BridgePorted12A

iTrader: (6)

Ok,I searched and this was the reults: 1. don't use ploy bushings b/c they're too stiff and will upset handling/make the ride very bumpy. 2. The other side says you can use poly bushings, as long as you don't put them in the upper rear of the control arms. And thirdly, to go OEM all the way and don't use ANY poly bushings.

Well I want to clear this up. What are your reasons for choosing one of the three options and why? I just purchased a complete Poly master kit from Energy Suspension, so these questions were floating around in my head. I want to make the right decision, getting the optimal performance out of my suspension. If you guys could help me out and I am sure there're plenty of other people thinking the same thing as me.

Thanks

Ryan

©ØÐËߣüË

iTrader: (1)

search more !!!!!

neektar

iTrader: (2)

From what I seen, you can use poly bushings in the front. The rear aswell but not certain areas like the sway bar I believe.

I'm thinking of getting a set aswell to clear up some of the steering wheel play I have and just for an overall better ride.

BridgePorted12A

iTrader: (6)

(©ØÐËߣüË)-->wow, thanks for that valuable piece of information that you can only get right here on the Rx7club

FCKing1995

iTrader: (3)

why not go full poly? well i guess it depends on your goals, im wanting best performance i can get, ride comfort isnt an issue to me

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Carl has a write up on his website about boring out the stock bushings to make the upper contol arms and watts link more pliable/compliant and reducing the binding. I have an idea I've been concidering to accomplish the same thing, but with poly bushings.

I am looking at drilling a series of holes in a circle around the midpoint, between the bolt and outer sleeve, through the bushing. This should allow the poly bush to twist more between the inner and outer diameters, while still maintaining most of it's stiffness. Too small or too few holes won't have much effect. Too many or too large of holes and the bush may split.

That being said, all of my bushes are poly and I have no complaints, but I don't track or push the car to it's limits either.

IanS

iTrader: (4)

^^^ But you need to. Now get to that abandoned parking lot and give it a try!!!!

no_name

I have polly bushings everywhere. What a difference, the steering play was greatly reduced, the car feels so much firmer then it did before as well. I also did not feel any difference in the ride, and if you lube up the bushings as the instructions say you get no squeeking.

This mod is great, I also noticed it made the car a bit tale happy so it reduced understeer. Now my set up is bone stock in case you were wondering.

Buffumguy1

I put energy poly bushings in the watts link, the inner bushing on the lower front control arm, the front of the strut bars arms, and both sway bars came with poly bushing when I replaced those. The folks at Racing Beat told me that you need as much compliance in the upper and lower rear control arms as possible to help the bind issue that everyone refers to. So, I left those stock. I was thinking that the ride would be harsh, and I was willing to accept that, but it has turned out to be great, not harsh at all. Plus, I have hardly any body roll. Great mod, use plenty of the lube.

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

I put poly bushings in the front and on the rear I left the old link bushings alone, put poly on the watts linkage and the sway bar end links but left the sway bar mount bushings on the axle rubber. I can really feel the difference up front and the snap oversteer is not worse than before. I've autocrossed the car in the past and its definitely a lot better with these changes. My reasoning for leaving the links and sway bar mount bushings rubber was to keep the flex in those areas to keep the snap oversteer under control. I think it's working fine as it is. I still have some oversteer ( but thats just plain fun sometimes :-) but its not bad. Make sure you lube the bushings with lube provided so they don't make noise. I also have RB springs and new shocks so the car feels like a new vehicle again.

BridgePorted12A

iTrader: (6)

thanks for posting and all the info guys! I talked to Billy @ ReSpeed (Thanks!) and he was very helpful when talking to him on where I should put poly bushings and where I shouldn't. His thoughts were to put poly bushings everywhere on the car except the upper rear control arms. He explained the binding issue you all have been talking about and it made sense. I plan on auto-xing the car and possibly tracking it, so I am trying to get the best performance out of the suspension, w/ as much predictability as to oversteer.

Ryan

lovintha7

I would put poly bushings up front, and do Carl's mod to the rear with NEW OEM bushings. I'd also upgrade the sway bars with Racing Beats with their end links.

The reason for this (Especially for road course/autox) is that you want a stiff front end to prevent all the weight going there under braking. If the rear end is light, and you go to turn in, you'll spin the car around (oversteer). If you keep the front end from dropping too much, then you have balanced weight.

For the rear, you want a somewhat mediocre soft suspension (not rock solid, but not like a pillow)so that under acceleration you can get the rear to squat and the tires to hook, but don't rip the front end up causing understeer as you leave the apex.

Mostly though, it's about balance of the car. You need to manage the inertia of the car's weight, and suspension setup is key to that. Lastly, you HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO be smooth while driving. Slower is faster in most cases.

jgrewe

iTrader: (1)

Use poly in the rear lower arms and watts link, leave the rubber in the uppers. It isn't a twist issue of the bushings its an effective shortening(or lenghtening on the other side) of the arm when the car leans.

Also, in the front its best not to use poly on the back side of the trailing rod. If you use poly on both front and rear of this link it becomes part of the spring rate of the front suspension. Think of the poly as a less extreme way of tightening this point all the way to the washers touching the metal mount it goes through. How would it move if you just had the washers clamping the metal? The arm itself becomes a spring. So, with urethane you have just increased the resistance to the movement and added this rod and bushing to the spring system. At the most you can put it in the front side of this mount and that will still allow the rubber to flex. The poly will take the main loads that go through that link which is to the rear(under braking and general wheel drag) Very little load goes through that mount pushing forward so rubber is OK there.

I would also put poly in the front swaybar links and remove the rear bar totally. Also put poly in the inner side of the front arms.

Kentetsu

That's some interesting information jgrewe. I bought the front end set from www.p-s-t.com and have been pretty happy with it. Changing out those bushings really made a difference, as did the ball joints and tie rod ends. The safety factor is nice too (you should have seen the condition of the stuff I replaced)...

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Exactly how I would have put it. We also have a plastic spherical for the trailing rods to eliminate just that problem. The rear bar had always been removed from the cars we raced as well.

-billy

peejay

In the front, they make the handling *better*. The suspension moves more freely so the ride is actually improved. Downside isn't bumpiness but rather "roughness", IE any road texture comes through loud and clear to the steering wheel.

On the other hand, if your bushings are gone (they probably are) you will be amazed at the difference. My car used to jump around at random on roads with any amount of rutting or cross-grooving. That is now 100% *gone*. The dart-and-weave maneuver under braking has been exorcised too.

A word of advice: Don't bother with Energy Suspension poly bushings for the tension rods. I did, and was unimpressd with the way it goes together. The sleeves are way too short for the nuts to tighten against them, so you wind up compressing the hell out of the bushings. Eat low on the food chain for a while and pony up the bucks for the G-Force Engineering tension rod setup, which uses the stock tension rod/bracket but is a multipiece set that in effect turns it into a giant plastic rod-end. It's cheap at $90 for what you get.

This is true. The stock 4 link has some pretty hefty geometrical bind issues, and is the main reason that the upper link mounts like to detach from the body. Putting plastic in the lowers is A-OK. The Energy Suspension set is actually a 3 piece unit for each rear bushing, one really stiff center bushing to handle the fore/aft loads, and soft end-bushings to allow torsional compliance. Next best thing to having rod-ends.

That can't hurt, after all it worked on several million cars. But we can do better than new, and my modus operandi is "if we're in there, let's make things better if we can".

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Wheres the ReSpeed love Peejay? Our tension rod kit is $61.99.

http://www.mrcmfg.com/respeed/catalo...20104b0b85a911



-billy

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

Theres a lot of good info in here. Now I have to go back and redo some of my poly bushings :-(

This should be archived. Its a must read for anyone wanting to upgrade the suspension with poly bushings.

peejay

A: Never heard of ReSpeed.

B: G Force Engineering is local to me and Jim Susko rocks.

C: There is no C.

BridgePorted12A

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for all the great info guys! Def a lot of helpful information that clears up the questions I had and some that didn't even come to mind . (Also, thanks to Billy @ ReSpeed) --> you really took the time to explain these issues we are talking about and the solutions to them concerning replacement bushings, I app. it!

Anyone looking for any parts for their FBs, esp. poly bushings I highly recommend heading over to ReSpeed's website and checking them out, great pricing and customer service.--> http://www.mrcmfg.com/respeed/

Ryan

Re-Speed.com

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Ryan. Glad we could help you.
At least someone has heard of us

-billy

wecycle

I used the Energy Suspension complete kit including all the track and watts link bushings on my SA.
The rear swaybar bushings they list were the wrong size, The tie rod and ball joint boots were wrong and needed a bit of custom work to make them fit, and the strut rod bushings were thicker than factory which required a bit of adjustment to get the correct caster.
They did tighten up the feel a great deal.
I Koni struts and HP shocks at the same time. I have yet to see the "snap oversteer" that some talk about but that may be due to campaigning X1/9's for many years. Maybe I am just used to a neutral or even tail happy car. I am also on ancient all season tires so maybe some handling quirks will show up when I get some sticky tires.