Sammymatik

I was looking at these pics of an intake mannifold for a Honda:

link to advanced induction research:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...icial%26sa%3DN

I've been working with fiber plastics, and more lately computer 3d design. I know I could get some molds made for a CF intake mannifold, but would it be worth the benefits? (weight, Heat transfer, tuning, and style)

Below are a few sketch renders. Any input on this idea? Any input on what would make for a good intake? I'm just throwing this out there...



Quick animated render: https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...hmentid=160525

CCarlisi

What program are you using?

T04Eneedy

im pretty sure u would want a plenum of some sort on it<-----not an expert tho

also im curious if anyone has looked at the rx8 intake manifold and seen how its upper intake slopes upwards to make the radius for the turn to the lower intake manifold larger or maybe they did it for another reason?<--------again not an expert

ne-ways ill beta test it for u if u'd like lol

Sammymatik

Well those renders are just the tests I did to make sure that autocad read the DXF properly, and it does.

I could make just about any shape, However I'm not sure what shape would be good? I read longer runners is good for low end, and I would definately want the shape to increase velocity by tapering slightly smaller toward the engine.



I haven't seen a good shot of the RX8 intake, I'll look for that.

and I'm using blender for the rendering, and i'll go to autocad when Im ready to get a piece fabricated. honestly though, those images took me about 20min to create.

GUITARJUNKIE28

there's a plenum there...it's just uber-tiny

i think the problem with building production manifolds is the stock manifold works great for like 99% of all applications. so your market is limited *basically* to serious racers... racers that will all have their personal preference for what rpm they wish to peak at, plenum and runner size, runner length, then side, or peripheral ports, etc...

although it's a great idea, i think you'll end up spending a LOT more money than you'd potentially make.

you can always do what gz or excessive (whoever did it), and fix the bugs with the stock LIM. THEN you can make it out of carbon fiber, and i'm sure you'd have a decent market for sales. i'd probably buy one.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Build me one for a p-port and I'll pay handsomely.

GUITARJUNKIE28

i got some pipe and a hack saw.

that's about all you need for a pp manifold

tonybcrazy

I have been wanting to make a composite manifold for awhile but after learning some **** in my composites class I dont know how long one would last. From what I have learned carbon epoxy laminants are only stable up to around 200F. I want to take some measurements of heat on the engine but I think the mainfold gets to hot and if its made out of CF it will lose all its strength and start cracking.

Kenku

How hot the epoxy is stable to depends on the epoxy and at what temperature it's cured at. With the right epoxies, there's no reason it wouldn't work fine. Of course, then you get into all the problems of properly heating things...

Sammymatik

you mean the expansion rates of aluminum vs CF?

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

It's for a turbo car. We need something that's air tight. My TIG skilz still haven't developed at the rate of my imagination so I need some help. And damn, CF is just too trick.

GUITARJUNKIE28

HAHAHAHAH!!! i've got the same problem.

i'll build you a manifold for free--just to see how well i can do it. i just can't be held responsible for the result

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

someone get all the calculations done... i work at a fabrication shop. i've been welding for a long time and can weld just about anything so do the brain work and i'll apply the technique!

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Thanks for the offers guys! We won't have the housings back from the machine shop for another week or so and with all our other projects going on it will be a while before the engine is assembled and I can know exactly what we need. I'll be sure to post up when we know something more.

tonybcrazy

The heat you raise a composite to while curing is strengthening like a heat treat it is just ensuring that the resin is getting hot enough to cure atleast 95%. Eposy resins are only good up to short term exposures of 200F. Bismaleimide resins will get you up to 350F but the price of the resin goes up substantially and you would need an oven and vacuum bag set up atleast but an autoclave would net better results. Polyimide resins are the most heat worthy allowing between 500-600F but are very expensive and very hard to use. With a rotary and a turbo good luck not exposing the manifolds to those temps eventually.

Also putting aluminum bits in a CF layup is a big problem. With the addition of a little moisture you have a battery and a galvanic reaction will start eating away the metal.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

how about simply making it out of metal ... where are my calculations?!?!?! i needed these YESTERDAY!!!

Sammymatik

Well....

Working on it

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

if anyones interested heres a link to a guy that created a nice manifold...

https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/intake-manifold-pics-my-single-fd-project-518205/

i'll be using his basic design and making it better... that is if he gives me the details lol

Sammymatik

That does look nice.

I just now found a CAD program that seems more friendly to 3D design, I'm gonna try playing around with some shapes, and then see if I can do some CFD testing in the computer.

It's good to be ambitous right?

2a+RoN

I actually was originally planning on doing my manifold out of carbon fibre. I started to build a clay mold to take a negative off that utilized fully tapered runners, but it seemed as though it was going to take too much effort do all the composite work at the time, so I settled for making the steel one. I think I may follow through with my original plans some day, but I'm content w/ the steel one for the time being.

Sammymatik

yeah I've tried working with foam... that takes a lot of time and you can never really get it perfect....

Computers have gotten contiually better over the years, and the new cad programs are 3D based (I can't work well with pure drafting) so I'm working in the computer first. Just some prototyping, If I can yield any worth while design I can flow test them virtually.

If that works at all then I can have them printed, in negative for a mold...

I'd be lucky to get that far, but I guess with the marvels of technology on my side it can't hurt to try.

Besides... it sure beats watching TV!

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

sammy get any info on on cfm levels on your computer?

Sammymatik

Set the computer aside for a bit...

I usualy work in spurts on things. Now that the weather is getting better I'll be able to continue on my hood mold. I've also got a car that need to be put back together.

When I do come up with any useful computer design info I'll be sure to make a post.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

I have to plug mine as well:

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/latest-pics-status-my-turbo-na-bridgeport-project-project-tina-498432/

Few calculations past basic runner length, mostly "seat of the pants" engineering...

Sammymatik

that intake looks great.

I've seen your thread before. i think that the intake you made would probably be a lot simpler to recreate in a CAD than a fiber type intake. Then again I'm not trained in CAD.

But I do think for an NA setup that working some magic with intake tuning is definately the way to go. But really the key would probably be to do something like the varible length runners like the S5's have.

Does anyone know how that system operates? Does it use a set of butterfly type flaps to redirect airflow?

Anyway..... Good work!