TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

Wow, I really like that alternator. Looks like there would be a lot less work? You wouldn't need any brackets and such. Bastard, do you remember having any difficulties getting it installed and working properly? 170 amps just sounds .... juicy.

P.S. has anybody wondered why a ford tempo needs 170 amps????

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

will that work on a 13b?

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

naw, super easy install, just ask for the connector when you order it and they will give you the wiring directions... you just have to mess with the spacers/shims to line the pulley up... when you order it you can get either a dual sheave pulley or a multi groove pulley

the wiring is a 3 wire connector plus the battery terminal wire... one wire loops back to the battery terminal and the other two go to ignition on and amp/volt meter



edit..... I am such a tard, sorry for the mis information that i just edited out, but it is all coming back to me now. It has been a few years since i did the conversion...


I originally put the Tempo alternator on my 13bt (TII engine) I had to cut down the back side of the waterpump housing to move the alternator forward in order to line the dual sheave pulley's up...I cut about the thickness of the OEM alternator spacer off (about 1/2")

DBookatay

iTrader: (1)

I'm in the process of cleaning up my engine bay and fire wall, and love seeing other peoples engine bays, but I'm dying to know... Did you shave your windshield wipers?

Where the hell is the wiper motor?

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

170amps is crazy amps, guess if you have alot of stereo equipment you would need that. For those not paying attention and maybe once you had seen a V8 car tuned it out- I went from a Mazda to a GM, so it does not matter what engine it was as the alternator and its wiring is whats important here.
With the wiring harness adaptor that GM sells there is no question as to the wiring as you just splice it into your mazda harness. No worry if you wired it right and if your battery will be draining or if you will burn out your alternator.

TitaniumTT

I did not miss that part, I ignored it. I do not have an ammeter that can handle the amount of amps that my car required, therefore I went by voltage. Would an ammeter be better? Yes, am I going to spend the money? No

If your car needs only 60 amps, than this in my opinion is a wasted mod. 130A is better than 100 sure, but to me, it's not worth all the extra effort and aggrevation to go from 60% down to 45% "duty cycle."


I didn't claim you were. The fact still remains though that I wasn't getting full voltage at cruising speeds. I needed more amps. I still have yet to decide on what to do. That tempo 170A unit looked nice until I heard about hogging out material. I may pull one from a boneyard and see if it will fit on my S6 waterpump housing first before I completely shrug it off.

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

it wasn't really about the stereo (i don't have a bad *** system but i do have a couple small amps)... the biggest problem is getting the Taurus fan started. It takes some 80 amps just to fire it up on high... it's a serious hairdryer

the alternator was chosen because it was a super easy mod, practically bolt on

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

did you do back to back testing with the taurus fan and another quality fan?
why do so many people get this junkyard fan then try to get the rest of the car to run it safely?

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

the Taurus fan is 2800CFM, you would be hard pressed to find an aftermarket fan that puts out 2800CFM for the price... including the alternator

TitaniumTT

There is no wiper motor. The car is not a DD so there was no need for it. I welded the little nostrals on the hood shut too before I repainted it. By the way, it's the same color as the Elise. I actually had the VERY VERY first gallon of Lotus Storm Titanium Metalic ever mixed in North America.

One important thing to point out here and I'm surprised we got this far without mentioning it. Sometimes a poor charging system is the result of a ****-poor 20+ year old wire off the alt. I would replace that anyway if I was upgrading the alt.

FWIW that Motorcity Reman that Bastard showed us has an S6 reman Ho alt thats rated for 180 Amps @ $380 I would rock that.

http://www.motorcityreman.com/9396rx713l.html

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

wow... nice find, they didn't have that 3 years ago when i did my conversion

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

So that install would be even easier, but you are paying WAY more for that little bit easier install and 10 more amps? Not sure I can justify that.

TitaniumTT

Thanks. Figures they wouldn't have it when you needed it. 3 years ago when i was gettin gmy car on the road I couldn't find one exept from that MechMan guy for $5-600. I wasn't going to pay that. Instead I paid with weak batteries, poor starting, dim lights, and AMPS that would go into fault when the bass hit hard enogh. I also sent a quote request to these guys
http://www.highoutputalternator.com/
& I plan on getting in touch with a few local shops to see other options. I'm also going to call MotorCity Reman and see if I can ship them some coated casings to use in thier assembly if I do go through them.

TitaniumTT

I can - 10 more amps, perfect fitment, no ******* around with shims or adjustments, WARRANTY............. WARRANTY. I've gone through way to many ******* alts and had way to many problems. I'm too old to bitch over $380 to put an end to some pain. Did I mention A ******* LIFETIME WARRANTY

http://www.motorcityreman.com/warranty-info.html

I'm basically sold

TweakGames

iTrader: (3)

but there is the same warranty on this one also for less than 1/2 the cost ... proven to work. http://www.motorcityreman.com/9294tempo23l.html

I guess my time is worth LESS than 228$ an hour so I would rather spend an hour working on it than pay the extra. Everyone is different I guess.

TitaniumTT

At my last job I billed $270/hr It could also cause problems down the road if the alignment is off, it could chew belts etc etc etc. To each thier own though. I think Bastard might have gone for it had it been offered based on how excited he was at the find and how bummed that they didn't offer it when he was looking. I don't like modding things to make **** fit. i would rather it all go together seemlessly. That's one of the reasons I build so many parts is that the aftmkt **** just doesn't fit right. I'm also at my wits end with this particular problem as it has been going on & off for some 7-8 years. I got so feed up with having to jump my car that I installed battery quick disconnects, mounted them in the storage bin and had my own cables that would PLUG into the car. I used to come home and plug my car into a trickle charger. If a phone =call and $380 solves that, I'm in. I'm also old and grumpy.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Kudos to Jackhild and others who have worked out bigger alts. I just put an FD alt on my 89 vert with a JDM swap. I just added a small subwoofer and a 3rd amp to my system. I've got a Taurus Efan sitting in storage waiting for me to figure out if the positives of the fan outway the negatives. This thread gave me more options, thanks.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Aha! Old and Grumpy I can relate to! I also relate to the value of my time. The my vert is really the only place that I can use my time that someone else isn't demanding value. Therefore I 'waste' my time by spending it solving problems that others have not/cannot solve. For me this is fun.

You really have gone down a tough road with this problem. You have even tried the 'upgrade' to FD and it all has been a bunch trouble. A larger charging wire is a very good idea. I pulled the charging wire from the Taurus, but I didn't use it. I will go back and add it when I remove the alternator to clean it up.

I have also decided to add an external alternator fan to the Taurus alt. I have done lots of reading on the subject. My take on all this is that automotive alternators, particularly from late model compact alternators, are not capable of producing the rated capacity for very long or they burn up. We are talking about minutes, not hours. Even what would seem to be mild duty cycles in my mind are pretty harsh on automotive alternators if long in duration.

For example on the Bosch site, they caution you to not attempt to charge a flat battery with the alternator after a jump start as it may lead to reduced alternator life! They tell you that the alternator was not designed for this output! http://www.boschautoparts.com/Resour...rsStarters.htm

Bosch also makes a line of high output alternators specifically for audio competitors. The alts are basically rewinds with heat resistant insulation (nomex) and soldered not crimped connectors inside and larger cooling fans and vents. Oh, and by the way, they specifically mention a smaller pulley to keep the amps up at low rpm.

If my E-fan was not on the car, my alternator would only put out about 35 amps with EVERYTHING in the car maxed. 35/80=43% duty cycle. My with the fan and the new 130 amp I get 60/130=46% duty cycle. I am think/hope that this is in a safe range, but I don't really know, hence my intent to add an external fan.

Alternators that can run at rated capacity are made for Marine, Urban Buses, Heavy OTR Trucks and they are HUGE framed alts that dissipate heat well.

I think that TTT is rightly concerned about heat.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

They don't: That was a rewound alternator. Below is the stock alternator. 95 amps.


Product Part No. Price

Duralast / Alternator
Warranty - LLT DL7760-5-11
Price:
$149.99
Core:
$35.00
Total:
$184.99
Note:
95 Amp
Premium reman

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Rob- on a forum where members commonly make 300-400 hp from 1.3l engines? You are questioning EXCESS ? heh heh

'Junkyard fan' makes it sound like junk. It is not. Nor does it draw 'ungodly' or any other derisive amounts of current. In electric draw on efans, you get what you 'pay' for. The 25 amp draw is paid back in airflow. Fans that do not draw this much amperage do move this much air.

To think that Ford fucked up the design on the Taurus fan, so they decided to put on an oversize alternator, then applied this mistake to 6.7 million Taurus produced to date is just not possible.

Yes, I know Ford is broke, but not because of spending too much money on charging systems.

The problem with the Taurus fan is our weak charging/electical system. Solve that and the fan is golden.

I think am nearly there.

ITSWILL

iTrader: (12)

So if money is not an issue, would I be better off going with the suped up fd alternator on my 13bt? I know it is fairly common to do the fd alt swap i fcs but I just want to make sure that there isn't something I'm missing.

TitaniumTT

haha - our age group is definately dwindeling when it comes to these cars. This is my hobby as well but I've spent enough time time one this particular problem and have gotten to the point where I'm willing to throw some bread at it to let someone else kill it.

If you live anywhere near a West Marine, Boat US or any other chandlery store I would SERIOUSLY reccomend grabbing some Ancor Marine Cable. I grew up in the marine industry and working with marine cable compare to auto cable is a difference that cannot be explained - it must be experienced. Ancor tins each strand so the resistance is higher and therefore you generally need to up the gauge size a litte but the flexibility of the cable is tremendous. I'm in the process of helping a good friend re-wire his '94 LR Defender 90 and I can make bends with 1/0 cable that would stress a 2 ga auto cable.

This is interesting, I'll have to question MotorCityReman when I call.

This I knew about but honestly, sometimes we don't have that option.

After reading that I think the electrical loads on our cars are really different. I really should invest in an ammeter or try to borrow someones just to figure out what my loads are. In the past though there was an e-fan, two amps, an ignition pack, fogs and upgraded headlights. The ignition pack is gone and has been replaced with 4 LS1 coils which are thirsty in thier own right so I may be back up to 100Amps or so with everything on full bore. Like I said, I should get the tool but in the past I have just relied on voltage. We shall see. It's nice to see someone taking the time to do the research and sharing knowledge though.

TitaniumTT

Just for haha's I checked out what they offer for my Jeep as a stereo and some lights are in the future. 90 Amp stock unit - bleh - 160 amp replacement = yay! However, they say right under the alt to upgrade the main battery wire and they even supply a chart.

http://www.motorcityreman.com/technical-info.html

It looks like I'll be upgrading my charge wire in the 7 again as mine passes through the firewall and goes right to the main solenoid. I used 2 ga and I think they're calling for 2/0 which in my eyes is way too damn much.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

I think they are using the same chart for 1-wire alts and three wire alts.

Consider this: When you use a 'one wire' alternator, you must have overkill on the charging wire. This is because the alt senses the voltage at the alt charging terminal, rather than at the use box. Any voltage drop reduces your charging.

When using a three wire alt, all you need is wire rated to carry the amps produced. According to the Handbook of Electronic Tables and Formulas for American Wire Gauge for chassis wiring, for 160 amps you need 2 ga. 00 will carry 383 amps.

With 2 guage, 160 amps and a 20' run, you will have 0.514v voltage drop.
With 00 guage, 160 amps and a 20' run, you will have 0.256v voltage drop.

This is why alternators use remote sensing wire technology(and why 1-wire alts suck). Merely boost the alt output up by .5 or .25 volts via the feedback from the remote sensing wire. Now the volts at the fuse box will be right back to 14.1v. You can never get 14.1v at the main fuse panel with a 1-wire alt.

On that page you linked they strongly warn about low output at idle. They even tell you that they will put a smaller pulley on to solve the problem. They recommend a 3:1 ratio of crank pulley diameter to alt pulley diameter. My crank is 4.5 and my alt pulley is 2.5, 4.5:2.5=1.8:1 ratio! Therefore, at 8000 rpm, my alt is turning at 14400 rpm. At idle, 800 rpm my alt is turning 1440 rpm. These guys say their amperage drops off 'substantially' below 2400 rpm. The ratio they recommend will turn the alternator 2400rpm at idle, but at 8000 redline it will turn it at 24000 rpm.

You have been warned several times!!!

Seriously my friend, good luck and let me know how the HO alternator works out.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

I cant argue the price, but what I will always argue is the logic behind using a old used fan as your source of cooling for your car.
With all the money people have in thier car is a $10 pick and pull fan worth it over a brand new fan that even comes with detailed installation/wiring diagrams?

I just switched over to a 3600+ CFM and feel its worth every penny, especially with its lifetime gurantee.

Lets not also forget the amount of parasitic drag that a larger alternator puts on the car. Im honestly STILL thinking of putting the stock fan back on, but I like the engine bay without it.