chachidu

I did a search and didnt really know what to look for. I have bridgestone s-02 tires. Pretty nice (except for rears are only 225 width). anyway, I am going drag racing friday and I wanna know if I should do a burnout before running. I heard on normal tires that actually makes them more slippery because the rubber melts and becomes hard like plastic...besides a nice show I wouldnt wanna ruin my 60ft times. Besides that, I had a perfect launch the other day...no wheel hop and for some reason the wheels spun but didnt make any noise...like a brushing sound. But anyway, so should I burn out before or not. How do people burn out. I have tried to find info on this but to no avail. Do you dump the clutch at a high RPM and then tap the brake until the front wheels stop?

Megaspeed7

Seriously I have made probably 75 passes on the strip and I can tell you that no matter what tire you run you should do a healthy burnout (unless you are 4wd cause you might break a transfer case - been there done that).
Here's how you do it:
1. Air tires down to 15-17 psi
2. Pull the ABS fuse (where applicable, you will look stupid with it on)
3. pull up through the water box and get the back tires in the water
4. give the tires a one revolution spin to get them wet
5. Pull Forward about 5 feet to get out of water box.
6. rev the car up to 6k rpms and dump the clutch but QUICKLY mash the brakes to sit and power brake (5-10 secs depending. Do it till you see a decent amount of smoke and then let off of the brake, stay on the gas an move forward about 5 feet then drop the revs to about 4k and then nail it again to see if they hook - They will hit HARD.
7. Line up and get ready to drop the clutch from 6 or 7k rpms depending on your setup
8. Sometimes if your car hooks too hard and you don't have a big enough turbo (and sometimes too big of one can do this) you might want to lag the clutch engagement just a little to get moving without bog.

There it is take it from me I ran 1.7 60' on 225 nitto 450 street extremes in my TII. Also, you might wanna make some more bracing for the rearend mount. I have broken the damn front mount 5 times and actually ended up ripping the subfram so I am currently building a better support from up in the tunnel.
Oh yeah I also won the burnout contest at the local import faceoff!

Good Luck,
Patrick Harris

peejay

There are other ways to do a burnout that aren't as difficult as you describe... if you can heel-toe downshift then you can three-pedal a burnout - hold the brake and work the throttle with the right foot at the same time, and work the clutch with left foot.

MOST street tires do not like being heated up a lot - they turn "greasy" and lose traction. Most Goodyears love burnouts, though, which is why I use them even though they're rather expensive. But all tires will benefit from a burnout to clean debris from the tread and scuff the surface. To not do a burnout is just asking for traction problems!

Crusader_9x

if you have street radials, the kind with metal and other layers of **** in there then only air them down about 5 psi form what they are now. since they are so stiff in the sidewalls if you tak ethem down to 15-17 psi then only the sides of the tire hit the ground and no the middle. but if you have some sort of street/drag tire then dont listen to me. but if you have just high performance street tires then all u got to do is rev it up, drop it and go for the brake. if you got a tII then it will sit there and burn but every na i have seen will die out. and keep in mind if you do have radials you only need to do it for a fw seconds, you dont need to try and smoke out the place.

peejay

Tire pressure is all part of tuning! It totally depends on your SETUP. One should never go under 15psi with any kind of radial (risk of tire coming off of the rim bead) but for example after much experimentation I found 20psi to be optimal FOR ME. That of course is my tires on my rims with my suspension setup with my engine with my clutch with my flywheel with my gearing and with my driving style - any and all of these will alter what the best tire pressure is!

I have two videos on my website, one is a minute-long run including burnout and the other is a short one detailing how I three-pedal a burnout. http://www.geocities.com/izzmus/about.html has the minute long video and http://www.geocities.com/izzmus/burnout.html has the short burnout clip. Who says N/As can't do burnouts?

Get them soon if you want them because I'll be rotating them off soon in favor of another clip...

PaulC

It depends on your tires. The kuhmos I had on my 87 sport ran best at 18-20psi. the goodyears my firebird came with ran best at 28-30psi. the Nittos I have now on it run best at 22-24psi. you can go too soft very easy especially on radials. bia plys which most slicks like the ET's are a whole differnt critter to drive on. so you should practice.

but always do a good burn out.

RETed

I've be told the opposite.
You're running pretty pricey tires - why are you just burning your money up in tire smoke?&nbsp Hell, give me the money if you're going to waste them!

I had a discussion on this with a very successful local drag (bracket racer).&nbsp He claims burnouts with street tires is a waste of time and money.&nbsp Street tires are designed to keep cool.&nbsp The amount of time it take for you to smoke them and then roll to the line is enough to drop the temps out of optimum.&nbsp If you generate enough heat to melt the rubber on the street tire, you've also could've damaged them internally.&nbsp Slicks are designed for burnouts not street tires.&nbsp If you're dragging with street tires, you're not a serious drag racer - why you looking for the 0.1-0.2 possible gain?&nbsp BTW, this guy used to run a 10-second 7M-GTE MkIII Supra YEARS ago - I trust his experience and knowledge.

I agree tire pressures should be dropped a little.&nbsp Hell, I get into arguments about this with a pretty experienced drag racer in IRC (rizz you in here?) - his argument is that lower tire pressure (in a street tire) degrade tire contact patch.&nbsp He claims reduced tire pretty just hurts traction.

Burn outs with street tires - no.&nbsp Reduce rear tire pressure - yes.


-Ted

Megaspeed7

In my experience (and everyone I have ever seen at the track) burning out def. makes street tires hook better. Whoever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about. After every pass at the track when I run the street tires the tires contain rubber patches on them that I have picked up from the track itself. So if you don't heat your tires up to a high enough temperature you won't get to the proper vulcanizing temperature to STICK to the layer of rubber on the track. Yes if you burnout for too long of a time street tires will become very GREASY (this takes quite some time on HARD rubber street tires). Soft rubber type drag tires actually require MUCH less of a burnout to heat them up to vulcanize on the track. And you would be surprised to see how much more of a difference that this makes at the track. For example I dropped my 60' time from a 2.2 down to a 1.8 just by dropping air pressure and doing a healthy burnout (on 225 nitto 450 extreme's) and my 1/4 time dropped by over .7 seconds! its nice going from a 14.0 to a 13.3 just from those simple changes. Why don't you go to the track on do your own research and let us know what you find.
Oh and by the way, I have a set of nitto DR's on my stock wheels for the track - I guess you could call me a "serious" drag racer. In my opinion, the DR's only make that much of a difference on the street where you don't have a fresh layer of rubber to start with.

Patrick

RETed

I've run over 100 passes with my FC, running anything from 16's to a fastest 13.447 @ 105.00 - this on a very inconsistent (read:&nbsp slippery) track on the island of Oahu in Hawaii.&nbsp I have run mostly on Nitto NT-555R drag radials and have run them for most of those runs.&nbsp I have run them from anywhere from 40psi down to 18psi.&nbsp I have run a fastest 2.143 60' time which is crappy considering I was unaware of the rear camber problem with an extreme drop on these FC's.&nbsp I've run anywhere from a 10-second water box smoke fest to a split second dry hop just to clear the tires.&nbsp I have found most consistency (not quickest) 60' times have nothing to do with how long I smoke the rear tires.&nbsp The best gains I've got was accidently dialing my Tokico Illuminas to their softest settings, aiding weight transfer on the launch.&nbsp Now, before you get your panties in a bunch, I have been lectured on trying to get these tires very hot, as they hook up a lot better when brake-standed for a good 30 seconds.&nbsp I wasn't about to put my car through this abuse.&nbsp The jury not in yet on full data, but it was leaning heavily on independence of the type of burn-out length in my book.

Now, I realize that this isn't the best set of data, but it's the closest I've got.

Like I said before, I trust a guy who has been doing this longer than you've been driving.


-Ted

Ohseyun

I agree with what both of you are saying. Burning out your street tire does make a difference, only to a certain point. Burning it too long is a no no. But honestly, i think everyone should be doing burn outs! What can i say, you'll look hella tight doing it!

peejay

It depends on what kind of tires you have! (what tread compound)

True MOST street tires will only get worse as they heat up. SOME tires work better when heated - like Goodyears. I love Goodyears for this reason ONLY. Excellent drag tires.

Note that with all tires you do need to at least spin them mildly to get any water, crud, and track debris off of them, even if you only scuff them.

Megaspeed7

Please answer me this then...
Why would ANY high performance tire manufacturer make the tires grip LESS when heated?? Even in Road racing running high performance street tires you will notice how much better tires will stick after a lap to get them hot. As I said before, the softer race compund tires heat up FASTER and get to the "sticky" range much quicker than any hard compund street tire. The only downfall to the race tires is that the life drops drastically. Here's another example (I know validity on this one is kind of obscure). Go play Gran Turismo and buy a set of hard tires and run on them while watching the tire gauge specifically note the time to heat up and the differences from cold - hot. Now go buy the best damn softest race tires they got and watch the gauge again, I guarantee you will see the trend that I am talking about.
I know I am talking about road racing, but the tire gripping makes no differentiation BTW the two.

REted, I thought you told me that you didn't have many passes under your belt?
And lastly, I don't care how long the guy has been drag racing or what he does. He doesn't have an RX-7 and all of us do. You learn the tricks of the track as well as the car. His method might not apply to lighter, less torquy cars.

Patrick

Megaspeed7

If you are only getting a 2.1 60' on DR's then I think its not your fault but the track you race at. Thats about what my car will run on the street with my DR's on and no burnout. If you could come run at some of our local tracks in Louisiana you would be AMAZED to how much better they hook than almost anyplace. People literally come from further away locations near other shittier tracks to race at my local track. Good luck next time.
Patrick

peejay

All I know is, I was consistently pulling 2.4-2.7 60' times before I started doing decent burnouts. Afterwards, a constant string of 2.1-2.2. Not bad for 185/70 economy tires (not D/Rs) and an open diff and bogging big-time at 30'.

RETed

You are not obviously reading my replies correctly, or you have a problem with applying situations properly.&nbsp How can you compare a drag racing situation to a road racing situation?&nbsp You're trying to compare a one-shot deal with a significant amount of "downtime" in between to another situation where the tire is constantly loaded.

Now that explains everything.&nbsp I'm trying to argue real world situations with a video game junkie.&nbsp Boy, this does sound familiar?


Maybe you need to take some seminars in tire dynamics?&nbsp Road racing presents a lot of side loading on the tire carcass - something drag racing does NOT do.&nbsp Why the hell am I arguing with someone who presents GT as a valid situation...


Boy, this sounds familiar too.&nbsp I'm sorry dude...trying to argue GT is making you look stupid.&nbsp I'm just sticking to what I think is an expert on the subject is over your GT-back arguments.&nbsp My addtions to this thread stops here, since you've obvious turned this into another personal attack (gee, didn't this happen before?) which proves nothing more than you having a superior track - something at this point in my life I have no control over.


-Ted

vosko

iTrader: (4)

ummm i think doing burnouts helps. hell i got a 1.9 60ft on street tires my fastest time in my TII is 13.7 @100 mph. i like doing burnouts at the track atleast i can't get a ticket afterwards my tires feel MUCH STICKIER almost gummy this is just my personal experience

Megaspeed7

The point on the matter was that high performance street tires are DESIGNED to be stickier when they get hotter NO MATTER WHAT the application! Whether you road race or drag race it doesn't matter, hotter tires STICK BETTER! That was the analogy I was trying to get you to see, but I guess with your Myopic mindset it can be hard to admit you may be wrong. BTW, that last sentance was the first "personal attack" on you. I guess you just read my post with a bitter taste in your mouth. Thanks for the support Vosko, I understand you do some draggin, please give us a finite example of some runs when you don't burnout vs. Burning out?
Patrick

jmseven

From experience on Dunlops, burnouts do help.....You actually accumulate the rubber marbles from other cars. The rubber becomes more compliant. It does help your 60ft times.....

vosko

iTrader: (4)

in my 89 GTU previous best was 16.2 @ 85mph. after doing pro stock style burnout ran a 15.987 !

Felix Wankel

Just experiment and see. There are so many variables (tire brand, size, compound, pressure, your clutch, driving skill, track workers being stingy with the VHT, etc.) that no one that isn't at the track at that particular time can help you.

The tires on the back of my TII are rock hard (400 treadwear) regardless of what I do to them, so I just spin them a bit to clean the junk off them from the waterbox. It pulled a string of 2.1s on a pitifully prepped redneck track on an 90+ degree day.

93redFD

I have goodyear gt+4 and they are shity, I would have replaced them by now but Im doing the engine instead..How long do you heat them up(until the smoke gets to the windows??).. I will try it the next time I go to the pitifully redneck track.Im also going to do a burnout half way down the track for giggles!!

peejay

If the smoke gets to the windows, that's too long.

I'm working on getting more webspace... check my website for a couple videos, just as a general idea.

93redFD

whats the website???

peejay

Click "www" under my post.

chachidu

So I went to the track the other day (if you dont remember I live in italy) and nobody does burnouts here. Dumbasses dont even know real drag racing. One Lancia Delta Integrale ran 9.4 on a gas (hydrogen???) engine...anyway, I didnt wanna burn out because they werent wetting the track. My best time was a 14.19 with 60' time of 2.155. The "track" is actually a small airport's runway...the asphalt is the white bumpy type of cement...seams like it will destroy my tires if I do a burnout without water. Plus I got a lot of wheel hop on my launches. I have bridgestone s-02s...expensive to replace but considering my launches were NOTHING but peeling out all through first gear I will burn out next time. Here are my new questions:

1) Which is the ABS fuse to remove. One is a big fuse which I am sure should be removed and then there is a nother normal style 10 or 20 watt yellow fuse. Should I remove both?

2) Is a burnout bad on the rear brakes? What about the rear suspension assembly and transaxle? This is assuming without wheelhop...I have heard wheel hop is terrible for the rear section, axle, and transmision

Thanks for the replies. It just rained so I think i wanna go try to burnout somwhere