R85 Dynos - Has anyone finished and dynoed?
05-04-05, 10:53 AM
#51
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No prob D. I just wanted to make sure that nobody thinks I'm baised towards one turbo kit vesus another when tuning them. I tuned everybody the same unless requested otherwise. I have said it before that the turbo kit seems to hold up well on the top end but I do feel a little more laggy for mid range compared to other turbo kits. bigger turbine wheel ineffectively acts as a bigger turbine housing (slower spool but higher high rpm flow) so the reponse and high rpm #'s add up to what was expected. There was another car that I tuned made 380rwhp@12psi on a T04E turbo. We were having a hard time making less hp because it was flowing so well for the fuel he has in it (4x 850cc injectors), we ended up detuning it by restricting the intake inlet with a small filter. That car was a freak monster for the turbo it has!
Originally Posted by rotor_dee
Steve thanks for clearing up the a/f issue. I would be interested to see the data log that shows the actual a/f or is the one on th edyno sheet correct. To clear thinks up I know you were requested to tune the car rich I just wanted to clear the record that this car/turbo could easily have made more horsepower. Wich would get it very close to the advertised hp rating and that would be very good considering the test car had no resonated mid pipe much larger air filter and propably more aggressive tune.
Piano the low boost dyno on is with a aftermarket manifold, but the high boost number is with a stock manifold. And maxes car of course is with a stock manifold and the torque tracks the exact same path as my low boost number with the upgraded manifold just a little lower. Maxes dyno does not fall off early like most other stock manifold dyno sheets do. And it is still open for discussion why this is?
As for the fire under my ***
I seriously doubt a video of me tuning the car at said 15psi making more power would help as there will always be speculation, but I will try and see what happens!
Piano the low boost dyno on is with a aftermarket manifold, but the high boost number is with a stock manifold. And maxes car of course is with a stock manifold and the torque tracks the exact same path as my low boost number with the upgraded manifold just a little lower. Maxes dyno does not fall off early like most other stock manifold dyno sheets do. And it is still open for discussion why this is?
As for the fire under my ***
I seriously doubt a video of me tuning the car at said 15psi making more power would help as there will always be speculation, but I will try and see what happens!Last edited by pluto; 05-04-05 at 10:59 AM.
05-04-05, 12:02 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by rotor_dee
And it is still open for discussion why this is?
Your the one that knows man....tell us lol
It is that the turbine sides making the engine more efficient due to less back pressure???
Stephen
05-04-05, 12:58 PM
#53
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Steve I would never think that you showed any favortism toward one kit, I just din't want people questioning my integrity by using this dyno as a comparison to mine without having all the data like air/fuel, timing, etc etc
SP it is the imaginary upgraded manifold Just kidding, different people have different styles of sizing turbos and most everyone agrees what compressor is needed to make x power, but the black art tends to be on the hot side. I feel that our cars run best between 5000-8000 rpm so I size the backside to be able to carry the power well in those areas and as you know hp is derived from torque and rpm and if you get the torque to carry the hp will follow if the torque falls off so will your hp. As stated by wargasm in previous post when shifting we rarely drop below 5500 especially with 4:33 rear gears.
Lots of people talk about lag and we throw the term around loosley I am guilty of it too. I am sure the R85 is not the fastest spooling turbo in the world but I would bet with equal drivers/tuning it will be one of the quickest from point a to point b. For example look at this vid of my car and watch the boost guage would you say it's laggy I would not but the turbo is bigger then the motor. What I am trying to say is when picking a turbo don't fall victom to the "lag" monster
P.S this vid is without nos to spool just some good old fashioned R&D in the tuning dept and turbo selection.
http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...ontent-25.html
Click on the fist vid that is 2.1mb to see the data with the run.
SP it is the imaginary upgraded manifold
Just kidding, different people have different styles of sizing turbos and most everyone agrees what compressor is needed to make x power, but the black art tends to be on the hot side. I feel that our cars run best between 5000-8000 rpm so I size the backside to be able to carry the power well in those areas and as you know hp is derived from torque and rpm and if you get the torque to carry the hp will follow if the torque falls off so will your hp. As stated by wargasm in previous post when shifting we rarely drop below 5500 especially with 4:33 rear gears.Lots of people talk about lag and we throw the term around loosley I am guilty of it too. I am sure the R85 is not the fastest spooling turbo in the world but I would bet with equal drivers/tuning it will be one of the quickest from point a to point b. For example look at this vid of my car and watch the boost guage would you say it's laggy I would not but the turbo is bigger then the motor. What I am trying to say is when picking a turbo don't fall victom to the "lag" monster
P.S this vid is without nos to spool just some good old fashioned R&D in the tuning dept and turbo selection.
http://www.powertraincontrolsolution...ontent-25.html
Click on the fist vid that is 2.1mb to see the data with the run.
05-04-05, 03:35 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by pluto
No prob D. I just wanted to make sure that nobody thinks I'm baised towards one turbo kit vesus another when tuning them. I tuned everybody the same unless requested otherwise. I have said it before that the turbo kit seems to hold up well on the top end but I do feel a little more laggy for mid range compared to other turbo kits. bigger turbine wheel ineffectively acts as a bigger turbine housing (slower spool but higher high rpm flow) so the reponse and high rpm #'s add up to what was expected. There was another car that I tuned made 380rwhp@12psi on a T04E turbo. We were having a hard time making less hp because it was flowing so well for the fuel he has in it (4x 850cc injectors), we ended up detuning it by restricting the intake inlet with a small filter. That car was a freak monster for the turbo it has!
haha... you were telling me that you couldnt belive the power that car was making!! i remember that we took off the air filter and we couldnt control the boost!
but as far as the R85 turbo and the dyno results, the shop's afr's were off... after the first car, i was the second one... and my afr's were way off compared to Steve's wideband... the they changed the filter and it was way better... but still not exact... and one more thing i would like to add is that the r85 turbo kit sounds exactly like a truck spooling on the freeway next to you! i have the vid of Steve tuning it... it was freaking awesome man!
-Roman
05-04-05, 04:57 PM
#56
Originally Posted by rzograbian
haha... you were telling me that you couldnt belive the power that car was making!! i remember that we took off the air filter and we couldnt control the boost!
but as far as the R85 turbo and the dyno results, the shop's afr's were off... after the first car, i was the second one... and my afr's were way off compared to Steve's wideband... the they changed the filter and it was way better... but still not exact... and one more thing i would like to add is that the r85 turbo kit sounds exactly like a truck spooling on the freeway next to you! i have the vid of Steve tuning it... it was freaking awesome man!
-Roman
but as far as the R85 turbo and the dyno results, the shop's afr's were off... after the first car, i was the second one... and my afr's were way off compared to Steve's wideband... the they changed the filter and it was way better... but still not exact... and one more thing i would like to add is that the r85 turbo kit sounds exactly like a truck spooling on the freeway next to you! i have the vid of Steve tuning it... it was freaking awesome man!
-Roman
05-13-05, 05:32 PM
#59
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looks like another drag turbo
It looks like the 60-1 is still a much better street turbo than R85.
I've said this many times, trying to find a better street turbo than the 60-1 or TO4S is like splitting hair. It reaches 200rwtq a whooping 1000 rpm earlier at 3500, and stays over 200 rwtq from 3.5K to 8.5K and beyond at less boost. Talk about good for racing flat torque curve.
Proof in the dyno(3 runs ranging from 12psi to 14psi):
http://home.comcast.net/~freddiemacten/dyno402.gif
just a FD with Microtech LX-8 with Base timing map, streetport, with HKS cast manifold, HKS std wg, 60-1, 1.0 A/R p-trim wheels. Everything built welded by yours truly.
More torque, earlier, better response, perfect for running less than 15psi on the street on pump gas.
Fred
I've said this many times, trying to find a better street turbo than the 60-1 or TO4S is like splitting hair. It reaches 200rwtq a whooping 1000 rpm earlier at 3500, and stays over 200 rwtq from 3.5K to 8.5K and beyond at less boost. Talk about good for racing flat torque curve.
Proof in the dyno(3 runs ranging from 12psi to 14psi):
http://home.comcast.net/~freddiemacten/dyno402.gif
just a FD with Microtech LX-8 with Base timing map, streetport, with HKS cast manifold, HKS std wg, 60-1, 1.0 A/R p-trim wheels. Everything built welded by yours truly.
More torque, earlier, better response, perfect for running less than 15psi on the street on pump gas.
Fred
Last edited by chohakai; 05-13-05 at 05:39 PM.
05-14-05, 12:19 PM
#60
I brake boost
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^ That's what I was kind of trying to get at with my previous post but didn't want to step on anyone's toes. I know if I was on stock ports and reved it at the past 6800 RPM on the dyno I would be in the 400+rwhp range.
05-14-05, 02:46 PM
#61
BDC Motorsports
I agree with Fred here. I have his old 60-1 HIFI turbo from years and years back. Great turbo. I remember him telling me then that he'd done a good amount of research on it and said there wasn't much better out there. The story still goes on as remarkably true...
B
B
05-15-05, 08:40 AM
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Don't have to worry about stepping on anyone's toes. One thing you will learn with more experience is that everyone's favorite turbo is the one they have on there car. People choose there turbos like they choose there religion and stick with them forever. As for the best street turbo .......... what ever one is in your car is my guess
05-25-05, 07:43 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by rotor_dee
Don't have to worry about stepping on anyone's toes. One thing you will learn with more experience is that everyone's favorite turbo is the one they have on there car. People choose there turbos like they choose there religion and stick with them forever. As for the best street turbo .......... what ever one is in your car is my guess
