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What would I need to do to get about 200 hp on a gsl-se...
I am going to put the RB exaust set up........but dont want to rebuild and port my engine.........it has 91k
and otherwise perfect shape......Still has all the smog stuff......clutch fan......Im in So cal.........
It just isn't possible without porting, unless you go with a turbo and low compression rotors, but that is out of the question because it will mean rebuilding. the most you will reach is 170-180 on a stockport engine. i remember reading someware that the most power a stockport engine can put out is 170hp, since the ports are too small to flow enough air at that power level without forced induction.
The single biggest restriction on the GSL-SE (or any 13B n/a RX-7) is the air flow meter. You're car breathes through a 4 square inch hole that has a spring loaded trap door across it. Bad for power. The next restriction is the intake manifold. Believe it or not you will actually still gain power regardless of the afm by simply swapping to an S4 or S5 intake manifold. The RB long primary, or as they call it streetport exhaust, will give you the most gains. Convert the ignition system to direct fire. This helps power and gas mileage. All of this might get you to 200 at the crank but nowhere close at the wheels. I'd suggest a Microtech or other standalone ecu to get rid of the afm and retune for your mods. Just by removing the afm (assuming tuning could stay the same) you'd gain about 10% power just from increased airflow. This also assumes you still have the stock intake manifold on it. Since the Microtech does fuel and ignition, it easily bypasses the need to convert the stock distributer to direct fire. Just use a 2nd gen crank angle sensor and coils. Now do the exhaust and manifold swap. You will have a very nice amount of power. Porting it would then take you up to the 200 rwhp mark. If you go really mild on the primary ports gas mileage could be mostly retained as well. That's how I'd do it.
200 isn't impossible to get... You should get damn close with a Weber, RB exhaust, electric fan, underdrive pulleys, pineapple 6-port sleeves (although I've heard about the whole "blowing the engine" thing), and a custom cold air intake for the carb hat. The timing should be advanced 7.5 degrees for leading and trailing as well. Along with the carb, you'll need a low (or 2) pressure fuel pump and a fuel pressure regulator (FPR). MSD ignition with good coils also should free up a couple HP, and make the car run A LOT better.
That should get you to about 190, providing the engine and all the other drivetrain components are in perfect shape. With that much more power, a Centreforce stage I or II might be a good idea as well. I've been toying with the idea of carb'ing my SE for a while...
one thing ive been wondering, i have an 84 gsl-se and according to my hayes manual and many internet sites the 13b 6 port puts out 133hp( at crank i think). If that is true, then either racing beat is lying when they say their exhaust systems give u at least 22% which alone will boost u to almost 170 hp at teh crank
Big Jim : The Racing Beat catalog doesn't specify at wheel horsepower or at crank, but I would assume that they are speaking of crank hp. 22% = about 30 hp. That brings the total crank hp to about 163, and assuming a high 20% driveline loss you get ~130 wheel hp. Pretty good for just bolt-on exhaust.
Anyways, on a side note, I was wondering how you get ~25 mpg! I've gotten 22 once for all highway, but usually average only 16!
Originally posted by 1984special Big Jim : The Racing Beat catalog doesn't specify at wheel horsepower or at crank, but I would assume that they are speaking of crank hp. 22% = about 30 hp. That brings the total crank hp to about 163, and assuming a high 20% driveline loss you get ~130 wheel hp. Pretty good for just bolt-on exhaust.
Anyways, on a side note, I was wondering how you get ~25 mpg! I've gotten 22 once for all highway, but usually average only 16!
my street port got 27mpg on the interstate till i moved to nm, no air up here
I know this is a old thread, but this is exactly the question i have. From my research porting a 6 port 13b dosen't do much or is not worth the money. Now a 4 port 13b would make big gains with porting. I have a gslse that im building into a track day toy and all i think i would need is 200whp on a gutted car that hp should be plenty. I really don't want to turbo the car or swap in my 4.8 ls I have on the engine stand..
It would seem the obvious route is your everyday rotary power mods plus a ida fuel injection system?? Am i right??
I know this is a old thread, but this is exactly the question i have. From my research porting a 6 port 13b dosen't do much or is not worth the money. Now a 4 port 13b would make big gains with porting. I have a gslse that im building into a track day toy and all i think i would need is 200whp on a gutted car that hp should be plenty. I really don't want to turbo the car or swap in my 4.8 ls I have on the engine stand..
It would seem the obvious route is your everyday rotary power mods plus a ida fuel injection system?? Am i right??
You may want to start a new thread but I think a bridge ported 4 port 13B with a tuned air fuel delivery (maybe injected) would get you close.
thanks for the reply, so that means buying a turbo 13b engine because the old school 4 port 13b are impossible to find. I thought about just buying a rx8 engine because with exhaust and some other mods those put out near 200whp plus i would have a awesome 6 speed trans.
The downside is those engines are not as durable as the old rotary engines; which might not be bad for me because this is going to be a track car only, probably 5 times a year...
From my research porting a 6 port 13b dosen't do much or is not worth the money. Now a 4 port 13b would make big gains with porting.
when comparing the potential between them, yes.
the way i look at it is you're still applying the principle of porting to the engine, so it would help, and you would need every trick you can use to get to the goal you set.
I have a gslse that im building into a track day toy and all i think i would need is 200whp on a gutted car that hp should be plenty. I really don't want to turbo the car or swap in my 4.8 ls I have on the engine stand..
there was a time when i would have been so against the idea of a V8, but as you said, this is a track car so i would have to say sit on this one. you very well may have to play that card at some point. let's face it. we're at a point where finding parts for the older rotaries is an issue. as long as you can find a class where the car would fit with a V8, why not?
It would seem the obvious route is your everyday rotary power mods plus a ida fuel injection system?? Am i right??
basically anything that gets rid of the stock intake manifold and engine management will yield power. if your goal is 200 at the wheels, then it's still a lofty goal, but it's still progress.
you could go bolt-ons first (exhaust, standalone EMS, intake, flywheel), then rebuild with porting, Gen 2 rotors and counters - maybe clearance and carbons (my thinking here is to get the most time out of your housings, not just the higher revs), too. ii'm just throwing out ideas.
Originally Posted by HotGritz910
thanks for the reply, so that means buying a turbo 13b engine because the old school 4 port 13b are impossible to find.
not necessarily. 12A parts are kind of scarce now, too, but you can still find them and all you would need are the front and rear side housings. generally speaking, i feel you though.
I thought about just buying a rx8 engine because with exhaust and some other mods those put out near 200whp plus i would have a awesome 6 speed trans.
The downside is those engines are not as durable as the old rotary engines; which might not be bad for me because this is going to be a track car only, probably 5 times a year...
i like this idea, too. maybe sit on this one, too. if it doesn't work out, then use the 4.8.
if you take care of oiling and try to mitigate the carbon as best you can, i think you could probably get more of a Renesis. those are my personal thoughts. i haven't logged in over at Rx8Club in a while so i don't know if they have already worked out some of those issues already.
Thanks for the feedback. That 4.8 would probably ruin what's special about the fb but reliability and downtime would greatly improve. The smart idea would be to swap in the 4.8 because race cars break and the ls is the number one engine right now....but a fire spitting 13b never gets old. Ill try to find a ida carb setup thats got to be good for about 20hp if turned right
The single biggest restriction on the GSL-SE (or any 13B n/a RX-7) is the air flow meter. You're car breathes through a 4 square inch hole that has a spring loaded trap door across it. Bad for power. The next restriction is the intake manifold. Believe it or not you will actually still gain power regardless of the afm by simply swapping to an S4 or S5 intake manifold. The RB long primary, or as they call it streetport exhaust, will give you the most gains. Convert the ignition system to direct fire. This helps power and gas mileage. All of this might get you to 200 at the crank but nowhere close at the wheels. I'd suggest a Microtech or other standalone ecu to get rid of the afm and retune for your mods. Just by removing the afm (assuming tuning could stay the same) you'd gain about 10% power just from increased airflow. This also assumes you still have the stock intake manifold on it. Since the Microtech does fuel and ignition, it easily bypasses the need to convert the stock distributer to direct fire. Just use a 2nd gen crank angle sensor and coils. Now do the exhaust and manifold swap. You will have a very nice amount of power. Porting it would then take you up to the 200 rwhp mark. If you go really mild on the primary ports gas mileage could be mostly retained as well. That's how I'd do it.
I know this is an old thread, but I just wanted to see if anybody has done an S4/S5 intake swap lately who can comment on it as it's my understanding that it's not exactly a direct fit. I read a guy who had an S5 upper intake and an S4 lower intake who said his ran well. Parts are only like $200 on eBay, probably less if I went to a scrap yard. I already have a RB exhaust, if I swap the intake will I need to pick up a stand alone ECU like a megasquirt to get it running right or will she just go with the stock ECU?
for your other question, i suspect if you had (access to) the know-how and made the effort, then you could probably get it to run on the stock ECU. however, i don't know because my general attitude towards that prospect is ... why? just go stand-alone.
for your other question, i suspect if you had (access to) the know-how and made the effort, then you could probably get it to run on the stock ECU. however, i don't know because my general attitude towards that prospect is ... why? just go stand-alone.
Thanks for the thread links man. Nothing against a standalone or any desire to want to make the stock ECU work. Just a bit intimidated when it comes to electrical components is all
I have done it, 210 at the wheels. GSL-SE housings ported, S5 intake and throttle body, MS3Pro, and LS coils. Be aware that at this power level you will need a second oil cooler.
09-16-03, 08:17 AM
