Rtek Rtek 2.0 Official Update Thread :)
03-16-07, 01:00 PM
#77
You are confusing two "features"
There is the "AFM Removal" which switches the whole ECU over to a speed density type system. It calculates fuel in a complete different way (using pressure, temp and RPM) as opposed to measuring air mass using the AFM. As the name of the feature hints, you can remove the AFM with this feature as it's not needed anymore.
Then there is MAP based Timing (which is what we are talking about now) which changes the way the ECU looks up the timing in the map. Instead of saying "Ok load is X % and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing", it says "ok, MAP is x psi, and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing."
It just changes load axis on the timing map to MAP pressure. It has nothing to do with calculating fuel.
There is the "AFM Removal" which switches the whole ECU over to a speed density type system. It calculates fuel in a complete different way (using pressure, temp and RPM) as opposed to measuring air mass using the AFM. As the name of the feature hints, you can remove the AFM with this feature as it's not needed anymore.
Then there is MAP based Timing (which is what we are talking about now) which changes the way the ECU looks up the timing in the map. Instead of saying "Ok load is X % and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing", it says "ok, MAP is x psi, and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing."
It just changes load axis on the timing map to MAP pressure. It has nothing to do with calculating fuel.
03-16-07, 01:54 PM
#78
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Originally Posted by turbo2ltr
You are confusing two "features"
There is the "AFM Removal" which switches the whole ECU over to a speed density type system. It calculates fuel in a complete different way (using pressure, temp and RPM) as opposed to measuring air mass using the AFM. As the name of the feature hints, you can remove the AFM with this feature as it's not needed anymore.
Then there is MAP based Timing (which is what we are talking about now) which changes the way the ECU looks up the timing in the map. Instead of saying "Ok load is X % and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing", it says "ok, MAP is x psi, and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing."
It just changes load axis on the timing map to MAP pressure. It has nothing to do with calculating fuel.
There is the "AFM Removal" which switches the whole ECU over to a speed density type system. It calculates fuel in a complete different way (using pressure, temp and RPM) as opposed to measuring air mass using the AFM. As the name of the feature hints, you can remove the AFM with this feature as it's not needed anymore.
Then there is MAP based Timing (which is what we are talking about now) which changes the way the ECU looks up the timing in the map. Instead of saying "Ok load is X % and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing", it says "ok, MAP is x psi, and RPM is Y, so the map says we should use Z for timing."
It just changes load axis on the timing map to MAP pressure. It has nothing to do with calculating fuel.
03-18-07, 12:56 PM
#80
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x javen x, Henrik said, "The default map will no longer be decent for everybody, it will really only be sufficient to start the car and drive in vacuum." So you will still have a basic map even in map mode to start with, but you will need to tune it to your setup.
03-18-07, 01:15 PM
#81
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ETA?
Henrik, "Range will still be limited to 2bar (stock boost sensor) with entries every 1.5psi on the same RPM points as currently in the system. The ECU interpolates between the points (in 2D) so the spacing won't be a problem."
Is there any way you could please have the map, map every 1 PSI? I realize that it interpolates between the 2, but it would be nice to have the added adjustabitlity to adjust each PSI independently.
There are 19 cells and you only need to go to 14PSI as that is where the stock map sensor maxes out, correct. That leaves you with 4 cells for vaccum (is that enough?) after using 14 for boost and 1 for O PSI.
Ed
Henrik, "Range will still be limited to 2bar (stock boost sensor) with entries every 1.5psi on the same RPM points as currently in the system. The ECU interpolates between the points (in 2D) so the spacing won't be a problem."
Is there any way you could please have the map, map every 1 PSI? I realize that it interpolates between the 2, but it would be nice to have the added adjustabitlity to adjust each PSI independently.
There are 19 cells and you only need to go to 14PSI as that is where the stock map sensor maxes out, correct. That leaves you with 4 cells for vaccum (is that enough?) after using 14 for boost and 1 for O PSI.
Ed
03-19-07, 03:15 AM
#83
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ok, I am cross eyed now. I have been whatching this for a very long time, not wanting to bump this but. the afm removal was going to be one of the main things in the update like, well a long time ago. so if I have this right with this update you will be able to switch to a map based setup on timing only not fuel. then there is to be a future speed density update that will enable us to remove the afm but only a base map to run the car on vacume will be included. or is this to be considered to be 2 separate features of the soon to be update and the afm removal is included in the update as function when the selectable mode of speed density is chosen for fuel??? henrik " - increase fuel adjustment to +/-25%
- add EGR as programmable RPM based switch output
- add var res as general input
- add control of the startup fuel curve
- expand AFC control to 14x14 (down to 0 rpm, down to -13psi)
- convert timing control to MAP based instead of load (AFM) based" also "Everythings coded for the update to the S4 TII 2.0 except the timing change. I know how to make the change, I just need to make sure its correct; measure twice - cut once kinda thing. This will be a selectable mode, so that people running milder mods can still use the AFM as the load sensor and use tweaked stock timing maps." mike "I know it's been discussed. Not sure if/when though. If I had to guess I'd say close to or after the AFM removal code is added....but Henrik would have a better idea." also "no, I said it does not have the AFM removal feature"
I am not sure on this but how can you switch to map based timing (remove afm load base from from ecu) and still have it referance afm for fuel? of the 7 items for update, this to me is item 7 that did not make it on this update since only 6 where chosen? in reading through the previous 6 pages it seems that going to a speed density update would have taken care of most of these 6 items. or do I have this all messed up?
I would guess I am not the only one that hasnt gotten this clear.
the afm removal was one of the first future updates planed when 2.0 was not even out yet wasnt it? is this function choice 1 on the next update or is this one thing that was hoped for to be part of the rtek 2.0 first relese going to be rtek 3.0?
sorry for the long responce but I need to do something regarding a ecu soon.
- add EGR as programmable RPM based switch output
- add var res as general input
- add control of the startup fuel curve
- expand AFC control to 14x14 (down to 0 rpm, down to -13psi)
- convert timing control to MAP based instead of load (AFM) based" also "Everythings coded for the update to the S4 TII 2.0 except the timing change. I know how to make the change, I just need to make sure its correct; measure twice - cut once kinda thing. This will be a selectable mode, so that people running milder mods can still use the AFM as the load sensor and use tweaked stock timing maps." mike "I know it's been discussed. Not sure if/when though. If I had to guess I'd say close to or after the AFM removal code is added....but Henrik would have a better idea." also "no, I said it does not have the AFM removal feature"
I am not sure on this but how can you switch to map based timing (remove afm load base from from ecu) and still have it referance afm for fuel? of the 7 items for update, this to me is item 7 that did not make it on this update since only 6 where chosen? in reading through the previous 6 pages it seems that going to a speed density update would have taken care of most of these 6 items. or do I have this all messed up?
I would guess I am not the only one that hasnt gotten this clear.
the afm removal was one of the first future updates planed when 2.0 was not even out yet wasnt it? is this function choice 1 on the next update or is this one thing that was hoped for to be part of the rtek 2.0 first relese going to be rtek 3.0?
sorry for the long responce but I need to do something regarding a ecu soon.
03-19-07, 11:24 AM
#84
It's confusing because people constantly pump us for information about what's coming out, so we tell them the current plan, but that plan can and does change. Also, you should read what I or Henrik say and not confuse it with what other people say, ask, or speculate.
In the first page of this thread it said:
> We are currently discussing 7 possible new/updated features.
Keyword: Possible. I might have missed it, but I didn't see anywhere that it said there were 7 new features that were definitely being added..
For the sake of clarity, we will call the upcoming update "ver 2.1".
As of today:
1: The "AFM Removal" feature is NOT in ver 2.1.
That could change, but I doubt it as it would greatly increase the ETA of the update due to the extensive testing needed. We would really like to get v2.1 out ASAP. While no definitive answer has been made, the update with the AFM Removal feature will probably not be free. The NA cars are getting the AFM Removal first. Once proven on the NA, we will port it over to the TII.
The AFM removal feature should drive just like stock...thats the whole point of using the stock ECU, right? It will not "only have a base map to run the car on vacuum".
2: As of this moment, the latest "internal" working version has these features:
- increase fuel adjustment to +/-37.5%
- add EGR as programmable RPM based switch output
- add var res as general input
- expand AFC control to 14x14 (down to 0 rpm, down to -13psi)
- add control of the startup fuel curve
- Software ISC and Variable Resistor
The final feature to be added is the MAP based timing lookup. THIS is the feature that will only come with a basic timing map. The stock map will still be there if you want to run in the stock "load vs RPM" mode, just as it is in the current release. But if you are in the MAP vs RPM mode, you will need to do some work on the timing map to make it ideal for your setup..
You most certainly can change the way the timing is looked up without touching the way fuel is calculated. They are two different processes.
3: The ver 2.1 update will have some cost associated with it, though we don't expect it to be anything significant. Nothing has been finalized, but at a minimum, the price will at least cover the cost of the chip (assuming you do it yourself). The PocketLOGGER software update that will be required to be used with ver 2.1 will be free.
In the first page of this thread it said:
> We are currently discussing 7 possible new/updated features.
Keyword: Possible. I might have missed it, but I didn't see anywhere that it said there were 7 new features that were definitely being added..
For the sake of clarity, we will call the upcoming update "ver 2.1".
As of today:
1: The "AFM Removal" feature is NOT in ver 2.1.
That could change, but I doubt it as it would greatly increase the ETA of the update due to the extensive testing needed. We would really like to get v2.1 out ASAP. While no definitive answer has been made, the update with the AFM Removal feature will probably not be free. The NA cars are getting the AFM Removal first. Once proven on the NA, we will port it over to the TII.
The AFM removal feature should drive just like stock...thats the whole point of using the stock ECU, right? It will not "only have a base map to run the car on vacuum".
2: As of this moment, the latest "internal" working version has these features:
- increase fuel adjustment to +/-37.5%
- add EGR as programmable RPM based switch output
- add var res as general input
- expand AFC control to 14x14 (down to 0 rpm, down to -13psi)
- add control of the startup fuel curve
- Software ISC and Variable Resistor
The final feature to be added is the MAP based timing lookup. THIS is the feature that will only come with a basic timing map. The stock map will still be there if you want to run in the stock "load vs RPM" mode, just as it is in the current release. But if you are in the MAP vs RPM mode, you will need to do some work on the timing map to make it ideal for your setup..
You most certainly can change the way the timing is looked up without touching the way fuel is calculated. They are two different processes.
3: The ver 2.1 update will have some cost associated with it, though we don't expect it to be anything significant. Nothing has been finalized, but at a minimum, the price will at least cover the cost of the chip (assuming you do it yourself). The PocketLOGGER software update that will be required to be used with ver 2.1 will be free.
03-19-07, 12:31 PM
#85
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im all in for the asap release. i can wait on the AFM removal, its not like that thing is costing me huge hp.
I think the release of the MAP based timing was the most important update, not the AFM removal, so this update went in the right order.
i figured it wouldn't be free as it wasn't a 'bug' fix, but rather features added. I was hoping it would be rather inexpensive tho
I think the release of the MAP based timing was the most important update, not the AFM removal, so this update went in the right order.
i figured it wouldn't be free as it wasn't a 'bug' fix, but rather features added. I was hoping it would be rather inexpensive tho
03-19-07, 03:59 PM
#86
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yea..if it costs very much...then this solution will start climbing closer and closer to the price of a full standalone EMS...but I'll wait and see exactly what it costs before I make a decision.
03-19-07, 07:02 PM
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mike, thanks for putting the clarifcation info out that way. it cleared somethings up. very clever how you did not anser some of the questions I had in there and saved them for future possible features. I did not realize some of them I implied till I reread my post.
any idea on time frame goals on possible future features? v 2.1 included? I understand the concern for the tII when switching to speed density. and the bussiness choice of doing the na ecu first, but being a rotary owner for close to 30 years and these cars geting older and fewer every day I have scene a lot of things come and go and many more never make it to market. I am still hoping the afm removal does not turn into the longest planed,hoped for,proposed, future posible option that never happened.
icecreaman, everyone has their own ideas on what order they would like their features. I would have placed this one first for how it has to be done, and what it would affect. IMHO to remove the afm (go to a speed density system)you would have to switch to map based data for timing as well as afew other things. there are a lot of reasons someone would want this item placed earlier as a feature then for just the restriction in the intake.
any idea on time frame goals on possible future features? v 2.1 included? I understand the concern for the tII when switching to speed density. and the bussiness choice of doing the na ecu first, but being a rotary owner for close to 30 years and these cars geting older and fewer every day I have scene a lot of things come and go and many more never make it to market. I am still hoping the afm removal does not turn into the longest planed,hoped for,proposed, future posible option that never happened.
icecreaman, everyone has their own ideas on what order they would like their features. I would have placed this one first for how it has to be done, and what it would affect. IMHO to remove the afm (go to a speed density system)you would have to switch to map based data for timing as well as afew other things. there are a lot of reasons someone would want this item placed earlier as a feature then for just the restriction in the intake.
03-19-07, 07:14 PM
#88
It was not my intention to not answer any particular questions. Please point out any I missed.
I have made a new sticky in the forum that has a sort of "roadmap" and status of the future versions which will be updated as we get information.
The AFM removal feature is already running on the NA. I assure you we have all intentions of bringing it to the TII.
In keeping with our goal to provide affordable engine management solutions, the cost of future updates will be quite affordable and will not push the price anywhere near the cost of other standalones.
I have made a new sticky in the forum that has a sort of "roadmap" and status of the future versions which will be updated as we get information.
The AFM removal feature is already running on the NA. I assure you we have all intentions of bringing it to the TII.
In keeping with our goal to provide affordable engine management solutions, the cost of future updates will be quite affordable and will not push the price anywhere near the cost of other standalones.
03-19-07, 10:55 PM
#89
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I will preface this post by saying, please dont mistake this for rudeness or being ungrateful. I realize you have good & fast customer service and it is a great you post in here so regularly but, this is a community forum where people share info, ideas, wants, desires etc. I can point out flaws in the EMS that is part of a forums beauty I can voice my frustrations with others who may feel the same way. Thats the function of the forum, plus it is free advertisement for your product which helps sell your EMS'.
You can't look at it as we are "people constantly pump us for information about what's coming out". We are just anxious customers wanting to tune our cars with a product we already bought. I for example have had this EMS for a long time and still cannot tune my car properly because of the timing "bug".
I can point out flaws in the EMS that is part of a forums beauty I can voice my frustrations with others who may feel the same way.
BTW The timing issue is a "bug".
When it claims, "suitable for moderately to heavily modded RX7s. For the ultimate in flexability. Full fuel and timing control." You assume it tunes timing above 8 PSI.
Thank you and I really do appreciate all the correspondence,
Ed
You can't look at it as we are "people constantly pump us for information about what's coming out". We are just anxious customers wanting to tune our cars with a product we already bought. I for example have had this EMS for a long time and still cannot tune my car properly because of the timing "bug".
I can point out flaws in the EMS that is part of a forums beauty I can voice my frustrations with others who may feel the same way.
BTW The timing issue is a "bug".
When it claims, "suitable for moderately to heavily modded RX7s. For the ultimate in flexability. Full fuel and timing control." You assume it tunes timing above 8 PSI.
Thank you and I really do appreciate all the correspondence,
Ed
03-21-07, 09:31 PM
#93
Originally Posted by edomund
I will preface this post by saying, please dont mistake this for rudeness or being ungrateful. I realize you have good & fast customer service and it is a great you post in here so regularly but, this is a community forum where people share info, ideas, wants, desires etc. I can point out flaws in the EMS that is part of a forums beauty I can voice my frustrations with others who may feel the same way. Thats the function of the forum, plus it is free advertisement for your product which helps sell your EMS'.
You can't look at it as we are "people constantly pump us for information about what's coming out". We are just anxious customers wanting to tune our cars with a product we already bought. I for example have had this EMS for a long time and still cannot tune my car properly because of the timing "bug".
I can point out flaws in the EMS that is part of a forums beauty I can voice my frustrations with others who may feel the same way.
BTW The timing issue is a "bug".
When it claims, "suitable for moderately to heavily modded RX7s. For the ultimate in flexability. Full fuel and timing control." You assume it tunes timing above 8 PSI.
Thank you and I really do appreciate all the correspondence,
Ed
You can't look at it as we are "people constantly pump us for information about what's coming out". We are just anxious customers wanting to tune our cars with a product we already bought. I for example have had this EMS for a long time and still cannot tune my car properly because of the timing "bug".
I can point out flaws in the EMS that is part of a forums beauty I can voice my frustrations with others who may feel the same way.
BTW The timing issue is a "bug".
When it claims, "suitable for moderately to heavily modded RX7s. For the ultimate in flexability. Full fuel and timing control." You assume it tunes timing above 8 PSI.
Thank you and I really do appreciate all the correspondence,
Ed
03-22-07, 07:05 PM
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I REALLY hate to ask this, caue i know you hate this question. Is there a time frame on the stage 2.1?
Steve Kahn is coming May 5-6, and i would hate to blow my $400 on tuning if he can't figure out the timing part of my tune.
I see its second quarter '07, i am just hoping for early second quarter?
Steve Kahn is coming May 5-6, and i would hate to blow my $400 on tuning if he can't figure out the timing part of my tune.
I see its second quarter '07, i am just hoping for early second quarter?
03-22-07, 09:32 PM
#96
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Have you asked Steve Kahn if he will tune the Rtek? If not you should ask because some tuners will only tune the stuff they know.
If the update is not done I would SERIOUSLY consider rescheduling the tuning session, the timing will be useless once the update comes out. It's not a matter that he wont be able to figure it out, it's pretty easy to tune it just isn't capable of tuning high HP setups in it's current state.
ed
If the update is not done I would SERIOUSLY consider rescheduling the tuning session, the timing will be useless once the update comes out. It's not a matter that he wont be able to figure it out, it's pretty easy to tune it just isn't capable of tuning high HP setups in it's current state.
ed
03-22-07, 11:55 PM
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hence the question... I can't reschedule because the date is set 12 other people are in too. Im either in or out, and im not lookin to be out... if 2.1 doesn't come out in time, ill just have to go another stand alone, cause i can't miss this tune!
03-23-07, 03:00 PM
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no faith lost yet. I REALLY want to use the Rtek7 and put down some really nice power to show it can be done... version 2.1 seems to be the trick!
I figure a BNR stage4 and the Rtek7 and Steve Kan tuning, i can put a dyno chart in this forum for us to be proud of!
i would be happy to Beta the 2.1 if you guys need... whatever makes it available to me in April
I figure a BNR stage4 and the Rtek7 and Steve Kan tuning, i can put a dyno chart in this forum for us to be proud of!
i would be happy to Beta the 2.1 if you guys need
... whatever makes it available to me in April