Sam

I would like to introduce my intercooling idea.

(puts flame suit on)

It's kinda of basic/elementary but it would work very nice if you could figure it out. What I am pondering is using a type of compressed gas( propane or nitrious oxide or the like) that when it is contained underpressure its super cold. like having a intercooler In a propane capsule. If you could design a strong enough intercooler core to handle the tremendous pressure these gases are contained at. you easily have like -50 degree charged air flowing into your engine (air cant be too cold can it?). i'm sure this has been experimented with but I would like to talk about it. I dont know an extensive amout about intercooling. but just fathom if you could make a strong core, possibly forged steel or up to titainium. You could have a small, mount it wherever you want, king of intercoolers.

RETed

Why not reroute your AC freon through the IC?
That's been done before...


-Ted

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

To do it you would have to use a air to water core if you wanted to keep it cheap and not have to fab anything. But to stop the IC from turning into A/C for the outside world you would have to insulate it. Adiabatic baby.

The thing is that I have heard that rotorys don’t care much for air that is significantly lower than freezing for some reason, I think it had something to do with the limitations of the IAT sensor or something.

Sam

would you have to run the a/c for this to work? or just like shoot a couple bottles of freon into a tank? If you have to run the a/c I doubt if power would be a boost due to a/c saping engine power. I do belive propane or no2 would make a significantly colder charge air temp then freon.

Sam

I dont belive this would be an issue since every 10 degrees you lower air intake temp. engine Power is increased 1% ( not alot but if you got it from 70f to -30f you would have increased engine performance by 10%)

that would would be outstanding.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Yes you would have to run the compressor to make the R12 or R134a work as a cooling agent.

Yes it would make more sense to use compressed CO2 as a cooling agent if you were drag racing and just wanted every little bit out of a system.

For me it is much more important to have my A/C than eak out every HP avalible

On thing that it could possibly be a good for if you didn’t want your AC anyway, is get rid of heat soak if that was an issue for you.

Sam

a/c will not be equipped on my car. What temp does compressed co2(not no2) stay at?

In my earlier post I ment it would *not* be an issue

maxcooper

I'm no expert, but I don't think anything stays cold. Unelss you have something to pump the heat out (like an AC compressor), the "coldness" will run out eventually. And probably pretty quickly.

-Max

LT1-7

Reading your post leads me to believe you think CO2 is always cold in a compressed state. Co2 only gets cold when it is being uncompressed, a good example would be a pellet gun. Just wanted to clear that up in case that's what you were thinking.

Also if you were to build an intercooler with the deisgn like a liquid to air ic, CO2 would not be your best bet. Compressed CO2 comes in gas form and pretty much only cools whatever is in front of where it is being sprayed. Now if you were to use N20, R12 or R134a they come in liquid form. Spraying liquid into a liquid to air core would get you way lower temps.

Sam

I thought it wasn't, but not entirely sure, now I do.

Yes N20 would be a liquid in its compressed state and would chill a Intercooler quite nicely. What Psi is N20 stored at?

Sam

Neither am I, can anyone explain. like say you have N20 in a liquid to air intercooler. If the core could withstand the pressure. then would you have to use a sort of pump the keep this liquid chilly? or since it is contained within a core, It can keep its temperature due to the fact that its underpressure and will always be chily underpressure.

LT1-7

Even if the core can withstand the pressures, no it will not stay cold. Nothing can stay cold unless some other energy is being released or given.

Sam

how would one go about releasing that energy?

wwilliam54

uncompressing it

a N2O sprayer on your IC is the best bet and works well

Sam

does anyone make sprayer kits?

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Yes, but it is relatively easy to match the craftsmanship of a production kit if you are even remotely mechanically inclined.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

To make it work you have to take the compressed liquid and let it expand in the AtoW IC in the water portion of the IC. To do this essentially you would be venting the cooling agent to the atmosphere, so there would be no issue with the core being able to withstand the pressure. No pump would be necessary because the pressure differential will cause the fluid to move through the core as it expands to a vaporized state cooling the entire core as the air moves through it.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Not necessarily, to run it through a core would be much more efficient and would require much less media to cause the same effective amount of cooling. you would need a smaller tank and would have to fill it less. just make sure you tune the map for a condition that is safe when the CO2 is not present.
Also running it through a core will allow you to vent it however you wish without it finding its way back into your intake track because it is just venting into your engine compartment, and negating the effect of causing more HP from cooler temps.

Sam

good info man

wwilliam54

but being able to function as a regular IC when your out of media is way more important

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, but just because it is a WtoA IC doesn’t automatically make the core to small for a usable AtoA IC, they make any size core you can afford that will easily take you out of an effective cooling range from size.

Regardless there are better ways to deliver a cooling agent for cooling purposes, than effectively mounting a shower head infront of your IC. Just throwing out ideas from a ideological point of view.

SPOautos

The problem with most any form besides a/a is that you need to set up an additional heat exchanger to get the heat out of your media. The only way your media can cool is by absorbing all the heat, you have to set up a heat exchanger to release the heat from your media so that it can continue to cool.

With water you can absorb 4x more heat than with air. This is great untill your eventually heat the water up to hot and it no longer cools. You have to use a heat exchanger to relieve the heat and this is where the problem comes in. To be most effectice the heat dissapation area of your heat exch needs to be around 4x larger than it does for IC core. The reason is while water absorbs 4x more heat that air does when you try to exchange the heat back into the air via the heat exchanger it takes 4x more air to get it all out.

There is a very fine balancing act between the size of the IC core, how many BTU/minute your media can hold with no temp change, and having a heat exchanger than can release the rest of the BTU's. The first thing you need to find out is how many BTU's you need to remove from the charge air to get it back to ambient. I've figured that at around 18psi of boost its very close to 4000btu/minute.

STEPHEN

Barwick

because with the 1970's A/C chemicals if the intercooler cracked and they got into the intake charge it'd produce toxic gas.

So just use the newer chemicals (like the lightning) and have a supercooled intercooler system.

Barwick

If you were drag racing you should just use the A/C to cool a 1 or 2 gallon tank filled with a mixture of water/antifreeze down to minus 30 farenheit before every run, then pump that across your air/liquid intercooler for the 10 second run.