Dyno results 494.1 on 93 pump only
04-08-08, 10:51 PM
#76
sans FD....
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hey justin, you said that cosmo is running right? i can drive it back from CO if you need....
and you're right, charlie's car has so many little thought out things. it truly does need to be seen in person to fully appreciate it. it's definitely inspiration for my car.
and you're right, charlie's car has so many little thought out things. it truly does need to be seen in person to fully appreciate it. it's definitely inspiration for my car.
04-09-08, 06:04 PM
#83
Will work for horsepower
Thread Starter
Im sure he likes the good fedback thanks.
When is your beast going to be done? It sounds like it will be top notch all the way!
04-09-08, 07:21 PM
#84
Yes its slow
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Is it me or does it seem that the dynograph measured the FLYWHEEL HP?
On the right table it says PowFly 494.1. Then next to it..417.1 which is about 20% driveline loss?
On the right table it says PowFly 494.1. Then next to it..417.1 which is about 20% driveline loss?
04-09-08, 07:27 PM
#86
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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Originally Posted by sburkett
Going back a bit in the thread but I can answer a couple of questions in case anyone is still interested...
"Flywheel Power" is calculated horsepower times a manual "correction factor" for people who want that. Our correction factor was 1.00 (no correction). Every Dynapack screen will show this correction factor. On these sheets, compare Power to PowerFly in the top right, you'll see they are the same. On other formats you will see a field labelled "TCF", and that is the manually entered multiplier. If you ever see a Dynapack sheet with TCF other than 1.00 you are being bamboozled.
The only correction being applied to the calculated horsepower is SAE correction, shown as PCRatio in the data box. A PCRatio between .95 and 1.05 means the result is a good solid number. Things get a little iffy outside that range. That applies to all dynos, not just Dynapack, as the SAE correction formula is not perfect.
It also says "Flywheel Torque" but that is a misnomer, confusion between New Zealand and American sensibilities. It really means "wheel torque divided by gear ratio".
Steven
"Flywheel Power" is calculated horsepower times a manual "correction factor" for people who want that. Our correction factor was 1.00 (no correction). Every Dynapack screen will show this correction factor. On these sheets, compare Power to PowerFly in the top right, you'll see they are the same. On other formats you will see a field labelled "TCF", and that is the manually entered multiplier. If you ever see a Dynapack sheet with TCF other than 1.00 you are being bamboozled.
The only correction being applied to the calculated horsepower is SAE correction, shown as PCRatio in the data box. A PCRatio between .95 and 1.05 means the result is a good solid number. Things get a little iffy outside that range. That applies to all dynos, not just Dynapack, as the SAE correction formula is not perfect.
It also says "Flywheel Torque" but that is a misnomer, confusion between New Zealand and American sensibilities. It really means "wheel torque divided by gear ratio".
Steven
04-09-08, 07:28 PM
#87
I Dislike Everything
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Shipping it is coming up to be 600.00+ and one company quoted me 1200.00. 
Have you seen pictures of it yet? It's pretty rough.
13B 4 port! Interior is CLEAN! It will probably be getting a 13B-RE Cosmo done.Charlie- Whenever you are near St.Louis again with the FD, please let me know. I would be honored to ride shotgun in that RED BEAST!
04-09-08, 08:11 PM
#88
BDC Motorsports
Even though I'm not trying to make for a rainy day, I'll give my reasons why I'm skeptical about this horsepower reading. Quoting Sburkett's post:
Unless I am misunderstanding something, there's a discrepancy between the two HP figures listed on the top right. They're 494.1 and 417.9 for LAP1 and CAP3, respectively, on the Power and PowFly outputs. Unless I haven't caught something, why is there a 417 figure? It just so happens to not only coincidentally be an 18-20% drop which mirrors that of a common, legitimate drivetrain loss when measuring the difference between rear wheel HP and flywheel HP, but the smaller figure also comports nearly exactly to the type of turbo and engine combination that's used with respect to the compressor's mass air flow output at that boost. I plotted it because I was suspicious of the horsepower output reading given that it's way, way above what's ever been done with that turbo, engine setup, and given boost level let alone what the turbo is physically capable. Sure, the knee-jerk excuse of "it's all in the tuning" can certainly be (mis)applied here, but tuning can't beat foundational physics. It's not all in the tuning; it's in the hardware setup and the pieces used to make that setup.
Here's a link to the compressor map I referenced: http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/compmaps/fig10.html Assuming that there's no air being blown out per a manifold leak somewhere (which, according to the lack of mid-range power per the dyno sheet, may be the case; might want to hunt around for anything like that, Busted7), the calculated pressure ratio is slightly under 2.4:1. Plot it on the compressor map and it will show the compressor's output, on a perfect day, is between 48 to ~50lbs/min. Using a calculation of ~12lbs/min airflow for 100rwhp as has been calculated a gazillion other times on a gazillion other cars, 50lbs/min % 12 = 416rwhp. Of course this isn't a definite, certain figure but it does illustrate that when looking at this from a nuts 'n bolts perspective that the calc'd figure is alot closer to this 417 displayed figure posted on the sheet rather than the purported 494 figure.
Understood.
I could buy this turbo maybe making 430rwhp on the motor setup given, which would still make for a really fast car, but I don't agree with 494. There's just no way in the world, shy of spraying N20 or something else going on that we're not being told, this turbo/engine combo can make nearly 500rwhp at 20.5lbs of boost given the data available. If it is indeed in that low 400's range (say 410-430rwhp), then it falls right in-line with what many others have done with the same or similar sized turbo on the same type of engine setup. Call me a nitpicker but something just doesn't add up here.
One question: What's the current weight of the car?
B
Going back a bit in the thread but I can answer a couple of questions in case anyone is still interested...
"Flywheel Power" is calculated horsepower times a manual "correction factor" for people who want that. Our correction factor was 1.00 (no correction). Every Dynapack screen will show this correction factor. On these sheets, compare Power to PowerFly in the top right, you'll see they are the same. On other formats you will see a field labelled "TCF", and that is the manually entered multiplier. If you ever see a Dynapack sheet with TCF other than 1.00 you are being bamboozled.
"Flywheel Power" is calculated horsepower times a manual "correction factor" for people who want that. Our correction factor was 1.00 (no correction). Every Dynapack screen will show this correction factor. On these sheets, compare Power to PowerFly in the top right, you'll see they are the same. On other formats you will see a field labelled "TCF", and that is the manually entered multiplier. If you ever see a Dynapack sheet with TCF other than 1.00 you are being bamboozled.
Here's a link to the compressor map I referenced: http://www.turbocharged.com/catalog/compmaps/fig10.html Assuming that there's no air being blown out per a manifold leak somewhere (which, according to the lack of mid-range power per the dyno sheet, may be the case; might want to hunt around for anything like that, Busted7), the calculated pressure ratio is slightly under 2.4:1. Plot it on the compressor map and it will show the compressor's output, on a perfect day, is between 48 to ~50lbs/min. Using a calculation of ~12lbs/min airflow for 100rwhp as has been calculated a gazillion other times on a gazillion other cars, 50lbs/min % 12 = 416rwhp. Of course this isn't a definite, certain figure but it does illustrate that when looking at this from a nuts 'n bolts perspective that the calc'd figure is alot closer to this 417 displayed figure posted on the sheet rather than the purported 494 figure.
The only correction being applied to the calculated horsepower is SAE correction, shown as PCRatio in the data box. A PCRatio between .95 and 1.05 means the result is a good solid number. Things get a little iffy outside that range. That applies to all dynos, not just Dynapack, as the SAE correction formula is not perfect.
It also says "Flywheel Torque" but that is a misnomer, confusion between New Zealand and American sensibilities. It really means "wheel torque divided by gear ratio".
Steven
Steven
One question: What's the current weight of the car?
B
04-09-08, 09:25 PM
#89
Front Range Express
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You almost hit THAT MAGIC 500 MARK on pump on a relatively small turbo. YOU JUST SET A NEW HIGH WATER MARK!!!!!!! AND Lots of people are going to want to match your results now!!!!
I'm definately not hating on you. I use to have a large street ported 13brew with a 62-1 that I ran at 18psi on pump and 20+ on race. I up-graded to a T-61 and had it tuned to 24 psi. My FD was built and tuned by one of best. I consistantly whooped *** on cars that had 50-75 more paper hp than mine.
I'm definately not hating on you. I use to have a large street ported 13brew with a 62-1 that I ran at 18psi on pump and 20+ on race. I up-graded to a T-61 and had it tuned to 24 psi. My FD was built and tuned by one of best. I consistantly whooped *** on cars that had 50-75 more paper hp than mine.
04-09-08, 10:07 PM
#90
Will work for horsepower
Thread Starter
That is confusing unless you knew that was from original tune about a year ago.
Cap 3 is 292.6 tq 2007
Cap 3 is 417.9 h/p at 14/15 ps1 a year ago. 2007
He put in on the sheet for reference!
I hope this clears this up.
Weight is right at 2800 lbs with me in it im about 170 lbs.
Cap 3 is 292.6 tq 2007
Cap 3 is 417.9 h/p at 14/15 ps1 a year ago. 2007
He put in on the sheet for reference!
I hope this clears this up.
Weight is right at 2800 lbs with me in it im about 170 lbs.
Last edited by Busted7; 04-09-08 at 10:14 PM.
04-10-08, 01:27 AM
#92
Just turn up the boost!
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before we got our in-house Dyno Dynamics i used to tune on my buddies Dynapack. besides the fact that i don't like it... the numbers are pretty accurate. they read higher than mine, but lower than dynojet 
the numbers are wheel output as i've had a few people come off the dynapack and get on my dynamics and they were only about 6% lower on mine give or take.
just throwing that out there
the numbers are wheel output as i've had a few people come off the dynapack and get on my dynamics and they were only about 6% lower on mine give or take.
just throwing that out there
04-10-08, 11:29 AM
#94
Will work for horsepower
Thread Starter
I love the car, i like working on it, i like the friends that it has helped me get so its been a good hobbie car for an old man to have.
Ive yet to go to drag strip and line up againest a dyno. Numbers are just numbers and if i was into big numbers with an import id have a supra.
Im the kind of person that hopes everyone gets the most out of there car and will help anyone if i can.
Thanks Charlie.
Ive yet to go to drag strip and line up againest a dyno. Numbers are just numbers and if i was into big numbers with an import id have a supra.
Im the kind of person that hopes everyone gets the most out of there car and will help anyone if i can.
Thanks Charlie.
04-10-08, 12:53 PM
#95
I don't understand why theres so many haters in here...
BDC why wouldn't you believe his 494hp figure at 20.5 psi?
I just dynoed my brothers car with a GT35 at roughly 20.5psi we made 496hp.
I would say a GT35 and 62-1 are pretty similiar turbos..
BDC why wouldn't you believe his 494hp figure at 20.5 psi?
I just dynoed my brothers car with a GT35 at roughly 20.5psi we made 496hp.
I would say a GT35 and 62-1 are pretty similiar turbos..
04-10-08, 12:59 PM
#96
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https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/maxed-out-gt35r-t3-dyno-746924/
04-11-08, 01:45 AM
#98
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Don't worry about it Enzo, the answer is simple, when you can't do it, no one else can. I think Charlie should come down to Dallas and school the haters/doubters at the track. It will be funny to see Charlie's full interor with A/C and P/S "419rwhp" car putting bus lengths on some of the "460rwhp" and "500rwhp" cars down the track.
Speaking of the 62-1 turbo, it flow max of 65lbs/min (approx 520rwhp). I made 480rwhp@18psi on my car back in 98 so I know the turbo is capable of making those numbers. I was the one that recommended the turbo to Charlie in the first place.
Speaking of the 62-1 turbo, it flow max of 65lbs/min (approx 520rwhp). I made 480rwhp@18psi on my car back in 98 so I know the turbo is capable of making those numbers. I was the one that recommended the turbo to Charlie in the first place.
04-11-08, 09:45 AM
#99
Will work for horsepower
Thread Starter
That sounds like fun, i like the track there they dont have hay bails at the end of the track to keep you from going over a cliff!
I need to do some more work on the car in general but ill give you a call! I just need to save up gas money for the suburban.
Thanks Steve: see ya!
I need to do some more work on the car in general but ill give you a call! I just need to save up gas money for the suburban.
Thanks Steve: see ya!