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Doesn't the Collins kit require you to cut through the bell housing? It can obviously be done, but for this type of thing, i much prefer things that just bolt together. There's enough other custom things to worry about.
And I have nothing against Collins products. I use their cd009 adapter for the 2jz and it works great. But it's simply an adapter plate from bell housing to engine. It's also cool because I can use the older 350z cd009 with the external slave cylinder. But there just isn't room for that on an FD.
yes, the Collins adapter requires the AT rear iron and starter setup. A manual rear iron can be machined (or home garage hatchet job) to have the same flat area for the starter, but I’m not sure if that adapter has any additional threaded holes for mounting the starter. If not, then the starter mounting bolt holes would also need to be drilled and tapped on the iron as well.
yes, the Collins adapter requires the AT rear iron and starter setup. A manual rear iron can be machined (or home garage hatchet job) to have the same flat area for the starter, but I’m not sure if that adapter has any additional threaded holes for mounting the starter. If not, then the starter mounting bolt holes would also need to be drilled and tapped on the iron as well.
if you can find one, you can use an Auto FC bell housing. That's what I'm doing I'll post pics when my stuff comes in.
I’m not familiar enough with an FC to know, but are you sure?
Does Not include (but requires) the following: -T56 Slave Cylinder (throwout bearing) -13B REW Automatic bell housing -FC FD Counter Weight FD Automatic Flexplate (required if you do not select the Billet flywheel) -FD Automatic Starter FD Automatic Counter-weight Automatic Rear housing is required.
I had a buyer for mine, but directed him to yours because honestly I can’t touch your price. Hard lesson learned is often the best I suppose, along with the fortune of timing.
However, there is a variance between two versions of the kit; FD vs FC, that need to be disclosed. Some pics might add more substance to your FS ad as well.
However, there is a variance between two versions of the kit; FD vs FC, that need to be disclosed. Some pics might add more substance to your FS ad as well.
best wishes.
There are no "two versions" or differences between the kit anyone has received in regard to engine compatibility, and your sale ad is wrong.
The variance is solely in the designs Mazda chose for the FC/FD starters; not the kit, and not the engine.
The FD starter has a longer lower ear
You can use any combo of starter/engine, be it FC/FC, FC/FD, FD/FD, or FD/FC.
The kit also works for both Automatic and Manual rear irons, there is no difference there either. The adapter plate has provisions for all necessary mounting holes, and you use whichever is there in your specific case, and the kit comes with a cover to close up the starter/inspection hole whether you have an AT or MT rear engine iron.
Read the PDF manual you got, you will see that it's quite literally one M10 allen head screw on the provided starter mount that you remove and reinstall into the exact same hole which allows you to mix FC & FD engines & starters at your leisure. The only slight difference being that the hole made in the transmission for the FD starter is a touch larger in one area (due to the orientation of the mounting ear).
If you make the hole accomodate an FD starter, you can swap starters in and out at your leisure if you are having trouble locating any of the types of starters available or if you're stranded in a place that only has FC starters on a road trip or something.
It does not get any simpler than that, and it was intentionally designed this way to allow the most compatibility between engines/parts that people regularly have in their parts bin or can get at the local autoparts store.
Even after drilling the mounting holes in the starter, you can still use the modified/drilled starter on a factory transmission provided you tighten the bolts up appropriately. If you really want, you can buy a sleeve for the original M10 bolts to take up the slack if you need to use the starter for a car without a transmission swap kit. But if I was going to sell the starter to someone at a later date, I would at least do them the courtesy of providing the sleeves or notifying them of the modifications.
just posting this up per a discussion with someone else
the CD009 trans combined with early year 3.727 Mazda 8” R&P becomes equivalent to a slightly closer ratio FD 5-spd gearing with an additional/useable 6th OD gear
CD009 6-spd, 3.727 R&P, 25.6” tire OD
75mph in 6th is ~2900 rpm
.
It ends up comparable to the FD 5-spd with 4.444 RX8 R&P that some members here seem to prefer; just slightly steeper 1st - 3rd, but then less steep in the higher gears
.
just posting this up per a discussion with someone else
the CD009 trans combined with early year 3.727 Mazda 8” R&P becomes equivalent to a slightly closer ratio FD 5-spd gearing with an additional/useable 6th OD gear
CD009 6-spd, 3.727 R&P, 25.6” tire OD
75mph in 6th is ~2900 rpm
.
It ends up comparable to the FD 5-spd with 4.444 RX8 R&P that some members here seem to prefer; just slightly steeper 1st - 3rd, but then less steep in the higher gears
.
I’m running a Ford 8.8 IRS diff with 3.73 and it feels just perfect for a street car with my CD009.
It’s more or less the same ratio as you described with the 8” ring/pinion
Sorry for the absence. I have been receiving messages from some members here showing interest in the kit, as well as pricing and timeline + any additional info I could share. So I've directed you all here.
Technical Updates:
The car that is currently fitted with this kit made a very conservative 470whp on the dyno with no driveline vibration at 8000+ RPM, which is good.
The engine the kit was tested with was using earlier irons, which I was told were thinner castings than the later ones, and ended up cracking near some fitting or plug (I can't quite remember) which is a known problem on thinner casted 13B irons, apparently. Again, this isn't something I am familiar with, but I was told that it had more to do with the power output and poor casting than anything else.
Upon teardown of the engine after making 470+ whp we came to a number of positive conclusions regarding this kit.
I can now safely say that:
A] the flywheel spacer is machined and designed well, the ARP bolts that thread into the counterweight did not loosen at all, which is a big concern of mine. Some of the VK56 to CD/JK trans adapters make use of a similar spacer and have issues with aluminum flywheels and bolts coming loose. This kit did not show any signs of the same issues with its limited runs on the dyno. This will be further investigated throughout the year if the engine is ever removed from the vehicle again, but so far it's good. Flywheel Fastening = PASS
B] the adapter plate itself was machined to tolerances well within input shaft runout spec. No vibrations from the drivetrain from the motor all the way to the diff. This was confirmed on a dynapack to 7000rpm, and now a roller dyno to 8500rpm or thereabouts. Driveline Vibration = PASS
C] No issues with starter alignment or mounting to speak of. The car starts normally every time. There are very simple starter mods that can be done in about 5 minutes with a die grinder or even a cut-off wheel if you're handy [at least 14 dexterity required], and does not damage the starter or prevent it from being used in a standard mazda transmission at a later date if need be. Starter Fitment = PASS
D] Clutch slave adapter upgrade that was purchased from a Z parts outfitter seems to show signs of wear or running off-center, but I'm not sure if it's excessive or normal at this point. I am working on a separate style of clutch slave upgrade that will undoubtedly outlast most of the other clutch components and is easily rebuildable, cheaper, and much more robust. It will also feature a way better heavy duty bearing from the 350Z, which has the same conical "high speed" face that the original FC/FD does. Hydraulic Throwout Bearing = Still Testing
Pricing & Availability:
Pricing is coming soon.
The clutch slave thing is going to be the only holdup at this point since I don't want to sell a kit that has clutch slave failures repeatedly. Pulling these transmissions is not going to be fun in an unmodified car with the stock rad support and whatnot. I'd like to prevent that from being a normal thing. This means I have a new part of the puzzle to factor in, but it also means that you don't have to buy an "upgrade" slave cylinder from someone else that is 2.5-3 times the cost and is not rebuildable, nor do you have to buy the T56 slave that is used in the colins kit that uses the same bearing as the one in the "upgrade" kit- which at this point seems incompatible with the RX7 diaphragm fingers. That is a decent savings in cost when we get it working- which I already have a solution for, I just need to have it milled an installed.
There are
7-8 currently interested users here on the boards
4-5 currently interested locally
though I know this is only "interest" and not "guaranteed to buy".
In order to get accurate and best pricing, I will need to know who is interested in this kit for real.
admittedly, I simply do not have the funds to produce 20 of these kits and have them sitting around until someone decides to upgrade their drivetrain.
The only other alternative to this kit at this point is the Colins Adapter, and it currently requires an automatic Cosmo 20B bellhousing , and the purchase of their flywheel if you don't have the auto flex-plate and stock flywheel. it also requires the purchase of the T56 throwout bearing (which is virtually the same as the one used in the 350z upgrade kit, so I can't speak to its reliability just yet as we might be having problems with it). With their machined flywheel, the kit is $1200USD, and with the throwout bearing and lines, it ends up being around $1350-1400 USD and I you'll have to upgrade the bearing collar on the slave anyway, so you're looking at around $1500 USD for the Colins adapter.
Currently, it looks like the kit pricing of what I have here would be around $1500-1700 CAD, which is around $1100-1300 USD, but you should be able to use your factory flywheel and not require the purchase of hard to find auto bellhousing and flexplate. It will work with all your stock items. if you are upgrading from a manual setup already. The price COULD go down quite a bit depending on number of people interested, and whether or not the slave cylinder setup needs to be included- but you'd still have to purchase an upgraded slave afterwards if it's not included in the kit. the stock Z one is incompatible and a plastic piece of poop.
The kit will include:
- Adapter Plate for Transmission to Rear Iron
- Starter to Bell Housing Adapter
- Pilot Bushing for Eccentric Shaft
- Flywheel Spacer
- Clutch Slave / Hydraulic Throwout Bearing *pending
- Clutch Slave Mounting Plate *pending
- Clutch Slave Hydraulic Lines *pending
- Fasteners for: --- Adapter Plate to Rear Iron
--- Transmission/Bellhousing to Adapter Plate
--- Starter Mount
--- Starter to Starter Mount
--- Flywheel to Flywheel Spacer & Counterweight
--- Clutch Slave/Bearing to Adapter Mount
In order to use this kit to put this transmission on a 13B engine you will provide:
- your own driveshaft
- your own manual starter
- your own pressure plate
- your own clutch disc with 350z/nissan T-24 spline
- your own flywheel
- your own counterweight
- your own rotary engine
there are no guarantees that it will fit in an unmodified chassis- as the transmission is quite wide and tall. the kit is simply to adapter the transmission to the engine, and nothing more.
you are responsible for fitting and mounting it into whatever chassis you choose. I repeat: everything outside of the bell housing or clutch/starting system are up to you and/or your fabricator. This kit is not specific to any vehicle.
No, this kit does not work on 2JZ engines. I am not sure why I've received 3 PMs regarding this. It does not work on any other engine other than those tested on.
I would like to open this thread for "interested" users who are serious, and understand the outside costs that are not included in the kit. You have to pay to play with proper transmission solutions. Overall, they are not cheap.
if you are seriously interested, put your name on this list below, and I will soon create a vendor thread or something in the proper forum:
"I have read the *estimated price* and I am still intersted in purchasing this kit or receiving more information in a vendor thread in the future"
1. BlackStarRotary - Alvin
Hey Careless, I was wondering if I could get a quote on lead time for one of your kits. I've already purchased my JK40c, slave cylinder, bleeder lines, clutch disk (SR20, just barely fits the flywheel), flywheel (FD) and starter I bought an automatic one because the power output, because I thought I was going to go a different route, but I know I can swap the front casing to fit the manual mount.
If you could reply with a way to contact you for the purchase I'd let to get a kit soon. Thanks
at the risk of opening my mouth and being wrong again , last I heard they were all sold and not going to be produced any more.
There is another source in Canada now, and they also offer a trans mount along with OE diff support for the PPF delete. Something different on this kit is it includes a bellhousing rather than adapter. However, the counter to that is you have to use their modified Z car flywheel with a Z car, Tilton, or OS Giken Z car clutch rather than the RX7 flywheel/clutch. Not cheap either, but look for it to be on sale on certain holidays and such. Back on Father’s Day/2021 it had a $400 discount
at the risk of opening my mouth and being wrong again , last I heard they were all sold and not going to be produced any more.
There is another source in Canada now, and they also offer a trans mount along with OE diff support for the PPF delete. Something different on this kit is it includes a bellhousing rather than adapter. However, the counter to that is you have to use their modified Z car flywheel with a Z car, Tilton, or OS Giken Z car clutch rather than the RX7 flywheel/clutch. Not cheap either, but look for it to be on sale on certain holidays and such. Back on Father’s Day/2021 it had a $400 discount
I think Sikky also offers a trans mount for CD009 in an FD3.
.
I Really hope there not sold out and making them. I'm building a track FC and after a lot of thinking I decided this kit makes the most sense for my situation and the off chance I do break a trans way the track.... I wouldn't have to cut a bell housing.
imma wait on @Careless and see what's up.
I Really hope there not sold out and making them. I'm building a track FC and after a lot of thinking I decided this kit makes the most sense for my situation and the off chance I do break a trans way the track.... I wouldn't have to cut a bell housing.
imma wait on @Careless and see what's up.
you do need to cut the bell housing to fit the starter motor and starter motor adapter on the side of the trans.
you do need to cut the bell housing to fit the starter motor and starter motor adapter on the side of the trans.
I currently don't have any kits in stock.
I understand there's a little cutting, is there a possibility of any being made within the next 5 months? What are my options for getting your kit? I would really like one...
was trying to sell one about 5 months ago, but no takers so I bought a new 370Z trans part# 320B0-1EA0A and am a month or two away from putting them in an RX8 chassis.
was trying to sell one about 5 months ago, but no takers so I bought a new 370Z trans part# 320B0-1EA0A and am a month or two away from putting them in an RX8 chassis.
Daaang are you still thinking about selling it? I have been tryna get on here for a minute now but in the past every time I tried commenting or messaging it wouldn't let me. Maybe there was some probation period or something
one without the other makes no sense and you already have the trans, only way that could work is for you to buy the Fisch kit and we swap … and not sure that makes sense over you just buying it for yourself.
I see pros and cons for both kits, but am not married to one over the other. It might save me from getting my knuckles wrapped by Careless’ ruler again though
btw, edited my post above; looks like Fisch dropped the FD OE diff support kit for a PPF delete. I only see the trans mount brace on there now.
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If I bought the fisch kit wouldn't I just keep it 😅
wouldn't it make more sense for me to pay you for you kit and add a few bucks on top?
But yea I already have my trans
I was half asleep not really thinking about it too much, but no; it makes no sense for me to do that and then have to go buy a new Z-car clutch and probably other additional expenses out of pocket to swap over to that kit instead.
I understand there's a little cutting, is there a possibility of any being made within the next 5 months? What are my options for getting your kit? I would really like one...
Not in a position to say at this point. There may be someone selling in the marketplace?
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
I see pros and cons for both kits, but am not married to one over the other. It might save me from getting my knuckles wrapped by Careless’ ruler again though
I don't disagree with you there, each kit has a price point and a target market, and some require a lot more additional stuff.
However, I would appreciate if discussions about other products were done in their own thread. I don't think that's too much to ask, considering this thread is specific to this item.
Originally Posted by TeamRX8
...then have to go buy a new Z-car clutch and probably other additional expenses out of pocket to swap over to that kit instead.
That's why a lot of people bought this kit, and it was part of the original design criteria and priced accordingly, if not too low to make profit at this point.
06-05-21, 08:41 PM
, last I heard they were all sold and not going to be produced any more.