I am not going to challenge it, DD's rat's nest is definitely the nicest rat's nest on earth, mine is only second best.

Well lots of progress today, one of those days where you take two steps forward and only one step back.

First thing that happened was that after reading about proportioning valves and blowing in the holes of the three or four valves I have in the shed and not noticing much difference, I found out that the front brakes were bleeding just fine this morning, unlike last night, when they wouldn't even pump air. I have no idea why, but I love problems that fix themselves. Now, with the expert guidance of Master Hydraulics Engineer Cathy at the wheel commanding the pedals the brakes are perfectly bled and work great.

Then, around noon, OGTA members Michael and Nichole stopped by bearing gifts, among them a locally infamous 12A that now resides in my driveway (the OGTA gossips lines will be burning about this one):



Anyway, after Michael showed us his patented technique for using a maple tree and a come-along to extract a 12A from the trunk of an acura, we went about the business of the day, which was to rebuild his Nikki, which had been giving him fits lately (for good reason, since it probably hadn't been rebuilt in 25 years). It came out good.



Then we turned our attention to the Silver One's remaining issues, which were the stuck clutch and a very annoying habit of firing on only one rotor after idling for about 20 minutes (more on this later)

So we were doing a little crow barring on the throw out arm when Michael came up with a brilliant insight: The slave cylinder is jammed!

Sure enough, extraction of the cylinder showed that it had become a solid object, which is why the clutch was stuck. Fortunately, I just happened to have a new slave cylinder in my parts shed that I picked up for $10 on ebay about 5 years ago, so we swapped that in without too much trouble, again thanks to Michael's familiarity with slave cylinders and his pocket full of slave cylinder tricks. The Clutch Problem, which had me planning a tranny drop earlier in the day, was solved.

So the car is ready to return to wheels and tires except for one major detail, the aforementioned bad habit of losing a rotor after about 20 minutes.

We did about 138 tests to try to figure out why this happens, but have come up with nothing yet (lots of ideas though, that I start to check out tomorrow).



So add Cathy, Brake Master and Burger Meister and Michael and Nichole, bearers of 12As and answers to FB questions, to the list of contributors to the Silver One Project.



If anybody knows why the rear rotor on the Silver One's 12A likes to take a vacation every 20 minutes, please let us know!

mj, sorry about your misfortune, looks like you are going to need some parts to repair that. We are looking into organizing a regional FB rear end swap, will keep you posted.

 

stuck seal ray? that 12a on the pallet blow much oil lol drenched.

 

Ray, have you tried swapping the distributor?

 

Ben the 12A is a donation for a future community 12A rebuild, although the engine is actually still running pretty well. I think the oil is from storage and being turned over from time to time.

Dave, yes we did swap in a different dizzy (the one from the White One) with no difference.

Basically the symptoms are that after a good long rest, the car starts up, warms up and idles fine, like you see in some of the videos above. It actually sounds very smooth and strong for awhile (but just in the driveway, no test drive yet). Then after about 10-15 minutes of idling the rear rotor kicks out and it stops running unless you pump it with a lot of gas.

Inspection of the plugs shows the front plugs are dry and the rear ones have gas/oil on them, indicating that rotor isn't firing.

Given the history of the car, ie it's been sitting for more than 2 years, I'm worried that there is damage to that rotor that only shows up after it has warmed up extensively. But that's the worst case scenario.

Michael is more optimistic and wants to blame it on the carb for delivering a bit too much gas to the rear rotor, which after idling for 10-15 minutes builds up and floods that rotor. Inspection of the primaries while idling shows gas being delivered to both primaries but it is not obviously biased toward the rear rotor however. Also, we cleaned up the plugs after this happened one time and it still was missing on that rear rotor, which seems inconsistent with the carb idea.

Also we have looked at every aspect of ignition we could think of, switching dizzy caps and rotors, switching to another set of plug wires and switching dizzy's altogether, but nothing corrected the problem.

The only thing that seems to work is a good long rest and a cold or slightly warm restart. Then it idles and revs fine for awhile before kicking out again.

I'm going to put the wheels back on today, charge the battery and recheck everything. Unfortunately I don't have a compression tester, that is an obvious thing to check both before and after the symptoms set in, so I'll give Crit a call today and see if I can arrange to borrow one of his.

But the Silver One is looking nice at least, has brakes and a clutch and before the day is out will be back on her wheels, some progress at least...

 

Ray, have you seafoamed the silver one yet? i say, let it have it. if you can, take it out for a drive and see how it reacts to being driven after 20 mins.odd that the rear rotor would just stop making compression after 20 mins. it can't be a fuel issue with the carb because it was fine on your white car.

 

yep, i'd go drive it.

 

Dave, you know I used the Sea Foam liberally, it didn't seem to make a difference but we've got fewer mosquitos in the neighborhood.

I took those dudes advice about putting the tires on and this is what happened









They might be on to something.

 

do you still have the shutter valve hooked up? we had one come in and it would intermittantly run on rotor, i'll skip the fun part, and just say it was a bad TPS (yes it has one), tps had a bad spot in it, when the ecu saw rpm was over 1000 (or whatever) and zero throttle, it would turn on the shutter valve (which was actually good)

second thought, is that your timing is off, its retarded, maybe it just sounds weird and idles low because of that?

 

from the second video, it seems to be running pretty well. the first video seems to show the low idle. dis teh idle get any better after the short jaunt down your driveway? wanted to add that i love the NO TRESSPASSING sign, lol. thats right to the point.

 

Ray looking and sounding good. Did you try a different plug in that rear rotor?
Might be a plug issue once it heats up. Also throw the timing light on the
rear rotor and see if its getting spark when this happens. That will at least
tell you if its a spark issue or something else.

 

Ask, and ye shall receive...



Back to the thread subject, though; That's confusing behavior; engine should reach full heat-soak well before 15 minutes of idling has gone by, you'd think.

Anything weird about float level on the back side after the cutout point? Is float level still normal after the "long sleep," or does one seem to drain down a lot more than the other?

Any chance that it's a plug or plug wire that's the culprit? Like TG said, it's possible that you've got a plug that's failing after it gets good and hot.

 

j9, I disabled the shutter valve in the Silver One because of a previous experience I had with a leaking shutter valve in the White One which totally disabled the rear rotor, making me think the engine was gone. Fortunately we figured that one out before I gave up on it and I got another 30,000 miles out of the White One before she gave up the ghost last week.

The timing for both leading and trailing ignition is spot on, set with the light and checked several times, so I don't think this is a problem. Ditto with the plug wires, they are in great shape but even so I've switched them out for another good set and no relief from the rear rotor problem. But I like Tim's idea of checking the spark to the rear rotor with the light when (and if) the problem comes back. The only trick is keeping the engine running long enough to get a good reading with the light.

I don't think plugs are a problem, they aren't new but are in good shape and I clean them up before reinstalling each time, randomizing their positions. But the problem always is in the rear rotor.

The engine is noisy partly because of the exhaust system, it has an RB header connected by 2.25 inch tubing to a magnaflow cat and a tiny little borla muffler, giving it a pretty loud exhaust note:





Dave, are you referring to the "Goat Lovers Only" parking sign in the driveway? We allow trespassers, even ones carrying bibles (I lure them into a deep philosophical discussion on evolution, just to test their faith).

DD, your rat's nest is truly a thing of beauty



I need to get out and drive it some to figure out just what the problem is with that back rotor, I've done just about everything I can in the driveway. So today I went out and got one of these:



I'll do the install and take it out for a test drive, should be interesting. I'll take pictures and movies of course and report back.

 

Hey Ray, as long as you're thinking about timing, did you ever check to see that your front pulley was in fact clocked correctly. I've had it bite me far too many times than I'd care to admit. You can time to the front pulley perfectly, but you'd still be WAY off (potentially just running on the trailing's wasted spark).

 

very nice indeed, almost makes me THINK about putting mine back on

 

Crit, you got me worried. How the ---- do I check the front pulley clock?

This is worth repeating



So it looks like the Silver One was mostly just waiting for a tag. I took her out and got her a tank full of gas and now she's acting just fine



On the test drive I discovered that the idler arm bushings are **** and the MagnaFlow/Borla exhaust combination is very very loud, so it looks like the next projects are bushings and swapping in the RB stuff from the White One. Damn the White One has been a good car, I just realized when I did the registration for the Silver One today that the White One has been doing the daily commute for 4 years without a fuss. All hail the White One! She will ride again.

I guess that rear rotor problem was corrected by the 12A autocorrection options they installed in the 84/85 GSL's, one of the reasons I like this particular model.

Next comes the pretty stuff.

 

on mine i was able to hook the light up and take it with me to the drivers seat, and shine it in my own eyes as i cranked it, msd sparks a lot at cranking speed

 

Getting the old-style, metal-frame solenoids apart for painting and then back together again without breaking the crimp tabs was an exercize in patience, I'll tell ya.

But they is pretty... and color-coded to the connectors! (I got tired of the little color stickers falling off.)

 

glad to hear that a drive cured the problem. i figured that it would need to be taken out and run for a bit. liven the ol' girl up. that no tresspassing sign is pretty cool though. i have a sign that reads "premesis protected by pitbull with aids" and another that reads "anyone found here at night will also be found here in the morning" none of those wild jehovas witnesses come near the place..

 

I know I'm late on posting in this thread, but very nice work Ray, you made quick work of that car and it looks great! I don't think any of my engine bays have ever been that clean lol. Good luck with it!

 

Thanks 82transam!

Don't joke Dave, down here in Georgia we got dogs that actually do that kind of stuff. Check out the article on CNN, that neighborhood is about 20 miles from my house.

I'm trusting that rear rotor enough to make plans, so I ordered the Mood idler arm today and will be putting both cars back up on stilts to remove the RB exhaust from the White One and transplant it to the Silver One. I hate removing that magnaflow cat, it actually helps clean up the exhaust quite a bit, but it's just too loud.

Also lots of details like getting the panels back in, grill work, cleaning out the windshield washers tubes and jets (they work great now!) and the stereo system hooked back up. And a passenger seat and some interior stuff out back. Then a good bath.

She should be looking, driving and sounding pretty good by this weekend.

 

Ray, while i was working today i saw a sign in someone's front yard and thought of you and your sign. i swung back around and snapped a pic with my cell phone. figured you'd get a kick out of it:

 

i heard about those dogs ray, i work with a couple guys from that area. Thanks to 85_rx7_12a i now have a new diff, but I am having trouble getting the axles out of my old rear end and the "new" one. Anybody have any tips or tricks to getting the axles out of the housing? thanks
mj

 

LOL @ that sign Dave haha.
Ray I can't remember which RB system you have, is it the dual "streetport" one? If not and its the single one I would suggest just using the RB muffler and leave that cat on there, thats what my setup is (catco brand cat on mine though) and it has a nice deep tone, not too loud at all. We have emissions to worry about in NJ so the cat is a must, but honestly I'd probably keep it on there even if we didn't have to, that smell gets old after a while lol

 

to get the axles out you will need a puller. i use a large slide hammer with a three point end. comes out in two pulls. you do need to make sure everything on the brakes are completely disassembled and the four nuts are removed from the backing plate.

 

thats what i figured i will see what i can scrounge up at work.