Make that 230rwhp streetport 13bre n/a
02-06-09, 01:14 AM
#1
Make that 230rwhp streetport 13bre n/a
So I got a little bit of time today, and did some more pulls on the little first gen again.
Its been such a good car, fires up even when it got down to -10 over here in ohio, and drives through a blizzard. Gets beat on everyday, countless pulls on the dyno. What more can I ask for. Anyway, how did we go from 216rwhp to 230rwhp? Details!
1) I shortened up the intake manifold 2" on the lower half. Just like we do to our 20b conversions.
2) Shortened up the primary header length as needed
3) Re-tune fuel and timing map as needed
4) Stir on the dyno
We are definitely excited with the results. Granted as always there is still more to be gained. But I dont see a need as of now. This is my daily driver, so no customer is going to keep me from posting a nice number. Its free for all to see and hopefully enjoy as much as we did!
What now? Well I want to post videos of big smokey burnouts, down low drivability, and of course full throttle fun through all the gears!
Good news for anyone wanting this power-
a) We will be making a header for sale within the next few weeks. It will be full 321 stainless.
b) It can come with the identical port template this engine has in it. The circuit port.
Questions you may have about this header-
Is it a long primary or short primary system? Neither! I would call it a medium primary.
Its cool that it works on your engine, but what if we have a different port design, or intake length? Our header will be the first that is..... adjustable! It will come with slip fit primary tubes so tuning can be done on the dyno very fast to find your specific needs. We tested and tested some more, so almost all intake lengths can be optimized!
So.....Here is the dyno chart.
Its been such a good car, fires up even when it got down to -10 over here in ohio, and drives through a blizzard. Gets beat on everyday, countless pulls on the dyno. What more can I ask for. Anyway, how did we go from 216rwhp to 230rwhp? Details!
1) I shortened up the intake manifold 2" on the lower half. Just like we do to our 20b conversions.
2) Shortened up the primary header length as needed
3) Re-tune fuel and timing map as needed
4) Stir on the dyno
We are definitely excited with the results. Granted as always there is still more to be gained. But I dont see a need as of now. This is my daily driver, so no customer is going to keep me from posting a nice number. Its free for all to see and hopefully enjoy as much as we did!
What now? Well I want to post videos of big smokey burnouts, down low drivability, and of course full throttle fun through all the gears!
Good news for anyone wanting this power-
a) We will be making a header for sale within the next few weeks. It will be full 321 stainless.
b) It can come with the identical port template this engine has in it. The circuit port.
Questions you may have about this header-
Is it a long primary or short primary system? Neither! I would call it a medium primary.
Its cool that it works on your engine, but what if we have a different port design, or intake length? Our header will be the first that is..... adjustable! It will come with slip fit primary tubes so tuning can be done on the dyno very fast to find your specific needs. We tested and tested some more, so almost all intake lengths can be optimized!
So.....Here is the dyno chart.
02-06-09, 08:56 AM
#3
Slow
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Louisville, Ky
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Very nice. I can't wait for videos.
Where abouts did you end up as far as header length to the collector? (I understand this doesn't mean much without knowing more about the ports, etc. but I would still like to have an idea)
Where abouts did you end up as far as header length to the collector? (I understand this doesn't mean much without knowing more about the ports, etc. but I would still like to have an idea)
02-06-09, 02:31 PM
#6
It should be noted that without his exact tuning, his exact headers won't give you the same results. Why? Speed of sound! As an example, if car A has exhaust temps at 1600 degrees and car B has 1400 degree exhaust temps, with the same length headers their exhaust tuning will be almost 900 rpm different!!!
Now saying that, a good design is a good design and seeing a good design come out is definitely not bad by any means. I just hope no one thinks that trying to copy is going to give them the exact same results. You may get close which in the end may be good enough.
Now saying that, a good design is a good design and seeing a good design come out is definitely not bad by any means. I just hope no one thinks that trying to copy is going to give them the exact same results. You may get close which in the end may be good enough.
02-06-09, 03:21 PM
#7
Slow
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Louisville, Ky
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I'm just looking for a rough estimate. I want to see the difference between a properly built stock port header and this one built for a streetport and higher RPM, since it's never really discussed and I don't have the resources to find out on my own. I understand the variables and wouldn't expect the length to work on any motor other than this one.
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02-06-09, 03:41 PM
#8
I could post a photo of the headers on my car, but they are very backyard with lots of cuts and welds that wont be in the header we will sell. Just a few more weeks I will post photos of the production header
It will be so much nicer.
02-06-09, 04:57 PM
#11
Old [Sch|F]ool
I'd like to see what it does over 8500... if you can shape the torque curve so there is a "hump" just below your shift-to point, the engine generally will recover from shifting faster and it will accelerate like nobody's business.
Looks like the "hump" is about 7500rpm... so shift at 10k+?
On the other hand 150ft-lb at the wheels is still way nothing to sneeze at! And it's doing 120ft-lb after the shiftpoint.
02-06-09, 05:09 PM
#12
Thank you! And yes the assembly was fully balanced
Thanks! They are 50" on this setup. The production header will have adjustable length + and - over 14 inches. Still may not be perfectly optimal, but it will be a good amount better than anything else on the market to buy off the shelf.
I could post a photo of the headers on my car, but they are very backyard with lots of cuts and welds that wont be in the header we will sell. Just a few more weeks I will post photos of the production header It will be so much nicer.
Thanks! They are 50" on this setup. The production header will have adjustable length + and - over 14 inches. Still may not be perfectly optimal, but it will be a good amount better than anything else on the market to buy off the shelf.
I could post a photo of the headers on my car, but they are very backyard with lots of cuts and welds that wont be in the header we will sell. Just a few more weeks I will post photos of the production header
It will be so much nicer.
02-06-09, 07:43 PM
#13
I'd like to see what it does over 8500... if you can shape the torque curve so there is a "hump" just below your shift-to point, the engine generally will recover from shifting faster and it will accelerate like nobody's business.
Looks like the "hump" is about 7500rpm... so shift at 10k+?
On the other hand 150ft-lb at the wheels is still way nothing to sneeze at! And it's doing 120ft-lb after the shiftpoint.
Looks like the "hump" is about 7500rpm... so shift at 10k+?
On the other hand 150ft-lb at the wheels is still way nothing to sneeze at! And it's doing 120ft-lb after the shiftpoint.
02-07-09, 07:08 PM
#20
Old [Sch|F]ool
8900 / 3.62, times 2.12, is 5200rpm. So, 5000rpm is important with a stock trans, unless you're geared so short that you get to shift 3-4 a lot (or simply drive that fast, which some people do I guess
)My quandary is even worse... it's even worse on dirt because you're not actually going that fast when you shift because of tire spin, but the tires stop spinning when you shift, and the engine bogs down at 4000rpm or worse... this is why I am thinking a torque curve that tapers off at the top end is good, even if it means losing peak HP. (It's also why I have flat shift... that and I like scaring corner workers
)On the other hand, Autotech offers close ratio gearsets for about $3k now...
02-07-09, 08:15 PM
#21
A standard 1st-gen trans has a ~3.62 First and 2.12 2nd. (Going from memory, may be off a hair)
8900 / 3.62, times 2.12, is 5200rpm. So, 5000rpm is important with a stock trans, unless you're geared so short that you get to shift 3-4 a lot (or simply drive that fast, which some people do I guess )
My quandary is even worse... it's even worse on dirt because you're not actually going that fast when you shift because of tire spin, but the tires stop spinning when you shift, and the engine bogs down at 4000rpm or worse... this is why I am thinking a torque curve that tapers off at the top end is good, even if it means losing peak HP. (It's also why I have flat shift... that and I like scaring corner workers )
On the other hand, Autotech offers close ratio gearsets for about $3k now...
8900 / 3.62, times 2.12, is 5200rpm. So, 5000rpm is important with a stock trans, unless you're geared so short that you get to shift 3-4 a lot (or simply drive that fast, which some people do I guess
)My quandary is even worse... it's even worse on dirt because you're not actually going that fast when you shift because of tire spin, but the tires stop spinning when you shift, and the engine bogs down at 4000rpm or worse... this is why I am thinking a torque curve that tapers off at the top end is good, even if it means losing peak HP. (It's also why I have flat shift... that and I like scaring corner workers
)On the other hand, Autotech offers close ratio gearsets for about $3k now...
02-07-09, 09:25 PM
#22
Old [Sch|F]ool
No worries... an engine's gotta be tuned for its intended purpose, including the intended gears that will be used. I've noticed too that the stock tach never seems to drop down quickly enough to make the RPM drop look as severe as the math makes it. Shows right up with a high quality tach, though.
For course work or (ahem) driving on the highway, it looks pretty sweet.
For course work or (ahem) driving on the highway, it looks pretty sweet.
02-08-09, 03:06 PM
#25
I took it to the track last year when it had 185rwhp and ran a 14.1 @ 100mph with a 2.1 60ft. It weighs 2300lbs making it a 10:1 power to weight ratio. If I had some good tires, MAYBE could squeeze 12.9 out of it, but I would even be happy to post a 13.4 personally. I have a fun race lined up with a 04' EVO making 320awhp so that will be in the videos. Just need to get my camera guy out here to film it lol.