RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

well im sure this has been asked before, but ill be a bother and ask it again. its time ot change my pads, and i wanted to hear some recomendations for compounds. the car is mainly a weekend car, (seeing some commute time every once in awhile)... but mainly i use it for some serious mountain driving.

ive been overheating my calipers recently (to the point where i loose brakes from red glowing rotors)... now i understand that at those temps no compound can brake properly.... but does a pad that would wear down my rotor faster mean that i would generate LESS heat then say a more rotor friendly pad.

anyway... what pads would you guys recomend and why for street use, and mountain driving? i have stock pads as of now, and i believe the overheating rotors are due to me having to get on those pads harder for longer to achieve enough braking.... maybe a pad that bites better initially will let me get off the brakes sooner.

(as a side note, ive used the hawk hp+'s on my miata for a few years now. they're *alright* but dust like HELL and have to be warmed up a bit before they get doing anything (not the best for a long highway commute if i have to quickly get on the brakes if theyre cold). some people on this forum have recomended carbotech, but im not sure which pad compound would be the propper one. adn if there are any others you guys like let me know. -heath

Efini_7

iTrader: (1)

Personally i've always put Hawk HPS pads in all my cars and absolutely love em. Even took the FD to a track in the Fall with the HPS and they actually worked alright for about 20 minutes before they started fading (as in "no, i'm not stopping here...let's just not take the next turn" fading ). Very linear pad with decent bite, but doesn't have the initial bite that the HP+'s do (i just put a set of those on my FD yesterday 'cause i'm going to the track again this weekend). The HPS's don't dust very much, especially for a performance pad, and i've never experienced any fading with them on the street.

I just ordered a set of Carbotech's last month, but after talking to a few people who had problems with them, decided to give the HP+ a try first. If they don't cut it for the track then i'll put in the Carbotech XP8's i bought (1400 degree pad). I've never tried it, but for your application i'd give the Carbotech Panther Plus a try. Supposed to handle higher temps than the HPS without destroying rotors. That's just my .02c.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

http://dpeweb.com/ProductsList.aspx?...oductTypeID=14

Bobcats

Natey

iTrader: (19)

A few friends and I have a little touge club in the Bay Area. We go up about once a week in the winter, twice in the summer. Lot'sa mountains around here.

I put a set of Porterfield pads on my FC recently and they've made a nice difference over Axxis ultimate pads. They never fade and have plenty of bite from the beginning of the drive to the bottom of the mountain.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

hey natey. good to hear from you, and hope to see you tomorow for the run. keep me updated on when and where we're meeting up. BTW which porterfield pads are you using? -heath

Efini_7

iTrader: (1)

I've heard good things about the Porterfields as well.

I've also heard that the Bobcats are a great autocross pad, but are about the same as the Hawk HPS for track events...they'll just overheat from sustained high temps. But then again, for anything short of track use (like mountain driving) they might be ideal. But i'd still step up to the Panther Plus. It's a new compound that's supposed to have the same noise and rotor wear characteristics, but hold up to higher temps with less fade. Go visit their website if you want more info or comparison.

fd_neal

iTrader: (4)

This is from experiance solo2 driving an AWD talon... not quite the brakes the FD has but a good bit of experiance with some of the same pad compounds.

Stock pads - poor bite, ok power, dies with any heat... really everything you would expect and nothing worth talking about.

Hawk HPS - decent all around pad, stops you when you want. Good with any heat ive been able to give it.

Hawk HP+ - my pad of choice. Unreal initial bite and a bit better overall performance than the HPS. overly dusty is the only downfall, IMO they stop just fine when ice cold, they are on the talon year round and daily driven and ive had no cpmplaints even at -20* temps

Carbotech Bobcats - I like these, they are definatly not as rotor friendly as the hawks nor do they have the initial bite but they feel like they have a bit better overall grab than the HP+. And almost dust free. They are definatly more money than the hawks and they do eat rotors despite their claims, those are the reasons why i wouldnt call them my choice pad.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

yeah i do like the initial bite of the HP+'s ... but they dust so much it looks like i spraypainted my wheels black.

how do the carbotech bobcats compare to the HP+ for high temp operation. also how do they compare to the HP+ for cold temp operation (as in before your rotors are warmed up). the HP+'s arent so good when it comes to cold stops... but once theyre warm they are easy to modulate and have tons of grip. i dont think there is much i can do about overheating the rotors besides getting a bigger brake kit. too bad we cant get ceramic brakes for the FD

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

For the FD stock calipers, there is no such thing as a dual pad (street/track). The Bobcats are a street pad, the XP8's are a track pad (entry level track pad that is). If you run the XP8's on the street, they will stop you, but not well and will squeal. For just street driving, you most likely won't heat them up enough to stop making noise.

Basically, any pad made to operate at higher temps is going to be crap at lower temps. If you need a track pad, use a track pad for the track; but switch back to a street pad for the street.

I would not use Hawk pads even if someone was paying me to do so.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i know we're dealing with 2 different animals here, but i use Hawk HP+ on my Rx-7 and i absolutely love them. i use Porterfield RS4 on my MR2 Turbo and i'm less than impressed. i guess they're okay, but they simply do not seem to perform like the Hawk HP+. if you're going to get Porterfields, i'd say look for a slightly more aggressive pad than the RS4. i wish the Hawks were available for my MR2 Turbo, but they're not.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i would just like to add ...

you should probably supplement your pad choice with a shrewd tire choice and brake fluid.

fd_neal

iTrader: (4)

VERY curious why you say this???




Im not sure about very high (road race) temps but for anything street or solo2 they are very similar. Like i said in my last post id give initial bite to the HP+ and overall grip to the bobcats (but its very close). Also id say the bobcats need one good stomp on the brakes to get heat where ive been fine with dead cold HP+'s (but i seem to be the only one, or maybe it was just the heavy weight of the talon) Both are great pads tho, and overall very similar. For what its worth to me i like the bite and price of the hawks.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

If you're talking about very aggressive mountain driving that is overcoming true performance street pads, you might could step up to N-Tech's lapping day compound. It's a mild track pad, but it's very streetable with great cold performance and pretty darn good hot performance.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Hawk pads dust more than any other pad and their dust can be (and most of the time is) corrosive. It has ruined the finish on many rims that I've seen and it's unnecessary (I've seen their track pads eat paint on a car). There are plenty of pads out there which are better, dust less, and their dust is not corrosive. Hawk pads are just cheap and that's there only good attribute.

Valkyrie

What about the carbon/kevlars from Mazdatrix?

Anyone use the street or race compounds?

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

hmm this might be a good choice... ill have to look into this one. btw... does anyone know how those pads compare to the bobcats??

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

yes they do. ive had similar experiences with runing the finish on my rims. thats the one thing i cant stand about the hawks.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

im curious as well.... anyone have info on these pads and how they compare to the previously listed ones?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The Bobcats are strickly a street/auto-x pad. The N-Tech Lapping Day pads are a track pad. I use the N-Tech's on my FD:

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/FD...0040911_04.jpg

In my experience, the Lapping Day pads don't grip for nothing when cold (I drive to the track with them installed). I wouldn't recommend them for the street. Apparently others have had better success with them for cold operation than I have but my recommendation would still be to use those for track only.

RotorMotor

iTrader: (5)

lookin good mahjik! what did you stuff in your grill? .... and is it removable? im sure its for cooling purposes. thanks for the advice. im going with the bobcats for now, and ill report back. BTW which pads are you using when your NOT at the track? the bobcats? -heath

fd_neal

iTrader: (4)

I really expect that youll be satisfied with the bobcats. I cant see any mountain driving over heating them, I mean unless your idea of mountain drives is a little more hardcore than mine, but i think were probably on the same page when it comes to a fun cruise in the mountains.


EDIT: I also agree to a point about the hawks being too dusty, the HP+'s at least. they havent destroyed the finish on my wheels but the talon runs on stock rims daily, and my track rims get properly cleaned after each event. This is the reason i went with the HPS on the 7, nice wheels for the street and stock for the track... Sure there are better pads than the HPS that also have minimal dust, but they arent much better IMO and cost me nearly 3 times as much by the time i get them over the boarder.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that's the N-Tech Shark mod:
http://www.ntechengineering.com/inde...d=8&model_id=2

It really helps to open up the front of the car for cooling on the track.

I'm currently using the Bonez Stage I pads for the street. The Bobcats weren't around when I bought the Bonez pads a about 2 years ago (my car doesn't see much street action so street pads last forever). When the Bonez do wear out, I'll be using the Bobcats. I also plan to run them on my M3.

The guys at the DPE web site use Carbotech pads on all their cars (for street and track).

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

You are correct, they aren't great COLD... but i'd call "good" relative because the FD stops so well, i think they're adequete for the street. I actually don't think you need much of a pad for the street, and don't know why people buy "sticky" street pads for cruisin' around the burbs. I buy the street pad that makes the least dust!

On the issue of "cold", I'd call cold "the first hard stop in a while".... but the thing with the lapping days is, you really only need one good stop, and they're at reasonable working temp... that's the great thing about them. If you run in events where their are alot of slower cars that you're stuck behind alot, they're great compared to say a PFC 93 that doen't work for crap unless you're on it lap after lap.

For hard core mountain driving, you'll get enough heat in them, and use them often enough to keep them from being cold.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

For me, it would take me about 4-5 turns on the warm up lap to get them up to temp for stopping power. On colder track days I would need about a full lap. Driving on the highway was just flat out dangerous any time I needed to slow down (or stop as the highway to the track I frequent is a toll highway). It could be that Nick sent me the Competition compound instead of the Lapping Day, but I just know that what I have takes some real heat to start grabbing and I wouldn't recommend them on the street from my experience.

This is on stock calipers as well.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

That's interesting, because these perform virtually like a stock pad for me... that's what I like about them... heck i've driven home on the 4.5 hours from VIR pulling my track trailer, and forgot they were on there!