R85 installed, pics...
02-25-05, 01:03 AM
#151
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Originally Posted by rotor_dee
Max that is a excellent example of how a R85 should be installed. Do you mind if I put it on my web site.
Demetrios
Demetrios
Go for it.-Max
02-25-05, 01:17 AM
#152
WWFSMD
Thread Starter
On the oil temps issue, I checked the hose routing and everything looks right. The temp sensor is on the hose that feeds the engine (after the coolers), which is what I expected. However, the sensor is in a T fitting that sits right next to the engine. I might be getting some engine heat into the fitting that is throwing off the temp readings. I didn't get a good "are the oil coolers hot?" test, but they were both a little warm after the car cooled down for a while -- I'm not really sure if they were flowing oil or not yet, though. I will check the temp of the coolers (quick hand test) next time I take the car out. At this moment, I think it must be either a dead thermostat or the engine-heat-soaking-into-my-temp-sensor-T issue.
I installed the GM 3-bar MAP sensor tonight. That is an easy job if anyone else is thinking about it but worried that it will be difficult. It isn't difficult -- it's easy as pie.
I also adjusted one of the pipes so that the hood prop rod would snap into the holder and the hood would close flush. It's perfect now (no contact on the prop rod when it is snapped into place, and the hood shuts easily with no contact). My pipes on my old RX6 turbo setup would rub the hood a bit -- I am so glad that everything fits without rubbing now.
I am still getting used to the clutch (Exedy Hyper Single -- sprung puck disc). It isn't as immediately streetable as I was hoping for, but I think it will be manageable once I develop some finesse at getting off the line smoothly. I've had a lot of lousy starts so far as I try to granny the car around. It is pretty easy to engage for reverse at least, and it is possible to get a reasonably smooth launch going forward -- I'm just out of practice driving the car and it takes more concentration than an organic disc. I am sure I will get the hang of it, and it will probably be easier when I am ready to use a little more throttle once it engages. In the meantime, though, I look like an idiot trying to drive it.
The worst part was that when I first drove the car home from the shop, I had created a lean spot in the fuel map from about 1000-1800 RPM when I was trying to lean out the idle. The MAP sensor hose wasn't connected yet, so I ended up taking fuel out of the map around 0psi. Of course, that is right where you are if you are trying to get a gingerly start off the line. Combine that with the puck clutch (which dropped me right into my lean spot when the clutch grabs) and it made for some pretty embarassing driving. I fixed the map now and it is much better.
-Max
I installed the GM 3-bar MAP sensor tonight. That is an easy job if anyone else is thinking about it but worried that it will be difficult. It isn't difficult -- it's easy as pie.
I also adjusted one of the pipes so that the hood prop rod would snap into the holder and the hood would close flush. It's perfect now (no contact on the prop rod when it is snapped into place, and the hood shuts easily with no contact). My pipes on my old RX6 turbo setup would rub the hood a bit -- I am so glad that everything fits without rubbing now.
I am still getting used to the clutch (Exedy Hyper Single -- sprung puck disc). It isn't as immediately streetable as I was hoping for, but I think it will be manageable once I develop some finesse at getting off the line smoothly. I've had a lot of lousy starts so far as I try to granny the car around. It is pretty easy to engage for reverse at least, and it is possible to get a reasonably smooth launch going forward -- I'm just out of practice driving the car and it takes more concentration than an organic disc. I am sure I will get the hang of it, and it will probably be easier when I am ready to use a little more throttle once it engages. In the meantime, though, I look like an idiot trying to drive it.
The worst part was that when I first drove the car home from the shop, I had created a lean spot in the fuel map from about 1000-1800 RPM when I was trying to lean out the idle. The MAP sensor hose wasn't connected yet, so I ended up taking fuel out of the map around 0psi. Of course, that is right where you are if you are trying to get a gingerly start off the line. Combine that with the puck clutch (which dropped me right into my lean spot when the clutch grabs) and it made for some pretty embarassing driving.
I fixed the map now and it is much better.-Max
02-25-05, 01:50 AM
#154
WWFSMD
Thread Starter
I got the 3- bar MAP sensor and a 3-conductor weatherpack connector (wires already attached to connector, comes with crimp-style butt connectors for the other ends of the wires) that fits the MAP sensor after you cut a few slots in two of the connector barrels. It's an easy job with a knife.
I got both pieces from http://gmpartsdirect.com/ -- they had good prices on the components but they have high shipping and handling costs. It was still a decent deal overall. I ordered a long time ago before the parts were superceded (see below). I don't remember how much I paid, but I think the sensor was about $50 and the connector was $15. The part numbers are:
16040749 MAP sensor -- superceded by part # 12223861 (not sure if this is 3 bar or not -- might be good to check around before ordering, though I expect that it would be 3 bar just like the old part)
12085502 connector -- superceded by 15305891
-Max
I got both pieces from http://gmpartsdirect.com/ -- they had good prices on the components but they have high shipping and handling costs. It was still a decent deal overall. I ordered a long time ago before the parts were superceded (see below). I don't remember how much I paid, but I think the sensor was about $50 and the connector was $15. The part numbers are:
16040749 MAP sensor -- superceded by part # 12223861 (not sure if this is 3 bar or not -- might be good to check around before ordering, though I expect that it would be 3 bar just like the old part)
12085502 connector -- superceded by 15305891
-Max
02-26-05, 01:03 AM
#155
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Thread Starter
I did a nice long drive to make sure the oil was hot enough to open the thermostat (180 +/- 10F is the temp rating) and then got out and felt the coolers to see if I was getting oil through them. They were cold, which tells me the thermostat isn't closing. The Mocal thermostat has H-shaped internal passages. See pic here: http://www.xse.com/leres/ss/images/mocal-ot2-sm.html. When the oil gets warm enough, a valve is supposed to close the "crossbar in the H" passage, forcing the oil through the coolers. But apparently, mine isn't working. My peak oil temp on my long cruise was 219F, too hot.
My thermostat is now mounted vertically (think H on it's side) where before it was laying mostly flat (think H on it's back). I don't imagine that orientation of the thermostat should matter, but I do wonder if that may be affecting the operation. I did a quick search and found a Porsche running one like I have it now (http://www.instant-g.com/Products/911Mocal/), so it probably isn't the orientation. The thermostat can be disassembled, so I might take it apart and see if I can determine the problem. If it's just hosed or I don't feel like taking it apart, Pegasus and Racer Parts Wholesale sell them for less than $100 so I might just order a new one.
I am getting better with the clutch, but it still requires more concentration to get started than my old clutch with the organic disc (no surprise there, I guess). I think it might be a combination of me getting better at driving it and the clutch itself becoming a little more forgiving as it breaks in. I might adjust the clutch pedal a bit to move the friction point closer to the floor -- it's a little high now, which makes it harder to modulate. I do like the very positive engagement on shifts once I am already moving.
Even using minimal boost, relatively light throttle, and keeping the revs under 4000 it still seems just as fast or even faster than my daily driver (1990 Integra, stock, but I drive it at full throttle a lot). The engine runs wonderfully smooth and pulls pretty strong compared to the little 4-banger in the Integra. The RX-7 seems to be happiest going fast and gets there pretty quickly even with the granny driving. The fuel map I have is a bit rich (probably due to my higher fuel pressure than stock, ~45psi base), but the car runs pretty smoothly as long as you are accelerating or cruising at a decent speed. It's a bit choppy trying to cruise at lower speeds, however. The idle seems better after the long drive, too -- probably cleaned off the plugs a bit.
-Max
My thermostat is now mounted vertically (think H on it's side) where before it was laying mostly flat (think H on it's back). I don't imagine that orientation of the thermostat should matter, but I do wonder if that may be affecting the operation. I did a quick search and found a Porsche running one like I have it now (http://www.instant-g.com/Products/911Mocal/), so it probably isn't the orientation. The thermostat can be disassembled, so I might take it apart and see if I can determine the problem. If it's just hosed or I don't feel like taking it apart, Pegasus and Racer Parts Wholesale sell them for less than $100 so I might just order a new one.
I am getting better with the clutch, but it still requires more concentration to get started than my old clutch with the organic disc (no surprise there, I guess). I think it might be a combination of me getting better at driving it and the clutch itself becoming a little more forgiving as it breaks in. I might adjust the clutch pedal a bit to move the friction point closer to the floor -- it's a little high now, which makes it harder to modulate. I do like the very positive engagement on shifts once I am already moving.
Even using minimal boost, relatively light throttle, and keeping the revs under 4000 it still seems just as fast or even faster than my daily driver (1990 Integra, stock, but I drive it at full throttle a lot). The engine runs wonderfully smooth and pulls pretty strong compared to the little 4-banger in the Integra. The RX-7 seems to be happiest going fast and gets there pretty quickly even with the granny driving. The fuel map I have is a bit rich (probably due to my higher fuel pressure than stock, ~45psi base), but the car runs pretty smoothly as long as you are accelerating or cruising at a decent speed. It's a bit choppy trying to cruise at lower speeds, however. The idle seems better after the long drive, too -- probably cleaned off the plugs a bit.
-Max
02-26-05, 01:08 AM
#156
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Thread Starter
In my oil thermostat mounting search, I also found an aircraft engine that appears to be made by HKS, weird: http://www.hks700e.com/
-Max
-Max
02-26-05, 06:38 AM
#159
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Max,
My Mocal thermostat is mounted the same way, so add to your datapoints.
Unfortunately I know of two other failure of the same thermostat, so I'll make yours number #3. Have to admit that I wouldn't expect this sort of reliability problems from an established company like Mocal. I have to wonder if there is more nuance to proper installation than might first be evident?! Perhaps a quick email phone call to Mocal might be in order.
Again, congrats on the newest "bionics". Jut picked up Edan's GT40R myself and plan to modify it somewhat (3.5-4" downpipe) so we should keep each other informed on each others progress. Your progress is evident because of your prolific Forum presence. Guess I'll have to warm up the keyboard to as well.
My Mocal thermostat is mounted the same way, so add to your datapoints.
Unfortunately I know of two other failure of the same thermostat, so I'll make yours number #3. Have to admit that I wouldn't expect this sort of reliability problems from an established company like Mocal. I have to wonder if there is more nuance to proper installation than might first be evident?! Perhaps a quick email phone call to Mocal might be in order.
Again, congrats on the newest "bionics". Jut picked up Edan's GT40R myself and plan to modify it somewhat (3.5-4" downpipe) so we should keep each other informed on each others progress. Your progress is evident because of your prolific Forum presence. Guess I'll have to warm up the keyboard to as well.
02-26-05, 04:05 PM
#161
WWFSMD
Thread Starter
Carlos, thanks for providing me with some more information about the thermostat. I bet mine is #3. I considered whether I might have a piched hose or something, too, but my pressure sensor is after the thermostat and I am getting very healthy pressures, so I ruled that out. I'm just going to order another thermostat.
It concerns me a bit that it may have been broken before. I am sure that my oil coolers were warm at various points in the past, but I didn't check them every time (of course). And I didn't have an oil temp sensor until now. My thermostat could have been bad for a while without me knowing it. There was no apparent damage in the engine, but I hadn't been to the track in a while an I was running thick synthetic oil (RP Racing 51) -- maybe that saved me. I am very glad that I have an oil temp sensor now to alert me (the SPA gauge has an over temp a warning light to grab my attention) in case the thermostat stops working again.
Congrats on your GT40R pruchase. That was the other turbo I was considering for my build-up. If I remember correctly, Egan had it ceramic coated already, too, which is nice. I plan to get mine coated when I am done with the wg-dump-back-to-downpipe mod (I didn't have that done yet). I look forward to hearing about your install.
-Max
It concerns me a bit that it may have been broken before. I am sure that my oil coolers were warm at various points in the past, but I didn't check them every time (of course). And I didn't have an oil temp sensor until now. My thermostat could have been bad for a while without me knowing it. There was no apparent damage in the engine, but I hadn't been to the track in a while an I was running thick synthetic oil (RP Racing 51) -- maybe that saved me. I am very glad that I have an oil temp sensor now to alert me (the SPA gauge has an over temp a warning light to grab my attention
) in case the thermostat stops working again.Congrats on your GT40R pruchase. That was the other turbo I was considering for my build-up. If I remember correctly, Egan had it ceramic coated already, too, which is nice. I plan to get mine coated when I am done with the wg-dump-back-to-downpipe mod (I didn't have that done yet). I look forward to hearing about your install.
-Max
02-26-05, 09:15 PM
#162
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Originally Posted by maxcooper
We turned the compressor housing so the exit is at the bottom now. It is a tight fit up top, and I think you would have to weld an elbow to the compressor housing to clear the hood. But it works out better for my setup to exit downward anyway, so we turned it. The IC I'm running is a vertical-flow front mount, and we're going to have the air come in though the bottom. Right now, there is a tank on the side that carries the air from the high-mounted intake pipe down to the bottom of the core. If we move the intake pipe to the bottom, it doesn't have to make that journey and endure those bends.
Anyway, here are some more pics.
-Max
Anyway, here are some more pics.
-Max
02-26-05, 11:00 PM
#163
WWFSMD
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by FD3SR1
how hard was it to reclock the compressor housing? or did someone else do it?
-Max
03-01-05, 05:25 AM
#165
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Thread Starter
Break in is proceeding. The car actually seems to make decent torque down low off boost, though it's all relative -- it doesn't make V8 torque by any means. Perhaps it's just the usual impressions of having a new, good compression engine, however. Or that I can rev it a bit higher before the boost comes on than my last turbo setup. It feels pretty fast though, and I am sure it's just gonna scream when I start increasing the revs and boost. I'm just happy that it seems to run so well.
I ordered a new oil thermostat from Racer Parts Wholesale today after verifying that they have it in stock. It should be here Friday. Oil temps are still high in the meantime, in the 210-215 range while crusing. The peak recorded on my gauge is 222F. I'll put some fresh oil in it when I replace the thermostat.
The stock rubber fuel line that feeds the fuel filter (above the diff) started leaking today while I was driving. Thankfully, some other kind motorists alerted me to the problem and I quickly pulled it into a parking lot and shut it off. I replaced it with some straight fuel injection hose in a Del Taco parking lot tonight. I'm going to order the stock hose and install it since the bends are pretty severe -- I'd hate to have a kink restrict the fuel flow. The hose the started leaking was original with 177,500 miles on it. It was a little soft and thin on the fuel filter inlet barb. I think it just sprung a pinhole leak, as it wasn't visibly damaged.
I did a little fuel mileage test tonight. I drove on highway with the cruise control at 75MPH for 95.7 miles (odo reading -- but my 265/40-17 tires are a bit taller than stock) and burned 4.371 gallons of gas (measurement from back-to-back top-offs). That's 21.9 MPG, which is about equal to the best I've ever gotten on the highway before (stock engine & ECU, 10W-30, intake, IC, dp, stock cat, cb). I've got a big street port and I'm running 20W-50 oil now with a high flow cat. I'm not sure if the wideband sensor was getting too cool or not, but the mixtures were reading around 16.5 on flat stretches. The highway I was testing on changes elevation a lot, too. Not ground breaking, but not bad, either.
-Max
I ordered a new oil thermostat from Racer Parts Wholesale today after verifying that they have it in stock. It should be here Friday. Oil temps are still high in the meantime, in the 210-215 range while crusing. The peak recorded on my gauge is 222F. I'll put some fresh oil in it when I replace the thermostat.
The stock rubber fuel line that feeds the fuel filter (above the diff) started leaking today while I was driving. Thankfully, some other kind motorists alerted me to the problem and I quickly pulled it into a parking lot and shut it off. I replaced it with some straight fuel injection hose in a Del Taco parking lot tonight. I'm going to order the stock hose and install it since the bends are pretty severe -- I'd hate to have a kink restrict the fuel flow. The hose the started leaking was original with 177,500 miles on it. It was a little soft and thin on the fuel filter inlet barb. I think it just sprung a pinhole leak, as it wasn't visibly damaged.
I did a little fuel mileage test tonight. I drove on highway with the cruise control at 75MPH for 95.7 miles (odo reading -- but my 265/40-17 tires are a bit taller than stock) and burned 4.371 gallons of gas (measurement from back-to-back top-offs). That's 21.9 MPG, which is about equal to the best I've ever gotten on the highway before (stock engine & ECU, 10W-30, intake, IC, dp, stock cat, cb). I've got a big street port and I'm running 20W-50 oil now with a high flow cat. I'm not sure if the wideband sensor was getting too cool or not, but the mixtures were reading around 16.5 on flat stretches. The highway I was testing on changes elevation a lot, too. Not ground breaking, but not bad, either.
-Max
03-01-05, 01:00 PM
#166
You are running a cat without an air pump? I talked to 3-4 shops and they all told me it wasn't wise. It would clog the cat. What are your thoughts on the matter? Right now I'm running around with a midpipe and it stinks to bad my GF doesn't want to drive in the car anymore... I'm thinking about getting an electric air pump and hooking that to try to alleviate the stench for around town driving at least.
03-01-05, 01:16 PM
#168
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Originally Posted by GT-C
You are running a cat without an air pump? I talked to 3-4 shops and they all told me it wasn't wise. It would clog the cat. What are your thoughts on the matter? Right now I'm running around with a midpipe and it stinks to bad my GF doesn't want to drive in the car anymore... I'm thinking about getting an electric air pump and hooking that to try to alleviate the stench for around town driving at least.
-Max
03-01-05, 01:17 PM
#169
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ghostrx7
Max once your WB sensor is warmed up its warmed up...it wont cool off as long as the car is running..
Thanks,
-Max
03-01-05, 01:21 PM
#170
Place your ad here...
Originally Posted by maxcooper
... I hear the Corvette electric air pump has a short lifespan -- I guess it only runs when the engine is cold or something like that in its stock application. But perhaps that rumor is false, too...
-Max
-Max
-Rob
03-01-05, 01:27 PM
#171
WWFSMD
Thread Starter
Good to know. Thanks.
Does the RX-8 have an electric air pump? How much does it cost (I bet a lot)? Perhaps there are some other domestics with reasonably priced electric air pumps that would work.
-Max
Does the RX-8 have an electric air pump? How much does it cost (I bet a lot)? Perhaps there are some other domestics with reasonably priced electric air pumps that would work.
-Max
03-01-05, 03:33 PM
#172
development
I'm running a C4 electric air pump off the fuel pump resistor...got some advice from the vette forum...
I have only hundreds of hours on the pump, and hasn't crapped out yet. I'll let the forum know if it does...I also haven't tested emissions yet either, so I don't know if 9V is enough. My exhaust does smell cleaner after the install.
(sorry about quality of photos)
I have only hundreds of hours on the pump, and hasn't crapped out yet. I'll let the forum know if it does...I also haven't tested emissions yet either, so I don't know if 9V is enough. My exhaust does smell cleaner after the install.
(sorry about quality of photos)
03-01-05, 03:55 PM
#173
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Max fwiw. I have my A/F tuned for 15.2 a/f at cruise..varies from 14.7-15.2....real good gas mileage...even with 2x 850cc primaries. Definately dont want it too lean...we all know what happens then:p
03-01-05, 04:41 PM
#174
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Was the advice from the Vette forum to run the air pump at lower voltage to extend it's life? That's what it sounds like, but I want to make sure that is what you meant.
-Max
-Max
03-01-05, 07:50 PM
#175
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Originally Posted by maxcooper
Was the advice from the Vette forum to run the air pump at lower voltage to extend it's life? That's what it sounds like, but I want to make sure that is what you meant.
-Max
-Max
