imatuner

i thought i would just post this to give a couple guys something to read and look at, some stats of the car for some that dont know 88 Rx7 with a 00 LS1 engine with the T-56 6 speed tranny, the engine is stock cept an intake pipe and exhaust

1st pull was measured with the hood up with the air intake charge of 65 degrees, 282.35 hp / 302.77 tq



2nd pull was done with the hood down and shop fan blowing in with the intake charge of 75 degrees 290.59 hp / 305.94 tq



3rd and final pull was with the hood shut and no fan blowing or other circulation going on and an intake temp charge at 110 degrees
266.17 hp / 299.41 tq

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drifter_sr

iTrader: (2)

ummm.. ok..

imatuner

the intake is stock and its not the LS6 intake like some later years have, its just the pipe, also its the 853 heads not the 241 which have better flow, and its right on par. the engine is from a 00 firebird ws6

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

shouldn't it still make 300whp?

kabooski

How do those T56's shift? Just needs a programmer and you be able to sqeeze some more power out it....

imatuner

if i had the later version of the LS1 ya it would of made more power, cause then i would have diff heads (241's) and intake (LS6) which are stock on later model of the LS1 which would be 02 series engine, also i think my exhaust is holding me back some, i seen 02 series LS1 with the heads and intake and headers and full exhaust do 330ish to 340ish HP, so its right about on for the numbers

for the T56 tranny me i love it, nice solid shift, with the 4.10 rear end from the turbo to it likes to drive around in 3rd and 4th gear pending on speed and its punchy in a fun way. a while back i had a previous gen RX7 N/A, it was fun dont get me wrong im not hating, Rotaries are fun lil engines and impressive for there size, but an RX-7 with a just seems more complete of a car, if i was in the Mazda Design team if i were to put the rotary in something i would of left them (smaller engines) in the smaller cars and put the bigger rotory engines in the RX7 to give it more torque cause to me this style car needs more and would make a real nice setup for driving, and since the 4 Rotars are expensive, this is a cheaper/easier/less maintenanced way of getting that setup.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

LOL! You are going to come here with some weak sauce numbers, then BASH on rotaries? Go to the "other engine conversions" forum for people that care...

psychotic7

UH OH, somebody got J Rat started lol. BTW J Rat is living proof that rotaries smash V8s and are more reliable. Good luck getting more than 400whp out of that LS before the block cracks and can the stock heads even flow that high? Needs headers, with ported heads, full exhaust and more to make 330whp??? That sucks, TII's just need a bigger turbo and a nice tune and rotaries can handle like 1000hp on stock block. I would LOVE to see a LS do that......you basically have to replace the whole engine to equal a rotaries performance capabilities. I hate V8s, theyre horrible at performance gains considering the size. Very inefficient engines. Unless its a Toyota V8 1UZ FTW!!! Now thats a REAL engine

imatuner

who said i was bashing rotaries, cause im not, second of all the numbers are stock numbers and im not bragging bout them just throwing them up to show where im starting at. if you dont like it dont post,

on the reliability issue rotories do have more problems, just look how many people post about how there car is almost always on repair, ya there probably are some that are good but how many are there really??? 400 hp isnt much at all, crap if if i were to turbo it on stock block with 5-7 lbs of boost id prob be 500-600hp but im not going to boost it. and i never said anything of full ported heads, if you read it im refering to the 241's which are stock on later model LS1, and honestly not saying its not possible to do but how many 1000HP Rotaries do you see on the street how bout 2000 HP rotaries not many if any but you see the 2000HP V8's cause u can actually do that, and honestly to say v8's are ineffiecient is just stupidity and u must never seen top fuel drag racing or even nascar then (since your going to extremes bout top of the line performance).

im not for this or for that engine, because i honestly like both engines and enjoyed both of them for what they are, but the functionality of v8 compared to a rotary engine, where i live is alot better by far, and for the places that i know of that have worked on rotaries say how pickey and unenjoyable they are to have cause of the inconsistentcies of the motor, i know lots of people that just get sick of em cause of the constant attention they need for maintenace.

psychotic7

Were just pissed someone else is ruining another RX-7 For heavens sake buy a non rotary powered car and ruin that. You just ripped out the heart of a once unique machine. good luck on your project BTW

imatuner

ruining an RX7 to me is rolling it or crashing it into a wall, not swapping out the engine, if you think the rotary is the only thing that makes the RX7 unique thats bogus, the car is unique for its weight and size and its suspension capabilities, but the main thing thats majorly diff between the 2 beside the engine design is that rotaries cant produce as much torque compared to the v8 cause that is what you need.

So basically what has happened to the car is i broadend its horizons by adding even more aftermarket support. i got all the mazda body and suspension mods/brakes and other stuff and American engine support which is endless

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Its a forum that is largely used for helping people repair their cars. Of course there are going to be a lot of people talking about how they are always fixing them.
The main cause of constant repairs is that most people with FC's have very little money to fix them, so they are constantly cheaping out. These cars are also 20+ years old. Show me a car of that age that doesn't have problems. ESPECIALLY American cars.
Finally, VERY few of the problems on this board are actually problems related to the rotary engine. Most of the problems can actually be traced back to either owner stupidity or wiring problems.

My engine lasted 18 years and 215,000 miles, and the only reason it died was because it had been heavily raced. How many piston engines can say that?

somebody5788

Good post! I don't see any other reason to own an FC other then the rotary. I mean ya I do like how they look but the suspension is a little out dated and there honestly a bit overweight for there size. My 1999 Audi A4 on a 200 set of springs can probably out handle an RX-7 w/ just springs and the Audi weighs 3450 lbs w/ me in it. Now the RX-7 is a much better plat form to modify for track then the Audi because of its 50/50 weight ratio and rwd. I just think theres a lot of reasons to keep an FC a rotary car.

imatuner

one thing i can say is you wont understand it til you drive one, and you need to look at torque cause that is what you want, and torque is what any smaller engine will suffer from such as 4 cyl and yes even the rotary.

also piston engines can last that long as well, look at Diesels in semi's and trucks most last 500K-1M miles on them and ive seen v8s in the 200K and even some
4cyl in the mid 400k

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I am so sick of the torque argument... Ive got approximately 400 ft/lbs to play with in my little rotary.

You are acting like you invented the V8 swap, but you didnt, and most people like you do V8 swaps because you lack the knowledge it takes to keep an rotary alive and healthy at higher horse power levels. Either way we dont go to the other rotary conversions section and bash on their power plants so what makes you think you can come here and insult ours?

psychotic7

I bet you wont race J Rat! yea....400k on an American 4 banger is BS, maybe on the chasis. Lets see the Dodge Neon even the SRT was a waste haha not even a 13second car at 16lbs of boost, Cavalier a pos, Cobalts are gay. Now the V8s....sub 20mpg. Ford 5.0 was the biggest heap in existence haha blocks crack like eggs, Chevy 350, to compete doesnt stay a 350...more like a 383 or more. i can go on and on about the POS motors. in the end the RX7 is the ONLY production rotary sports car so how is that not unique enough for you. The Diesel point you made is just plumb dumb, it doesnt operate or use the same crappy fuel a regular piston engine uses hence the reason it lasts longer.....not the same by no means. Torque is highlt overrated dude....thats why you see Honda Civics with stock H22s, B18s, B20s and especially the K20 smash on V8s all day. Go figure, a Jap 4 banger is faster than American Muscle hehe thats great

imatuner

ya you do have bout 400 TQ and thats a nice number and respectable but if it was a LS under that hood you would prob have bout 550-560TQ,,, and ya i do lack the rotary knowledge which is no biggie to me and this is not a rotary section its a dyno and timeslip section and that is why i posted it here, now if it said rotary dyno and timeslips only i wouldnt of posted it here, and im not arguing or bashing nothing y cant you get that through your head. and you saying the comment that im acting like i invented the V8 swap is just lame

Did i ever limit the piston engine convo to just american motors no im refering to piston motors overall, oh just to let you know the 400k car was a honda civic. I do agree with you on them cars as im not a fan of them. Your sub 20 MPG estimate is just dumb do some reasearch on that buddy and get your head right cause this is a car not a full blown 1 ton truck. The newer style v8's get 22-30MPG. Infact my buddy got and avg of 27 in his vette on a roadtrip, and also me and fellow member went to a show and was on the road for 5 hours and i got better gas mileage than his FD. I even let him drive it and he even thought it had lot more torque than his FD and was alot smoother driving, also on that trip my other buddy that was driving a 80s burban that had a stock 350 towing another car on a trailer got 16 MPG.
So, tell me how torque is overrated with no torque you have no movement HP and TQ work together. The main reason you see honda's going so quick is cause they dont weigh much (which is the biggest benefit) they weigh anywhere from 2200-2500 full interior as to what american V8 cars do. Avg vettes weigh in at 3200 to 3300LBS, camoros/firebirds 3400-3500 which is why u see alot of RX7 and 240's getting the swaps and with this engine my Rx weighs 2800 full fluids and interior and still have the weight ratio.

Like i mentioned before i posted this info to show where im starting at and will continue to post updates when they come.

As for the convo with you guys im done cause all u want to do is to debate Rotary VS Piston. Personally its just a lame debate cause its just going to go back and forth and nothing is going to change my mind on my build nor nothing going to change yours. So if you want to remain butthurt cause there is a V8 in my RX7 go ahead, but to tell ya the truth its no skin off my back what you think of it.

BASTARD

iTrader: (4)

where are the pictures of this hack job

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Bye!!

imatuner

somebody5788

Poor car another RX-7 bites the dust...

blacksi

Yeah, but notice his torque happens the instant the pedal is dropped. This makes for a much more powerfull feeling when driving the car.

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

hahah, man you guys are funny.

The LS will be evenly priced with a decent 13bt pushing the same numbers. The only difference is that the LS is underworked while you've pushed more through the 13bt to get to the stock LS numbers.

One thing I've learned over the years of owning a rotary is that RELIABILITY is what I like.
Yes, a rotary can be reliable. Ask rat how much he dropped to get a reliable one?
Can a LS be reliable at the same numbers? hmm.... maybe even for cheaper?


haha, now that I've stoked the fire.

I'd like to see a race between Rat and Jay(local guy w/ LSx turbo FC).

as of now. My next motor will be chevy based unless my buddy loses a bet to me and I get his S5 SP AZ Rotary Rocket motor.

g14novak

iTrader: (1)

Ok, congrats, you now have 550-600 ft/lbs of torque. Your fun little car is now no longer drivable in rain, snow, or anything with a relatively wet ground at this point. You seem to think that since you have all this magical torque, your piston motor is better than the rotary.

If you wanted something with a V8, maybe you should have bought a mustang.

And my A$$ your buddy got 27mpg in his vette on a roadtrip. From the factory, their window sticker for gas mileage is only 26 and those things are never right. I'm willing to bet 21mpg highway tops.

Congrats on getting better gas mileage than a FD. You have a 300hp engine in a 2400lb chassis. Of course its going to get good gas mileage. You ever heard of the civette? Google it some time, he gets good mileage because he has a lighter body too. The FD body weighs more than a FC body. No crap its gonna get better mileage.

And your buddy said that your 350 is smoother than his REW? LOL! Better tell him he spun a bearing. Its physically impossible for something that moves to the end of a combustion chamber, only to come all the way back just to do it again, is smoother than a rotary, something that spins in circles around the E-shaft, or as you would call it, the crankshaft.

For the money you spent BUYING that LS1 thats in there, you could have had a 13bt built, ported, and installed in your car. And still had extra cash for a boost controller or a gift for your girlfriend/boyfriend.

Next time you want to perform a V8 swap, go pull a escort or something out of the junkyard. Be origional. Something that you can buy the kit to install it is no fun to build. You should have taken the 8k$+ that you invested in this swap and put it into a rotary. More power is what you want right? You've been stating that this thread is to show where your "starting at". For the money invested, instead of looking at that chart you have up, you could be looking at this.

raphaelblackaf.pdf

Digi7ech

iTrader: (1)

$2-4k - Rebuilt motor with large street port
$1000 -EMS
$500 -Injectors
$1000 turbo/maybe manifold
==300+ reliable hp.
---------------------------------------------------------------
$2-3K LS1
$1500 T56 tranny
$1k conversion parts
== 300 reliable Hp.

It's all in what you do and what you consider reliable.
:P