Pettit Racing Trak Pro Coilover Kit
11-30-10, 05:11 PM
#251
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Either that or they let Pettit racing do the development of the product and then sold it out from underneath them. The competition series used to have different spring rates at 15/10 kg. Only recently are they 15/12.
11-30-10, 05:48 PM
#252
I've heard many times though that Chinese/Tiawanese companies will do this though—develop a product to your spec, and then sell it out from under you for less. Not sure what the development cycle was, or what if any input Pettit had, but if I were Cam I'd be a little pissed at my supplier.
This company specializes in dealing with vendors for bulk sale. There gonna try to sell to as many companies as possible. Not just Pettit! Only way to avoid this kinda of thing is to make your own stuff in-house and not just mark-up and sell other products. It's just like the MSD ignition brand. They would never make any money if they only supplied to SummitRacing.
11-30-10, 06:00 PM
#253
According to what's written before you can get Stage 3s with 10/8 springs. And again from what has been written so far the difference between the two is minimal if any. If you're not comfortable just pay $50 and get stage 3s with softer springs or as is.
11-30-10, 06:28 PM
#254
This company specializes in dealing with vendors for bulk sale. There gonna try to sell to as many companies as possible. Not just Pettit! Only way to avoid this kinda of thing is to make your own stuff in-house and not just mark-up and sell other products. It's just like the MSD ignition brand. They would never make any money if they only supplied to SummitRacing.
These guys are not Ohlins or MSD, they are not in high demand. I don't think anyone here even has a friend who has a friend who has these shocks. Assuming these are the exact same shocks (still not 100% proven since Pettit did not comment), if Pettit is putting an effort to bring these products up for RX7 community they should not undercut Pettit. They have shocks for many other makes and models they should put their effort into finding other respectable vendors in other communities and sell their products through them.
This company or any company in similar position should think hard before establishing a marketing strategy. I doubt most of these asian companies have a marketing strategy or even know the definition of the term.
11-30-10, 07:21 PM
#255
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12-01-10, 09:07 AM
#257
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Well they aren't meant to be lighter than stock, they are meant to be lighter than they would be if they were made out of steel! These are still oversized shocks with a larger diameter, greater strength, etc. Depending on the manufacturer of the spring you might be able to switch out for a Swift spring and save a pound or so. The springs look like they have quite a few coils, but at least their not progressive. Swift has a thing where they talk about the angle of the coils and decreasing the coil count to reduce weight.
But I wouldn't be surprised if these actually weigh more than stock. Just because the stock ones aren't going to be nearly as beefy.
But I wouldn't be surprised if these actually weigh more than stock. Just because the stock ones aren't going to be nearly as beefy.
12-01-10, 09:32 AM
#258
Re: Weight.
For what it's worth, I just bought a set of JRZ race shocks that are all alluminum. They are very light, but ultimately do have remote canisters that weight something, stainless lines, and of course 8" 700/500 lbs. springs. Actually, it's the spring that are the majority of the weight, and considerably more for the 700# than the 500#, or the little 6" 550# I have laying around. There's only so much you can do about that, higher stiffness springs mean thicker steel coils and more weight than the puny little stock coils.
Ultimately, as somebody said above, this company had ZERO reputation or marketing/distribution presence in the U.S. or in the FD market. The only reason anybody would really cxonsider them is (now) knowing that they are an unbranded version of what Pettit sells. It's Pettit's reputation, and qualifications to test/verify the performance and quality, and U.S. market presence that ultimately made these things saleable... whether or not Pettit actually contributed anything to change the design, so I do think it a bit unethical for them to now sell them out from under them at a discount based on the reputation Pettit lent to the product.
There are plenty of manufacturers who won't sell to you directly and tell you to call their dealers, because those dealers are a part of their supply chain and marketing.
For what it's worth, I just bought a set of JRZ race shocks that are all alluminum. They are very light, but ultimately do have remote canisters that weight something, stainless lines, and of course 8" 700/500 lbs. springs. Actually, it's the spring that are the majority of the weight, and considerably more for the 700# than the 500#, or the little 6" 550# I have laying around. There's only so much you can do about that, higher stiffness springs mean thicker steel coils and more weight than the puny little stock coils.
Ultimately, as somebody said above, this company had ZERO reputation or marketing/distribution presence in the U.S. or in the FD market. The only reason anybody would really cxonsider them is (now) knowing that they are an unbranded version of what Pettit sells. It's Pettit's reputation, and qualifications to test/verify the performance and quality, and U.S. market presence that ultimately made these things saleable... whether or not Pettit actually contributed anything to change the design, so I do think it a bit unethical for them to now sell them out from under them at a discount based on the reputation Pettit lent to the product.
There are plenty of manufacturers who won't sell to you directly and tell you to call their dealers, because those dealers are a part of their supply chain and marketing.
12-01-10, 09:37 AM
#259
From Pettit website:
"All Stages use lightweight billet aluminum for weight savings and CNC machining for precision fit of the main body, threaded adjustment tubes, spring seats and lock nuts as well as the position adjuster locks, Trak Pro Kits are lighter, operate cooler and provide more consistent damping than many popular brands."
Ok, this doesn't say lighter then stock but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere something like some coilovers being lighter then strut/spring combo. Anyway best way to find out is if someone tells us the exact weight of stock shocks and springs.
"All Stages use lightweight billet aluminum for weight savings and CNC machining for precision fit of the main body, threaded adjustment tubes, spring seats and lock nuts as well as the position adjuster locks, Trak Pro Kits are lighter, operate cooler and provide more consistent damping than many popular brands."
Ok, this doesn't say lighter then stock but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere something like some coilovers being lighter then strut/spring combo. Anyway best way to find out is if someone tells us the exact weight of stock shocks and springs.
12-01-10, 10:14 AM
#260
All a "coilover" is really is a shock/spring combo... the spring weight contributing a significant portion. You'd want to compare like set ups, i.e.: say a Koni with ground control and similar length 15/12 springs... but I think what they say is accurate, an AL-bodied setup is going to be lighter than a steel-bodied version of a similar config.
12-01-10, 08:24 PM
#262
Yes I can because every company has to start somewhere. It took years for the MSD brand to become a household name. Who's to say this same company can't do the same? What you think Pettit Racing should be the only vendor selling this product that they dont even manufacture? I'm sure there are hand full of other vendors here on this forum that feel otherwise. I'm also pretty sure Cam doesn't have an exclusive rights contract somewhere allowing him to be the ONLY Rx7 vendor for these products. When your in the manufacturing business, it's to your benefit to have as many vendors selling your product as possible. Loyalty will bankrupt your company if your not selling enough of your product to cover all your expenses. It's simple economics my friend!
12-02-10, 04:52 AM
#263
Yes I can because every company has to start somewhere. It took years for the MSD brand to become a household name. Who's to say this same company can't do the same? What you think Pettit Racing should be the only vendor selling this product that they dont even manufacture? I'm sure there are hand full of other vendors here on this forum that feel otherwise. I'm also pretty sure Cam doesn't have an exclusive rights contract somewhere allowing him to be the ONLY Rx7 vendor for these products. When your in the manufacturing business, it's to your benefit to have as many vendors selling your product as possible. Loyalty will bankrupt your company if your not selling enough of your product to cover all your expenses. It's simple economics my friend!
Eitherway you can't compare Iasati to MSD (neither Pettit to Summit) and it's not relevant what Iasati can become. The discussion here is their ethics and marketing strategy. I can tell you many reasons why their strategy is wrong. And the way they are doing business they'll be lucky to end up in ebay let alone MSDlike success. Who manufactures the products is also irrelevant. In my company I manufacture some products to vendors specs and even sometimes label them as they want. I know who they sell it to and I know they can't beat my price since I'm the manufacturer but I don't try to sell it to their customers behind their back. Just not ethical!
What you are right about is that we don't know what kind of agreement Pettit has with them. Maybe it was a one of deal and they do not care but I highly doubt it as they are trying to establish a range of products called TrakPro which started with coilovers then continued with brake kits.
I am not against selling a product through different vendors but a vendor in this context is not just anyone who can send an email
Jason (RX7store) is a vendor, RX7.com is a vendor etc. Now what would they do if Garrett sold GT35R directly to their customers for $500 when vendors have the product on sale for $1500? They would send their sincere FU wishes to Garrett, and would not sell Garrett products anymore since it's not profitable anymore. This is what's happening or what could happen here.
I can go on about after sales support, 2nd hand value etc. but I think I made my point clear. Apologies to everyone else for long OT discussion.
12-02-10, 10:42 AM
#264
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Well I understand the whole supply and demand thing but it seems regardless there is not much demand for a car which is no longer in production and most of them have been crashed. How many FD's exist in the world still and how many are looking for sub $2,000 suspension kits?
I've always been of the street smart philosophy where you avoid the guy who is loud advertising his product on the street and you look for the guy who is standing there not saying anything. You know what he has is good because he doesn't have to advertise. This seems to be the case with Iasati. They aren't worried about advertising and are more worried about the kind of hype they can generate through word of mouth. I don't fully understand their marketing tactic either and I'm not sure it's the best, but they have the same thing for less and their product seems to be the best in the FD market. For something German I might go with JIC-Magic/Cross or another manufacturer I know but I'm going with Iasati this time especially because I'm in Japan and it'll be quicker and cheaper to do shipping.
I've always been of the street smart philosophy where you avoid the guy who is loud advertising his product on the street and you look for the guy who is standing there not saying anything. You know what he has is good because he doesn't have to advertise. This seems to be the case with Iasati. They aren't worried about advertising and are more worried about the kind of hype they can generate through word of mouth. I don't fully understand their marketing tactic either and I'm not sure it's the best, but they have the same thing for less and their product seems to be the best in the FD market. For something German I might go with JIC-Magic/Cross or another manufacturer I know but I'm going with Iasati this time especially because I'm in Japan and it'll be quicker and cheaper to do shipping.
12-02-10, 12:22 PM
#265
Well I understand the whole supply and demand thing but it seems regardless there is not much demand for a car which is no longer in production and most of them have been crashed. How many FD's exist in the world still and how many are looking for sub $2,000 suspension kits?
I've always been of the street smart philosophy where you avoid the guy who is loud advertising his product on the street and you look for the guy who is standing there not saying anything. You know what he has is good because he doesn't have to advertise. This seems to be the case with Iasati. They aren't worried about advertising and are more worried about the kind of hype they can generate through word of mouth. I don't fully understand their marketing tactic either and I'm not sure it's the best, but they have the same thing for less and their product seems to be the best in the FD market. For something German I might go with JIC-Magic/Cross or another manufacturer I know but I'm going with Iasati this time especially because I'm in Japan and it'll be quicker and cheaper to do shipping.
I've always been of the street smart philosophy where you avoid the guy who is loud advertising his product on the street and you look for the guy who is standing there not saying anything. You know what he has is good because he doesn't have to advertise. This seems to be the case with Iasati. They aren't worried about advertising and are more worried about the kind of hype they can generate through word of mouth. I don't fully understand their marketing tactic either and I'm not sure it's the best, but they have the same thing for less and their product seems to be the best in the FD market. For something German I might go with JIC-Magic/Cross or another manufacturer I know but I'm going with Iasati this time especially because I'm in Japan and it'll be quicker and cheaper to do shipping.
Btw if Iasati's owner read your post he'd give you a free set and a big hug. You were few sentences away from Iasati running to the rescue and saving the girl from the bad guys in marketplace because he's the quiet and confident guy and has a lot of kung-fu moves as well j/k
12-02-10, 12:29 PM
#266
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There's no reason to be a smart *** now. I'm just not a rich man and I worked my way up from the VERY VERY bottom. So what I understand most is how to transact business on the street with the likes of shady individuals. I'm not educated in real business, marketing or any of that.
When I say I'm a poor man I really mean that I was sitting under a bridge in Japan drinking with the hobos because I feel more comfortable there than in a bar and yes I do have a drinking problem. I'm one fucked up individual, there's no denying it. The only thing that I get sober for is racing but in between I'm totally drunk off my *** even at work.
When I say I'm a poor man I really mean that I was sitting under a bridge in Japan drinking with the hobos because I feel more comfortable there than in a bar and yes I do have a drinking problem. I'm one fucked up individual, there's no denying it. The only thing that I get sober for is racing but in between I'm totally drunk off my *** even at work.
12-02-10, 12:43 PM
#267
There's no reason to be a smart *** now. I'm just not a rich man and I worked my way up from the VERY VERY bottom. So what I understand most is how to transact business on the street with the likes of shady individuals. I'm not educated in real business, marketing or any of that.
When I say I'm a poor man I really mean that I was sitting under a bridge in Japan drinking with the hobos because I feel more comfortable there than in a bar and yes I do have a drinking problem. I'm one fucked up individual, there's no denying it. The only thing that I get sober for is racing but in between I'm totally drunk off my *** even at work.
When I say I'm a poor man I really mean that I was sitting under a bridge in Japan drinking with the hobos because I feel more comfortable there than in a bar and yes I do have a drinking problem. I'm one fucked up individual, there's no denying it. The only thing that I get sober for is racing but in between I'm totally drunk off my *** even at work.
12-02-10, 11:04 PM
#272
I had to give this part a seperate quote cause it's totally wrong. The more the better model is not applicable to all distribution models and does NOT guarantee sale of more products as exclusivity and pricing of a product is just as important as well as it's perceived quality. It's not simple economics my friend and shows that you're not really well informed in this.
I can go on about after sales support, 2nd hand value etc. but I think I made my point clear. Apologies to everyone else for long OT discussion.
I can go on about after sales support, 2nd hand value etc. but I think I made my point clear. Apologies to everyone else for long OT discussion.
Please don't put words in my mouth to make your point look better. Did I ever say anything about ALL other distribution models or their processes? I'm not talking about McDonald's or General Motors here (two totally different companies). You can start generalizing about all other manufactures and their process all you want. My point here has only been about this particular companies product and nothing else. I may not have your experience but I do know that if they only made these coilovers available to Pettit Racing, they would be losing a ton of money. The economics of this are that simple.
12-02-10, 11:11 PM
#273
It's not as cookie cutter as you think. The weights can be similar between an LS1 and fully loaded twin turbo 13b. But the positions of the weight are totally different. LS1 has more weight higher in the engine bay and the engine sits further forward over the rack. Handling will change some but nothing serious for us to cause a huge debate about it.
12-03-10, 02:12 AM
#274
Please don't put words in my mouth to make your point look better. Did I ever say anything about ALL other distribution models or their processes? I'm not talking about McDonald's or General Motors here (two totally different companies). You can start generalizing about all other manufactures and their process all you want. My point here has only been about this particular companies product and nothing else. I may not have your experience but I do know that if they only made these coilovers available to Pettit Racing, they would be losing a ton of money. The economics of this are that simple.
12-03-10, 11:02 AM
#275
It's not as cookie cutter as you think. The weights can be similar between an LS1 and fully loaded twin turbo 13b. But the positions of the weight are totally different. LS1 has more weight higher in the engine bay and the engine sits further forward over the rack. Handling will change some but nothing serious for us to cause a huge debate about it.