27 AM
#7
I've used one on a VR-4. I know they've updated it recently (MAP ECU 2) but the oldschool one I used (same one in that link) was pretty bad in terms of the actual tuning process. The log viewer was crude, the map trace feature sucked... it just screamed "1990's." You're looking at an old, cheaper version of the E-manage ultimate (cheaper if you buy it used at least) without timing control.
There is basically no reason to run this when you can get used standalones that are way better (and there are plug and play Haltech and Power FC options) or an Rtek which will have waaaaay better driveability out of the box. There are dyno sheets in the mid 300's on the Rtek 2.1 with the stock AFM, and it will actually let you log the factory engine sensors and control the cranking map to prevent floods and such.
Don't waste your money. People make too big of a deal about the stock AFM on moderate setups, and I don't think you understand just how tedious it's going to be to use this. You will need to build a map of AFM voltage (although they convert voltage to their own load units) on an RPM vs Boost table.
There is basically no reason to run this when you can get used standalones that are way better (and there are plug and play Haltech and Power FC options) or an Rtek which will have waaaaay better driveability out of the box. There are dyno sheets in the mid 300's on the Rtek 2.1 with the stock AFM, and it will actually let you log the factory engine sensors and control the cranking map to prevent floods and such.
Don't waste your money. People make too big of a deal about the stock AFM on moderate setups, and I don't think you understand just how tedious it's going to be to use this. You will need to build a map of AFM voltage (although they convert voltage to their own load units) on an RPM vs Boost table.
Last edited by arghx; 12-24-08 at 10:30 AM.
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12-24-08, 10:45 AM
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hmm interesting, that is good to know, I will check more into the other systems you have mentioned, I have been reading on different ECU's and intake setups for like 2 weeks this one seemed decent b/c you can eliminate the afm, and with the BOV being installed after the afm I really would like to go with a MAP so that I can accuratly monitor the amount of air that is taken in, I was reading that a bov that is vented to atmosphere will make the car run rich when you are slowing or at idle b/c the afm will read that all this air is being sucked in, however its not going into the engine.. not good for a car that is already not that great on gas LOL
I know that I have tons more research to do before I make a purchase for engine management, I am going to upgrade fuel pump and secondary injectors get a stage 2 clutch water/air ic and some other odds and ends, I don't want to shortcut this at all, last thing I want to do is end up with blown engine that would suck to have to rebuild after spending probably 5k on upgrades..
I know that I have tons more research to do before I make a purchase for engine management, I am going to upgrade fuel pump and secondary injectors get a stage 2 clutch water/air ic and some other odds and ends, I don't want to shortcut this at all, last thing I want to do is end up with blown engine that would suck to have to rebuild after spending probably 5k on upgrades..
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