CA Reintroduces Bill for ANNUAL Emissions Tests for Vehicles 15-Years & older
03-26-09, 01:18 PM
#26
Still Loves his Lancer
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Annual tests?! As of January they already are requiring all OBD1 cars to meet the OBD2 standards. So that means you need a new cat, that's $400 now BTW, and we will have to test every year. This blows! Lets not forget about the higher registration fees coming up soon. Oh and the higher insurance for driving a sports car. California is sucking harder and harder lately. If it wasn't for the weather and my great friends, I may have left already.
03-26-09, 10:00 PM
#28
angry bee
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FYI i live in a small town outside of san diego and i am smog exempt, so if you can get a po box in boulevard CA, you only have to smog once when you first register your car, then your home free to say **** you smog notzi
03-27-09, 02:35 PM
#29
Still Loves his Lancer
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I cannot find a link to it right now. I am going off of what a smog tech told me recently. I understand what you are saying. We would need a new ECU and additional sensors to make our cars OBD2. I belive it has to do with catalytic coverter production requirements. What he told me was that California is going to be requireing pre obd2 cars will be required to pass the emission levels required for OBD2 cars. AKA what is coming out of the tailpipe will be a stiffer requirement. I will keep looking into this and see what I can find out. I honestly hope I am completely wrong. I don't know how the state could require cars that are completely legal and compliant to the smog requirements of the year they were sold to comply with newer regualtions.
03-27-09, 02:44 PM
#30
Rotary its a way of life
if they wanna pay us to have that new stuff installed fine by me but if they want us to pay for it and to have it installed they got another thing coming
03-27-09, 03:27 PM
#31
I confirmed it with my muffler friend. He said that you must install a new type of catalytic converter when you are buying a replacement. I was just talking to him about throwing in a new cat in my Tercel so I can pass smog legit. He told me with the new law it would cost me 190 dollars for him to put a new one in. This kind of **** right here is going to cause people to start rolling dirty with no registration. Add the 60 dollars for a smog check and it is about 250 dollars to get the car going legit. I've been doing a dirty smog with this thing forever and now I want to do it correctly only to find out that I'll be getting raped in trying to make things right with the law. I may opt to just do another dirty since it will cost me less. This is a recession we are in and all this extra bullshit is piling on at the wrong time.
03-27-09, 03:33 PM
#32
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
I confirmed it with my muffler friend. He said that you must install a new type of catalytic converter when you are buying a replacement. I was just talking to him about throwing in a new cat in my Tercel so I can pass smog legit. He told me with the new law it would cost me 190 dollars for him to put a new one in. This kind of **** right here is going to cause people to start rolling dirty with no registration. Add the 60 dollars for a smog check and it is about 250 dollars to get the car going legit. I've been doing a dirty smog with this thing forever and now I want to do it correctly only to find out that I'll be getting raped in trying to make things right with the law. I may opt to just do another dirty since it will cost me less. This is a recession we are in and all this extra bullshit is piling on at the wrong time.
03-27-09, 05:31 PM
#34
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
I cannot find a link to it right now. I am going off of what a smog tech told me recently. I understand what you are saying. We would need a new ECU and additional sensors to make our cars OBD2. I belive it has to do with catalytic coverter production requirements. What he told me was that California is going to be requireing pre obd2 cars will be required to pass the emission levels required for OBD2 cars. AKA what is coming out of the tailpipe will be a stiffer requirement. I will keep looking into this and see what I can find out. I honestly hope I am completely wrong. I don't know how the state could require cars that are completely legal and compliant to the smog requirements of the year they were sold to comply with newer regualtions.
Your smog tech was full of ****.
OBD II is simply software in the ECU that reports error codes (such as the O2 sensor failed or there is a bad spark plug and it is mis-firing, or the airflow meter is not reading) and a specific hardware plug for those diagnostics.
It has nothing what so ever with emissions levels. For example, a 1994 Toyota (that does not come with OBDII) meets the same emissions levels as a 1997 Toyota Truck that has OBDII.
It is has nothing to do with emissions! Don't pass on and scare people with that crap.
03-27-09, 08:58 PM
#35
No, he is NOT full of ****.
In short, shops and stores can no longer install or sell "universal" catalytic converters in California. They will have numbers stamped on them to identify which vehicle they go on, they are OEM replacement. However currently having a universal cat on your car is not illegal, nor is there a way for them to prove it was installed yesterday or last year.
http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04california.asp
CALIFORNIA VEHICLE APPLICATION CATALOG INSTRUCTIONS - For California Application look-up it will no longer be based upon G.V.W. (Gross Vehicle Weight) and engine size. Catalytic Converter Application look-up for California ONLY is the only approved method for determining the correct part number. It is illegal in California to select a catalytic converter for installation based solely on vehicle weight, engine size, physical shape, size, configuration or pipe diameter.
New California Aftermarket Catalytic Converters
As of January 1st, 2009, What You Can and What You Cannot Sell/Required:
(A) The vehicle is specifically included in the vehicle application list for which the new aftermarket catalytic converter has been exempted;
(B) The vehicle is more than 7 years old or has more than 70,000 miles on its odometer;
(C) The vehicle is beyond the coverage of the OEM catalyst warranty period (which can vary from 7 years or 70,000 miles to as high as 15 years or 150,000 miles).2 Installers may reference the vehicle owner’s manual/warranty booklet or contact the vehicle manufacturer or its representative to verify the applicable OEM catalyst warranty;
(D) The vehicle has a legitimate need for replacement of the existing converter that has been established and documented by the installer on the repair invoice. If the OEM converter is present, the installer must make a determination that it is not functioning properly before acting to replace it;
(E) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed in the same location as the OEM catalytic converter it is designed to replace. The front face of the installed catalytic converter shall be no more than three inches further upstream or downstream in the exhaust from where the front face of the OEM catalytic converter was located. The installation may not alter the location, position, or orientation of oxygen sensors upstream and downstream of the catalytic converter(s);
(F) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed on a one-for one catalytic converter (not substrate) basis;
(G) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed with all other required catalytic converters (no consolidation of catalytic converters, nor addition of extra catalytic converters is allowed); and
(H) A warranty card has been filled out by the installer, signed by the customer, attached to the repair invoice, and a copy returned to the manufacturer.
(I) Installers shall keep documentation regarding the installation of the new aftermarket catalytic converters including all of the above information. This documentation shall be made available to ARB or its representative as provided for in title 13, section 2222(b)(8). All such records shall be maintained for four years from the date of sale or installation of the catalytic converter.
As of January 1st, 2009, What You Can and What You Cannot Sell/Required:
(A) The vehicle is specifically included in the vehicle application list for which the new aftermarket catalytic converter has been exempted;
(B) The vehicle is more than 7 years old or has more than 70,000 miles on its odometer;
(C) The vehicle is beyond the coverage of the OEM catalyst warranty period (which can vary from 7 years or 70,000 miles to as high as 15 years or 150,000 miles).2 Installers may reference the vehicle owner’s manual/warranty booklet or contact the vehicle manufacturer or its representative to verify the applicable OEM catalyst warranty;
(D) The vehicle has a legitimate need for replacement of the existing converter that has been established and documented by the installer on the repair invoice. If the OEM converter is present, the installer must make a determination that it is not functioning properly before acting to replace it;
(E) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed in the same location as the OEM catalytic converter it is designed to replace. The front face of the installed catalytic converter shall be no more than three inches further upstream or downstream in the exhaust from where the front face of the OEM catalytic converter was located. The installation may not alter the location, position, or orientation of oxygen sensors upstream and downstream of the catalytic converter(s);
(F) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed on a one-for one catalytic converter (not substrate) basis;
(G) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed with all other required catalytic converters (no consolidation of catalytic converters, nor addition of extra catalytic converters is allowed); and
(H) A warranty card has been filled out by the installer, signed by the customer, attached to the repair invoice, and a copy returned to the manufacturer.
(I) Installers shall keep documentation regarding the installation of the new aftermarket catalytic converters including all of the above information. This documentation shall be made available to ARB or its representative as provided for in title 13, section 2222(b)(8). All such records shall be maintained for four years from the date of sale or installation of the catalytic converter.
http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04california.asp
03-30-09, 05:01 PM
#37
Still Loves his Lancer
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ODBII is a computer standard, not related to emissions at all.
Your smog tech was full of ****.
OBD II is simply software in the ECU that reports error codes (such as the O2 sensor failed or there is a bad spark plug and it is mis-firing, or the airflow meter is not reading) and a specific hardware plug for those diagnostics.
It has nothing what so ever with emissions levels. For example, a 1994 Toyota (that does not come with OBDII) meets the same emissions levels as a 1997 Toyota Truck that has OBDII.
It is has nothing to do with emissions! Don't pass on and scare people with that crap.
Your smog tech was full of ****.
OBD II is simply software in the ECU that reports error codes (such as the O2 sensor failed or there is a bad spark plug and it is mis-firing, or the airflow meter is not reading) and a specific hardware plug for those diagnostics.
It has nothing what so ever with emissions levels. For example, a 1994 Toyota (that does not come with OBDII) meets the same emissions levels as a 1997 Toyota Truck that has OBDII.
It is has nothing to do with emissions! Don't pass on and scare people with that crap.
I understand what you are saying. I need to do my homework before I pass anything on. Information is only valuable if it is good information.
I believe that the information that Aeka GSR found was what the tech was referring to. I do remember him saying specifically that OBD1 and older cars were going to be held to OBD2 standards. He was probably just trying to get me to buy shop time to "make sure that it passed the tougher standards". Time to find a new smog tech. You nailed it Icemark, my smog tech was full of ****.
03-30-09, 07:57 PM
#38
Driving RX7's since 1979
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Form of email I just sent to each of the listed assembly members
So far, the following e-mail addresses seem to be bad:
Assemblymember.Furutani@assembly.ca.gov
Assemblymember.Eng@asm.ca.gov
So, to get to them you'll need to do a little research.
Anyway, here you go.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The top three things that should be considered for this proposal is:
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that vehicles 15-years old and older still constitute a small portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that vehicles 15-years old and older still constitute a small portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that vehicles 15-years old and older still constitute a small portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.
The next three things that should be considered are:
·A.B. 859 ignores the minimal impact vintage cars have on air quality.
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that classic vehicles are overwhelmingly well-maintained and infrequently driven.
·A.B. 859 ignores the minimal impact vintage cars have on air quality.
As such, this proposal will provide no meaningful effect if the purpose is indeed to deal with smog control. It WILL, however, create a financial burden on all owners of cars built between 1976 and 1993.
·A.B. 859 would increase costs by creating an annual inspection fee for owners of these vehicles. Not to mention the cost of time needed to go through the process.
I suggest that the biggest tragedy this proposal presents is:
My biggest concern is that this proposal is far more politically oriented than environmentally oriented:
PLEASE don’t allow this bill to pass. It accomplishes relatively nothing other than force financial burden on voters who are going through one of the most difficult financial times in history.
Sincerely,
Assemblymember.Furutani@assembly.ca.gov
Assemblymember.Eng@asm.ca.gov
So, to get to them you'll need to do a little research.
Anyway, here you go.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The top three things that should be considered for this proposal is:
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that vehicles 15-years old and older still constitute a small portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that vehicles 15-years old and older still constitute a small portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that vehicles 15-years old and older still constitute a small portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.
The next three things that should be considered are:
·A.B. 859 ignores the minimal impact vintage cars have on air quality.
·A.B. 859 ignores the fact that classic vehicles are overwhelmingly well-maintained and infrequently driven.
·A.B. 859 ignores the minimal impact vintage cars have on air quality.
As such, this proposal will provide no meaningful effect if the purpose is indeed to deal with smog control. It WILL, however, create a financial burden on all owners of cars built between 1976 and 1993.
·A.B. 859 would increase costs by creating an annual inspection fee for owners of these vehicles. Not to mention the cost of time needed to go through the process.
I suggest that the biggest tragedy this proposal presents is:
- A.B. 859 could entice vintage car owners into allowing these vehicles to be scrapped.
My biggest concern is that this proposal is far more politically oriented than environmentally oriented:
- A.B. 859 represents another attempt by California legislators and regulators to scapegoat older cars.
PLEASE don’t allow this bill to pass. It accomplishes relatively nothing other than force financial burden on voters who are going through one of the most difficult financial times in history.
Sincerely,
04-07-09, 08:44 PM
#40
Wangan Junkie
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i spoke with a state rep the other day and it doesnt look like this is goin to go through, just to let everyone know...
they have tried this law a bunch of times and it never makes it to the governator's desk because its not worthy
they have tried this law a bunch of times and it never makes it to the governator's desk because its not worthy
04-08-09, 05:59 PM
#42
Ya know, the funny thing is that goofball-yet smart-as-a-fox Jay Leno is probably the auto enthusiast's ONLY biggest visible media advocate. Regardless of make, model, year or number of wheels it has. Especially with AB859 looking to scrap older classic cars/ bikes he's not happy like us all. He's on our side.
I'm surprised that Franke-feinstein, Boxer and Senator/Speaker Pelosi havent rubbed him out or dug some "extramarital" dirt on him.
I'm surprised that Franke-feinstein, Boxer and Senator/Speaker Pelosi havent rubbed him out or dug some "extramarital" dirt on him.
04-09-09, 01:02 AM
#44
What fuel crisis?
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I love the weather here in Cali, but damn I hate the politics. I would hate having to deal with smog every year, that another hundred dollars or whatever, plus the time it takes to swap all the smog stuff back on! 
05-01-09, 12:57 PM
#49
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I never understood why CA has the strictest smog laws on Earth yet we are neighbors to mexico. I'm pretty sure the mexican national anthem translates into something like, "be proud mexican people that you do not have to smog your cars!"
