penko

I was thinking of putting a front mount i/c in my t2 and i have a few questions.
How much flow does the stock unit has in cfm
Am i in for for a lot of turbo lag with the front mont
Can i install it with my stock front bumper
What kind of hp benefits should i get froim this

My mods are 3inch custom exhaust,hks ssqbov,tilton clutch, jspec ported turbo, cold intake , walbro ,680cc secondaries,safc,
manual boost control,a/f gauge, hks boost gauge.
My goal is to have a reliable car boosting 15-18psi please
correct me if i'm wrong and tell me what am i missing beside the egt gauge ,wich i'm gonna buy in a near future.
thanks.

13BAce

I never noticed much lag due to the FMIC. All of the kits can be used with ther stock front bumper. A custome kit can also be made. When I put a Greddy FMIC on my 87 TII running 7 PSI I noticed a big increase in power at the same boost level.

If you're using the stock turbo then you shouldn't really run more than 13-14 PSI. If you want 18 PSI you'll need something better.

Evil Aviator

The cfm rating on intercoolers is really more of a pressure drop rating. The Spearco catalog explains how to choose an intercooler, and gives you a nice performance chart on most of their cores. Even if you are not interested in a Spearco IC, the catalog is still a good reference. The "All About Intercooling" book is OK, but I think that you will learn plenty with just the catalog.
http://www.spearcointercoolers.com/

I don't have any stats on the stock IC, but it appears to have low efficiency and a relatively low pressure drop. Also, the scoop is in a lousy location. An FMIC will probably cause a larger pressure drop, but the better efficiency should make up for it. A friend of mine installed a Starion FMIC, and even with all that plumbing, the car still ran faster.

The increased lag of an FMIC will probably only be a couple tenths of a second, depending on how large the FMIC is. You can find info on how to compute the FMIC-induced lag as well as the estimated HP increase with formulas given in Corky Bell's Maximum Boost book.

The stock radiator is pretty lame, and sticking an FMIC in front of it won't help. You may want to replace it with a nice aluminum racing unit with aluminum end tanks.

13BAce

I bought the Mazdacomp radiator from SR Motorsports, and it works well with my FMIC, but it wasn't a bolt in. If anyone is looking for something that's easier to fit I would suggest getting a generic Griffin or the Fluidyne. The Griffin will be alot cheaper and should work just as well.

Evil, what kind of fan are you going to use for the 20B? I've never found an electric fan that worked well.

Evil Aviator

A custom Griffin is about the same price as the other non-custom performance radiators. The only problem is that you need to measure everything yourself, make your own mounting tabs, etc. I think that the custom Griffin is the best radiator on the market, but if you don't want to go through all that trouble, then a good drop-in unit would be better.

I have two Spal 13" puller fans on back-order. I'm not sure if I am on the right track, but I calculated the flow rates of different electric fans, weighing the cfm and area evenly in the calculation to come up with a ft/min flow rate. Each Spal 13" is rated at 1710cfm max flow rate, and I estimated the effective blade area by subtracting the motor area from the total blade diameter area to get about 117 sq in. So, 1710cfm over 117 sq in = 176 ft/min flow rate. Not only was this the highest of any fan that I calculated, but I have room for two of them behind my radiator. I would imagine that a large fan with a shroud would be nice, but I don't have any room for a shroud. Again, I'm not sure if my math reasoning is valid, but this is the best method I could think of without buying and testing every fan on the planet.
http://www.godmanhiperformance.com/i...ctures/13a.jpg

Rx7DoYLe

Another good investment would be to looks for a J&S knock sensor.....could save your motor's life. Although i think J&S changed their name to something else, i will have to find out.

13BAce

The Spal fans are supposed to be good. I'm surprised that you could fit 2 13" fans in there. I've heard that the single fan at http://www.vintageair.com/accessories/page66.htm is good, but I've never tried it. It supposedly flows 3500 cfm.

Evil Aviator

My Griffin radiator is 26 3/8" wide, which means that the 13" Spals will have about 1/2" overlap on each side. A big advantage in using two fans is that the thickest part of the fans (motor) will be offset from the engine pulleys, which allows for thicker fans. The 18" Vintage Air fan looks nice, but it is too thick to wedge between my radiator and 20B. Besides, my radiator core is only 13" tall, and the dual 13" Spals will give me more cfm per radiator core surface area.

13BAce

I was wondering how you could fit 2 13" fans in there. I know that the stock radiator core is about 19"x23". Let us know how it works out.

Evil Aviator

Well, the 26 3/8 x 3 x 16" radiator is already mounted in the car, so that's not a problem. The frame rails behind the radiator are 29" wide where the fans would mount, although they taper to about 28" wide where the radiator itself is mounted, and down to about 27" at the very front of the car. The only fitting problems that I can imagine would be interference with coolant and oil lines. I'll shoot you a picture once I get the fans mounted, but here is a pic of the radiator 6 months ago:
http://www.rx-7.cc/edgar/auto/rx-7pi...s/PIC00005.jpg

13BAce

Nice.

Evil Aviator

I have the fans now. They weigh a ton, but they certainly move some air! Hehehe, my friends are joking that the car could be driven around town on the fan thrust alone. OK, well maybe not, but the 3420 cfm total flow rate is enough to make this helicopter pilot feel more at home. Now, if my RX-7 could only crank out 3,400 hp like the Blackhawk...

I'm thinking about installing a 1" - 1.25" thick custom composite fan shroud between the fans and the radiator. As you can see from the pics on this link, the fans fit pretty well. Note how the dual fans clear the pulleys, while a large single center-mounted fan would not.

http://www.geocities.com/mcgumrapper/cooling

13BAce

Looking good. You might as well try the shroud since the car isn't running yet.

13BAce

I believe your RX-7 is being built to stay on the ground, right?

Evil Aviator

I'm going for a 240mph top speed if I can find the right gearing. If I screw up the aerodynamics that I have planned for the car in Phase II, then I will most certainly log a couple seconds of flight time, followed thereafter by a very expensive helicopter ride to the hospital.

13BAce

240 mph? I'd want to see that! You could teach me how to fly your helicopter, and I'll be on standby just in case.

Evil Aviator

Hehehe, the Huey only goes 143, and the Blackhawk only goes 222, so you would never keep up without a tail wind.

13BAce

Well, we could always build a "special" helicopter.

Evil Aviator

Hehehe, it would have to be a compound helicopter to go that fast. The problem is, nobody has been successful at making a production compound helicopter yet. Hmm, maybe we could have some of the others on the forum make parts like CF body panels and SS manifolds? We could install two turbocharged PP Hurley 10-rotor engines, or something. Geez, I've spent enough time and $ on my car so far, and have had numerous custom parts made, so I guess that a helicopter wouldn't make much difference at this point. OK, I guess this moves the completion date of my car to somewhere around the year 2205.

BTW, do you have Mr. Akimoto's email address? I was wondering if he would lend me a couple million dollars?

http://www.kulikovair.com/Compound.htm

13BAce

Sounds like a plan. I call the foreman job. I want to get paid for standing around, since I have so much practice.

I bet flying something like that would be tough.

Evil Aviator

Yeah, I guess I need to get used to civilian life now. The Army does it the other way around - a whole bunch of people stand around while one person does the work.

Flying is EZ; the tough part is landing.

13BAce

That helicopter reminds me of the Harrier. I've heard that thing is tough to get off the ground and land.

Crusader_9x

ever seen true lies? hell if i get to smash a cop car i will try it any day of the week!