sk8world

iTrader: (5)

I was told detenation but there must be another culprit. Also if you search on google you will read the same from any site going over how to read plugs. I think I also read presents of water could do this?

Viking War Hammer

iTrader: (8)

Good to see some clean dyno runs.

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

You'll see a few passes all around the 450-480 range, that was when I was making the timing changes. The 603hp pass was after the timing changes after I raised the boost.

Anthony

turboR1

doubt it was the plugs unless they were really old. i was using 10egvs in my car for initial tuning and i forgot to take them out and made several 700hp pulls and the plugs came out perfect. not sure what would happen if i kept them in there longer but they held up perfectly. sucks not knowing what happened. i hate that.

mad20b

Why are you still using AFRs?? You really need to be tuning in Lambda. How do you know what the AFR should be when you have a mixture of ethanol, petrol & methanol?? Lambda will always read the same no matter what the mix of fuels is! Lambda .8 is 20% richer than stoic, no matter what mix of petrol/ ethanol/methanol you have. but if you have an AFR of 10.0 & its 50% methanol, 15% ethanol & 35% petrol in your mixture, lets just say things are LEAN!!! When things are lean like that, you will get detonation.... something to think about??

AnthonyNYC

iTrader: (3)

Right now I think it was the plugs because they were old. Changed to a new set ran all weekend and dyno time etc with no issues.

As for reading in Lamda, I really need to.

enzo250

Why? Most afr meters read in lambda and then convert the display to your setting...

.8 Lambda is always .8 lambda. And 11.76 afr in gasoline is always .8 lambda...

So tuning to 11.76 afr (gas scale) with ethanol or whatever fuel choice you use is always going to be .8 lambda..

BTW im just using 11.76 as an example don't go tuning your car to that value..

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

forget lambda.

enzo is 100% on the money.

hc

mad20b

Enzo - that is fine if you only have one fuel & you are converting to use in that "scale". Can you honestly tell me what AFR he should be tuning to with a mix of petrol, ethanol & methanol...... No, I didnt think so, but the lambda figure will still be what it is, a percentage richer of stoich.... so you pretty much agreed with me. Lambda .8 will always be Lambda .8!!

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

Lambda and A/F's are obviously good to tune, but I think EGT's are more important anyway.

jantore

Well not realy, cause with Ethanol and Methanol you will get lower EGT temps with the same AF/Lambda ratio. On gas yes EGT is important. But you can't be running 800 degrece celcius exhaust temps and a AF ratio of 9.8 for instance, just to give a example. You do want to lean that sucker out abit even tho the EGT temps are low. So you also need to see the air to fuel mixture as well.

And it could still be way off even if you have 900 celcius in EGT temps.

JT

enzo250

I think your confusing yourself.. The meter doesn't know what fuel your using. OR what mix it is..
It's just reporting what the lambda value is... So, again if you wanted to run .8 lambda with your mix of gas, meth, ethanol, etc and your meter is set in gas scale.. Tune it to 11.76 afr and your car is running at .8 lambda...

enzo250

I agree.. I like to tune with both egt's and afr's..

SPL_PIMP

....You dont have a car this year??

SPL_PIMP

..Dam i really wanted to go to the Slam this year!!!! Got to work have fun up there, i hear its a blast!!!

mad20b

Yea ok... WHATEVER!!

You are the one who is confused enzo...

You have a mix of 3 different fuels. 1 has a Stoich of 14.7, one has a stoich of 6.4 & the other one has a stoich of 9.79. Are you seriously going to tell me you would mix these 3 fuels at relatively unknown amounts & then use a number you would tune to on PETROL SCALE... ???

yes you are right, if you were on PETROL you would tune to 11.76 to get Lambda .8... If you were tuning ethanol, Lambda .8 would be an AFR of ~7.9 If you were on methanol you would tune your AFR to 5.1 to get a lambda of .8... Did you notice he leaned off the mixture once he added the methanol because it was showing rich AFR (Petrol Scale), but if he was tuning in LAMBDA, it may well have shown it was LEAN ...???? he may have added some more fuel & kept the motor alive...

Sorry for hijacking, just thought it was important to point this out!

jantore

mapping with 3 diffrent fuels is abit overkill i think hehe. But when we mapped my 2 rotor BP engine last year with E85 we mapped with Gas AF ratios. We had about 12.5 AF/R at 1.35 bar of bost on a T04Z turbo. Could have leand it out more, but did not have more time.

I have been told atleast on pure E85 you can tune after normal gas AF/Lamda ratios.

JT

enzo250

Not really... I'll try to explain it one last time..

You do realize that the af meter is always reading in lambda and then converting the display to whichever scale you have selected since lambda is always the same for every fuel..

SO if your mixture (whatever fuel you might be using) is .8 lambda your af meter will see that as .8 lambda and then convert it's display to 11.76 if your using the petrol scale or 5.1 for the meth scale, 11.6 for diesel, etc, etc...

Now if you wanted to tune a methanol car at .8 lambda you could leave your af meter setup for gasoline and tune it till you see 11.76 on the meter. In the end it's still .8 lambda.

Same thing if you had diesel and wanted to tune it to .8 lambda you could leave the meter in gasoline scale and tune it to 11.6 afr and that would be the same as .8 lambda

And same for any other fuel at any mixture. If you wanted to tune it to .8 lambda.
Just leave the af meter in gasoline scale and tune for 11.76..

I wear a size 9 shoe.
I bought a pair of shoe's in italy and there 42 but yet still fit the same as a 9 would in america.
Different numbers but in the end it's the same result.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

I thought you were wasting your time trying to educate this guy when you started but that made my day!

13B-RX3

iTrader: (2)

But...what were they made of

mad20b

LOL!

Ok, Yes, Im a Size 42 also... Im not sure if you are a USA size 9 or a UK size 9 as its always so confusing.... So I use 42, Just as I use lambda!

Yes, You are correct... If your meter is set in petrol scale, it will convert from lambda to the number you are used to reading in AFR.

My apoligies for my brain fade & Pig headed arguing!!

I still prefer Lambda, because it is a universal reading regardless of the fuel or scale you are correcting for. You only have to learn it once, not everytime you learn a new fuel.

Yes I was wrong! As you were!!

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

As indicated in my post, A/F/lambda is important but EGT's I think is a little more important. If your serious about tunning you want to use both A/F and EGT's. And yes different fuels will have different EGT temps at a given A/F ratio, so that's why you have to know wtf your doing.