Jaxon

take that same LS1 and stick it in a car that is 500 lbs. lighter than a Camaro. then you can start to understand where us V8 RX-7 guys are coming from

well, if u have a sport or base 86-88 model, you are at 2620 lbs. A z28 weighs about 35xx lbs. So comparing sport model and Z28, you have almost a half a ton weight difference.

Turtle's TII

It's called "hot rodding" it's fun, entertaining, interesting, and educational, not sacreligeous.

An RX-7 is not exactly on the endangered species list. So this whole "it's sacreligeous" issue of destroying it's sole, by installing a V8, or any other motor, is preposterous.

If the rotary motors held up, there would no doubt be less V-8 swaps into these cars. I see a lot of nice looking well cared for RX-7's in the junk yards, for one reason "bad motor", and the book value of the car is not worth the swap (atleast to the non-mechanic type).

So they go to the crusher. Is it better for an RX-7 to be turned into scrap metal? I think not.

What it comes down to is personal preference. As far as which one is the better sports car (handling, accelerating, and braking), using the stock motor/trans for a comparison, the LS1/T56 wins! If Road & Track did a comparison article, you all know the LS1/T56 would win.

3isacharm

yeah, when i'm in that mood, money is no object. it would be cool though.

Icemark

I see a lot of owners that don't have a clue with blown motors... The rotary motors hold up just fine when maintained correctly.

There are plenty of people on the board alone that have motors way past 200K miles on them, with never a valve job or gasket set in sight (something I can't say for any factory domestic powered car I have ever owned or seen). GM in the eighties used to laugh saying its motors were designed to last to 100k miles and no further. Or the mechanics and service advisors who would say that a car that has less than 10000 miles on it uses 2 quarts of oil every 1000 miles is within spec on a GM/Cad V8... I know I have seen that.

But there are also people on this board that have yet to even open the RX-7 owners manual... engine life expectency there is considerably shorter.

With an SA/FB or FC RX-7, it is the owner is what blows the engine... not the car... bad motors are caused by bad owners!!!

scathcart

Although impressive, neither of those are at all functional.

Mile-hile wheelstands make for slower launches, and drifting around a corner is one of the slowest ways to get around a corner.

If I am going to be spending the $15,000+ on a decent V8 swap, I am going to want better launch control than exists in the cases you mention, and better lateral traction than sliding sideways.

Of course, you could argue that both of these are fun... in which case, what is fun about a car built for a single purpose (1/4 mile performance)?

You also might note that the touted best drifter's of Japan do NOT swap V8's into their RX-7's. Odd, wouldn't you say?

V8RX7com

If you spend $15,000 on a V8 RX-7 swap .... it better get 9 sec quarter mile times..... or be, one hell of a beauty queen


Average "decent" V8 swap will run you about $3-7K if you do the labor yourself.

V8RX7com

Chevys and Fords are Imports in Japan. ...a USA domestic V8 RX-7 conversion would make no sense in Japan other then a novelty

Turtle's TII

I agree

There are also a lot more automobile owners that drive piston motors that do not have a clue (more piston motors than rotary + a lot of clueless people). But these people do not seem to have as big of a problem with their non maintained piston motors.

It has been proven, the weight balance is not a factor when set up properly. A V8 RX-7 does not become a straight line only car. Everyone is ASSuming a V8 throws the whole weight balance out the window. Maybe it does in most cars, but in the RX-7 they sit back far enough in the engine bay, that (with some creativity)they can be back to, or real close to the same balance.

Most of the people doing these swaps are concerned with this, and make the necessary adjustments. If all they wanted was a drag car, they would put solid axle rear ends in them. And some do (even the ones with rotaries), but most still want a good handleing, high powered, RELIABLE, fun car.

What it comes down to is the RX-7 is a great candidate for a V8 conversion, period. It's rear wheel drive, has a strong rear end, and great motor position.

wanklin

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't mind seeing an LS6 swap. LS1's do not make anywhere near 400hp stock.... or howabout an engine out of a skyline....

dag

Can anybody finally set it straight and tell us how heavy an ls1 longblock is with full accesories (ie smog) and headers is? It would be nice to have some actual facts. And please, no fudging.

-David Guy
Andern Research Labs, LLC.
dguy@andern.org

allenbillings

I know that everyone thinks that a rotary should remain a rotary, no matter what. In all honesty, I own 2 2nd gen. Rx7s and love the rotary. However, we all know that when a rotary dies (and it's just a matter of time), it costs a bunch to repair and takes a bunch of time to get the new engine and swap it.
I have a dead RX7 in the back yard right now. I plan to bolt in a 4.3L V6 Chevy and give it to the wife for a daily driver. She loves the RX7 for its looks, handling, and interior comfort. This swap will give her a 200,000 mile engine with few worries.
Before you go off on me, you should know that I have a 1990 Chevy pickup with a 4.3L in it that just turned 210,000 miles with no major repairs, as yet. It only uses 1 1/2 qts. of oil every 3,000 miles.
RX7s are like the old Triumph Spitfires. The Spitfires were always fast for their day (Yeah, against similar cars!!) but required lots of maintenance and pampering. A rotary is not the kind of car that you want to give to someone who doesn't always watch their temperature gauge, or doesn't notice a small misfire, or doesn't care about that nasty pinging sound on acceleration.
Am I going to put a V8 in MY RX7?? HELL NO!! I am going to put a V6 in my wife's RX7?? HELL YES!!!

'Vert in Vegas

allenbillings
Check your PM's.
I just found out You don't have PM.
I have this swap under way right now. I will share info!
Ed

wanklin

iTrader: (2)

If Engineers could build a stronger alternative to the apex seal 90% of our engine failures wouldn't occur. There has got to be a better way to isolate each face of the rotors.... I'm not talking about 3.mm seals or ceramics, I mean something completely different. Why not design a 6.mm, three layer apex seal with each layer independently suspended by it's own spring in order to stay strong yet adjust to the contours of the rotor housing. To compensate for the increase in compression the rotors could de drilled or machined slightly. I am going to talk to a mech engineer and a machinest and see if we can get this project under way. Who here would be interested in such an upgrade? You would have to send in your rotors to get the work done of course. This is just a theoretical question as of right now.

Icemark

I told myself I wouldn't waste anymore time in this lame thread and here I am again....

Been tried... been done... 30 years ago. Problem was reducing the friction between the multiple apex seals, where they would cook mixture and then stick.

Then they would shear off, much like a apex seal would if stuck up in a non-multi-piece seal.

There is a reason that the edges of the three piece seals fit inside the rotor...

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

Hey there is a magazine for all you red neck hicks and your V8 swaps its called CAR CRAFT. Also speaking of stock performance and modded has anybody seen what RX7.com has for HP out of there 13B? 648 HP all tucked nicely under the hood. NO blower stickin out or other garbage. Also does anyone know much about these new GM engines? THey basically have no piston skirts and they had to make there tolerances even tighter and it is causing some major engine problems. Also congrats on chevy finally making a **** hair over 400 HP with a 350 Big Whoop! Also anyone ever think by dropping a 350 in the front of the RX that it will no longer be considered a mid engined car. Its not only the weight issue of the 2 motors but where the weight is placed and a V8 will be placing some engine weight in front of the front wheels. Its also sad to see GM's only performance car is now the Corvette. THe Camaro and TAs have joined the RX and are now off the market. If they were such awsome cars why did they leave the market? These were supposidly american classics. I know why the RX7 could not compete in the American market any longer to many hicks wanting V8s well from now on unless you want a pick up your only 2 choices for a new car with a V8 is Mustang or Vette. I am glad to see those Junk White Trash Moblies gone thats all that drove Camaros and TAs go ahead and quote me on that to. Go to any trailer park and you would probably think you where at a Camaro or TA convention. Has anyone ever read the article from Sport Compact Car Magazine that was about the guy who started MAZDA TRIX? He said he got started with the RX7s and Rotarys because he was sick of rebuilding piston enigines and he was tired of camshafts and heads and valves, personally I dont blame him my Camaro was a nightmare it cracked a piston and broke my head, either that or my head broke and and a piece of that craked the piston. Either way what a nightmare and what a hassel from GM trying to get it fixed. Anyway I have the piston as a keepsake and thats how I know there is virtually no piston skirt. I still get Hot Rod magazine and a reader who is "supposidly" a mechanic said that those new pistons GM is using with virtually no skirt is causing a lot of problems. So why don't you take your heavy *** V8s and go to some Hot Rod or Car Craft Web site. As that Camaro was the turning point for me and totally put on the Import side of the house. Every time I look at Consumer Reports the imports are always outstanding for reliabilty and Handling and so on. Also after seeing the beatings my friend puts his 7 through with no major engine problems as of yet has totally won me over. I cant wait to find a Turbo II and start some V8 Stomping!

Icemark

Perhap you may wish to use the return/enter key once in a while, just to start a new thought....

so that people can read what you are saying

Mephis

you ppl aint very smart about outher engines and cars besides rotarys , i may not type anything right but this is the truth , Toqure + High rpm = very fast car , Toqure +low rpm =very good towing vehicle! i worked on Big block race cars about 2 years ago i did everything i mastered the 383 doge and i realy think for the body style and weight , a v8 isnt pratical , if ya wana tow alot maby but if ya wana go fast and take off quick (with a maunal) the rotary is the best!

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

I agree Memphis, Besides has anyone done a look at the LS1 Camaro VS the S2000 in 0-60 or 1/4 mi times? For all you LS1 lovers maybe you should just open up a Motor Trend at look up those times. You maybe SHOCKED! All the extra Torque of the LS1 and 4 extra cylinders did nothing. It is how a car is designed as a whole not just motor alone. It is very impresive to see motors that 3 to 5 times smaller running side by side or even beating the the bigger motors. We all now know my opinion. Opinions are just that opinions.
BUT timeslips are timeslips. The S2000 is just an example of that it has a lot less torque and a about 50 less HP and I have seen the times they are getting with this car in Motor Trend and I have seen the Camaro getting about the same time. Depending on which magazine you read, I believe in the Motor Trend I saw them get better times with the S2000 over the Camaro and Car and Driver the Camaro got the better time or maybe it was the other way around. Anyway these 2 cars are obviously neck and neck. It could be anyones race in a straight up drag. Pretty good the N/A 4 cyl can run with GMs all mighty LS1. GMs V8s are a waste of time unless you have a suburban and your hauling a family of 7 with all there luggage and pulling a camper across the U.S. I will agree they are good for pulling a lot of weight and thats all I will agree with.
Go ahead waste a lot of time, money and energy swapping a V8 into a RX for one it must be real joy to even change plugs on a swap like that and 2 it will be even funnier when the Rotary the engine the car is designed around whoops up on your V8 after you get it in there.
Now the guy that started this post is trying to sell this V8 conversion so of course he is gonna come on here and blow smoke up all our asses on how great it is but think about it. What did he say the place he knows makes all aluminum blocks that can be bored out to a 454 for $4000? Ok a 2nd Gens book value is $4k imagine if you actually went through all the work of doing this and you toataled your car the insurance is gonna give you book value. 2nd if you do not do the V8 swap with the aluminum block your back to the weight issue again and even with the aluminum block I still feel the weight is a issue. And that is just the block for $4k? What about heads? Intake? Headers? Exhaust? Upgraded suspension? and so on. I say by the time I was done with all that I could have called Rotary Performance there website is RX7.COM and had them get me around 500HP for a lot cheaper with my rotary. I feel a 4-500HP Rotary is a little more unique the a 290 HP V8 just another opinion. I have done motor swaps before I had a S-15 Jimmy I swapped a LT1 into did not go smooth. Not to mention if there was a problem I could not figure out when I finally did get it done and running the GM dealer did not wanna touch it and it was real hard finding a mechanic to look at it. I know a good chunk about cars but I am only human and do have car problems that somtimes stump me and do like the option of being able to take it to a dealer or mechanic for diagnostic work.
I urge all of you who are thinking about this swap to think twice. IF you do not believe me on getting 4 to over 500 HP out of your 13B turbo of course please look at the following websites. RX7.COM, Mazdaracing.com, and Mazdatrix.com For the price and hassel not to mention the handeling loss which I say is B.S when someone says there is no loss when swapping a V8 into a 7 look at these guys for some help. These places can get you set up with the power you want with less hassel and less $$ than the NEANDRATHAL V8 Swap. YA know it was cool a long time ago when people swapped V8s into pintos and Vegas but those days are over and gone. Be original... the Rotary is original, lots of **** out there has V8s in em. Not much out there has rotarys. You can look at anyhting these days and find someone has swapped a V8 into it. It really is not original anymore. I seen a Fiero for christ sake not to long ago in Auto Trader with a 8 in it. Big Deal the point has been made. Yes anyone can put a V8 in anything if they want to its not really a shocker anymore. What is a shocker is a 1.3 liter putting out 4 to 500+ HP. If nothing else check out the rotary specailty places I listed there is even more than that thats just a few places I know can get you the big HP for less $$ than a damn V8 swap.
Ok I am gonna try to stay away from this thread now so you V8 lovers can take a sigh and say thank god, I know this is a bit long winded but I feel strongly in the Rotary and after dealing with GM I dont think anyone should have to go through that nightmare.

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

Oh ya just one more thing I did not say the N/A beat my Camaro, I said I did not even get a full car length on him. He does have a True dual Racing Beat Exhaust to include the header and downpipe he purchased from Mazda Trix. He also has a cold air intake and did some other fine tuning. Anyway I did win with the Camao but for a car that much newer with that much bigger of a motor it was nothing to brag about. I also agree with the Renisis Swap Idea. We got people in here who are comparing a 16 yr old rotarys 1.3 liters to brand new V8s that are between 5.3 and 5.7 liters. Let me guess a fair fight to these guys would be them maybe VS a blind man? Also people check out the following sites I posted earlier you can squeeze more power out of the 13Bs you can get 4-500HP no B.S non belivers check out the turbo options from RX7.COM and Mazdaracing.com The RX7.COMs Street car runs 9s at the track this car is STREET LEGAL we all know of pro Drag racers running7s with there RXs with the 13&20Bs. Imagine a 5.7 liter rotary that would send these V8 guys running for cover pretty damn fast. So please read the posts in there intirety from now on. To set the record straight I did beat the N/A RX7 but it was not long after that my LS1 did crack the piston and mess the head up. It got fixed and I sold it. I am now looking for Turbo Rotary. As far as I am concerned that LS1 was a junk motor. Also I hear a bad rumor that a lot of GMs motors are being built in... MEXICO? That sound like GM fire the American guy and move the plant south of the border for unedudcated cheap labor. Ya thats who I want building my motor.
Also if you people do havve money to pay for the all aluminum V8 then you probably have the money to have rotary performance build you 13B with over 650HP like there street legal race car. It would probably be the same in terms of money as a new all aluminum V8 swap except for the 300 extra HP you would be getting with the rotary LOL.

BogusFile

You obviously don't know what you are talking about... If you had ever worked on big block race cars you would know that they are a force to be reckoned with and that they are certainley better at going fast and taking off quick than any rotary.

BogusFile

USMCJSY..... non of your arguements have any substance..
You ask why the camaro and the T/A left the market if they are such kick *** cars? They left for the same reason that the RX-7 left.... nobody was buying them. Im sure the problems that you encountered with your camaro pail in comparison to the problems many people had faced when they bought their new FD's in 93 and found that 50K miles later they needed to replace their motors do to an lackluster coolant system.
Im impressed by high HP 13bs. Why abel ibarra has a 13b pushing somewhere in the ballpark of 800hp. I guess it's worth having to rebuild it every other pass.
On another note... there is nothing wrong with something being built in mexico. Mexicans are building this country every day. There are Fender Strats(guitar) made in mexico that compare to the ones made in japan and the US. And why does everyone who likes V8s have to be a red neck? Does liking a motor that is affordable, powerfull, plentiful, and reliable make you a redneck?
You have made so many assinine comments that I don't have the time or energy to address them all in one sitting.... but I will go on to say one thing.
V8 RX-7's are still fr/mid engine. My motor sits behind my front wheels.... so I don't have any Idea what you are talking about... and it's likely that you don't either. In fact Im willing to guess that your contribution to this thread is based on
A:lies
B:ignorance
C:misinformation
D:all of the above.
Seriously dude.... Im appauld at your stupidity. Reading your posts is almost as bad as being forced to watch a Creed video.

apreludem

wow...heated arguement...i own a 2002 s2000, and yes its an AWESOME car. HOWEVER, they where desined after the honda race car, their "F1" car. stock it runs 13.9...im going by what the magazines say for i have never taken it to the tracks (maybe i should). I love racing camaros and mustangs and either beating them or keeping up with them. I also love the old school mustangs and hot rods. This is obviously a matter or taste and opinion so there should not be any name calling or discrimination (mexican's and such..hell im hispanic). I guess im one of the lucky ones...i like BOTH!

apreludem

allenbillings

I am sorry that things got so heated. When tempers flare, common sense goes out the window. Let's look at some REAL facts:

1: Why is Mazda only putting the rotary in ONE car when they originally had several cars with rotarys? Everyone knows that there are reliability and mileage issues with the rotary. The RX1, RX2, RX3, and RX4 all suffered from the same problems. I personally owned an RX2, an RX3 and even an RX4 wagon. I saw these problems first hand.

2: There are V6 GM engines that are rated at over 700 BHP that run long races (up to 500 miles). And, yes, I meant the V6 NOT the V8. The V8s are rated even higher.

3: This is an RX7 forum. Purists will try to say that the car is no longer an RX7 without the rotary. That's just plain old garden variety B.S.! I'm an old man and engine swaps have been going on since cars were invented. Take a look at what is actually done to an RX7 when you install a V6 or V8. Hell, you can even use the stock speedo and tach!

4: If all you want to do is race, then you better not be buying JSPEC or rebuilt engines. You should have the tools and the knowledge to build the engine yourself. Even the companies that rebuild the rotary don't do it right all of the time. Fix a head or a piston in a V6 and V8 and you have some time and materials in the job and the car in your garage. Fix a problem with a rotary and you have just pulled the engine and probably sent it to someone.

Face it. The problem is with reliability. I LOVE my rotary, just like I said in my previous post. My wife loves her RX7. There's the difference. She needs a no-nonsense, just-drive-it, daily driver. Sit back and think about putting a rotary in a Dodge Dakota or a Chevy S-10. I have. Now let's hear from the folks that say that the Dodge would lose its charm or the Chevy would lose its performance edge!! THINK ABOUT IT!!

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

Ok you guys are right tempers do flare and people get outta control with what they say. However a V8 into a RX7 does make it no longer a RX7. The R in the RX line stands for Rotary. Therefore Swap your motor and you have a X7 Ex meaning it used to be a RX7 but know its just a Mutt. Its a mixed breed no longer a thoroughbred. Anyway V8s are not the awnswer to all reliability problems the Camry and Accord are the rated at the top of Consumer Reports for reliability and they dont have a V8. They dont have a Rotary either but no V8. Also It really has to sting for you domestic lovers to see Toyota in the works of making there V8 powered Supra. Man there 6 was mopping domestic 8s I cant wait to see what there 8 does.
Also to my Hispanic friend in here I did not mean to offend you with my comment on Mexico. I simply wanted to point out that GM and other so called American car companys do not give a Rats *** about there fellow Americans that why they lay them off ond move the plants to Mexico and Canada for cheap labor. Yet the prices of there cars keep going up, even though the price of labor goes down. Also I do not know of any car company that originated in Mexico and was founded by a native mexican either. Nor do I know of them being famous for there engineering ability or there skill with electronics. I guess when I think of the worlds best enigineers of cars and electronics I think Japan then Germany and the U.S. Sorry.
Oh I know the 3rd Gens have a terrible reliability history and are popping motor well before there time, but my LS1 had a **** hair over 60k on her when she popped. I used to be diehard Domestic V8. I used to think they were bullit proof. Well they are not, and GM gave me a huge hassel getting it fixed and it costed me a lot of $$$. They did not stand behind there product for ****. Thats when I sold it shortly after for less than book value just to get rid of it. I have done research on the Imports through consumer reports and have 2 books on the RX7s and have been looking at the rotary websites planning my mods out. Anyway seeing the Passion Mazda had to bring the rotary to reality was amazing. Like they said other car companys dropped the idea of the rotary becasue they saw no quick profit from it. Mazda did it to basically make there mark not for profit. I am tired of domestics raking everyone over the coals. If you are looking for reliability get a Honda or Toyota. If you want a high revving damn close to exotic race car buy a REAL RX7. Do not make a X7. I think you V8 guys are pissed because you are finding it hard to get acceptance. THe American car crowd does not really care for ya cuz your V8 is in a Mazda. The RX guys except for the other V8 advocates dont care for ya because you took the easy lazy way out, and your car is no longer a "R"X7 without the rotary. I have done a V8 swap in my S15 Jimmy and it was a lot easier to get the HP that way then to build the V6 to do it. But then everyone started doing it and it lost its originality. Anyway you V8 ownwers should maybe make your own club. Also I know Iam just dumb *** but you guys if only these car manufacturers could see what you have done I bet they would put you in a enginering position. I mean they specifically said it the RX7 book when they where designing it that even a V6 would have thrown the balance of the car off. But now you guys have managed to put a V8 in there keep the natural balance of the car and make it more reliable. You guys are geinus I mean these guys that are mathmaticians and have studuied physics could not do this but somehow you shade tree mechanics and your popular mechanics tool set has managed to prove them wrong. Congratulations! I know Iam not smarter than the Guys who designed the car and anyone in here that is doing this V8 swap is not either. Yet you call me dumb LOL that is funny. The people that think the car is better balanced and handles just as good with there V8 Swap are stupid. If you guys were 1/2 as bright as you think you are a car Manufacturer would have employed you as a enigneer or somthing. You would not be on here writting posts about your V8s. I on the other hand do not think I am smarter than the engineers of the car and just want to make it the best handling and fastest car I can with the Rotary in it. I will use the means of Rotary speacialty shops such as RX7.com and Mazdatrix. Besides when you turbocharge any engine you shorten its life span. Turbocharge your V8 and then go rev it to 7-8000 RPMS and see how long that last with 12-16 lbs of boost. I would love to see a LS1 get turbo straped on run 12-16 LBS of boost at 8000 RPMS. It would not last 1 day. I will though however send Emails out to all the Manufactures and let them know how stupid they are when they built these cars and let thme know where they can find you guys to help them build the next car. Maybe there is still time to put a V8 in the RX8 before it get outta hand with the rotary! LOL later I have to come back because you guys are so funny!

BogusFile

Nobody is saying that V8 RX-7s handle better than Rotary powered RX-7s. We are saying that with a little common sense, and engineering that you can still make them handle great with a V8. How good a car handles has alot to do with opinion as well because all cars feel different. V8 RX-7s are definetely faster and more reliable. My car gets acceptance by everyone I know(no they are not rednecks), and most importantly I like it. I just call it an RX-7 because I don't know what else to call it. Frankly I don't really care. I would call it my hunk of steel and alluminum, but you guys wouldn't know what I am talking about, so for know it will remain my RX-7. Im not to worried about the new supra. Sure it will have a V8, but it will probably weigh as much as a tundra. The great thing about the older supras is that you can go BPU and have 400HP to the wheels. You are not going to see that dramatic of a difference when working with Naturally aspirated motors.