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FC track brakes?

Old 06-04-05, 03:52 PM
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FC track brakes?

Im trying to get an idea of new brakes to put on my 1990 GTUs. I want to go all around with a real decent set that will be suitable for track events. Maybe something in the middle of the road price range. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Jake
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Old 06-04-05, 07:59 PM
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stock components in new or very good condition and a good quality brake pad with be perfect for track days and most "IT" type racing. the stock setup is very good and up to the task for most drivers. the key is to have all of the system working to its best. No need for giant calipers and rotors for hot lapping and open track events. Quality rotors and pads with good working calipers and master cylinder will be great.
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Old 06-05-05, 02:16 PM
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Excellent, everything else works really well, So im just going to purchase some nice pads for now. They need to be replaced, but thats about it, and my front calipers are new.
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Old 06-05-05, 05:18 PM
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Yep, good racing pads and cooling ducts should be fine. Also get some braided lines to replace your rubber ones. They work fine on an EProd car.
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Old 06-05-05, 05:23 PM
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the SS hoses should give you a bit of a better feel in the brake pedal, and good pads all around will make a big difference

when i did my brakes i found a set of drilled/slotted rotors for the fronts and used OEM rear discs with stock calipers (single pots) and i went with ceramic pads at all four corners

stopping power is way better now, but having good rubber is also key to stopping well

good luck
james
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Old 06-05-05, 05:55 PM
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Unless you're running in a very wet climate there is no reason to purchase drilled rotors. There is never a good reason to purchase slotted rotors. I'd purchase some new rotors, and reccomend a good set of pads and lines.

I'd read up on what everyone is offering and what type of racing you plan to be doing. For auto-x I'd reccomend a set of carbotech bobcats. I've got a set of them on my WRX and am very pleased with them and although they do eventually fade on track, they're great pads and provide enough shear force to lock up even 200+ degree azenis. So unless your rx-7 has ABS i'd stay away from the really adressive pads if the car doesn't have slicks and will be driven on the street as well. Otherwise you'll just be flatspotting tires left and right.
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Old 06-05-05, 09:27 PM
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Thanks for all the input, now its time to shop
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Old 06-06-05, 10:48 AM
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For open track, and other road course events, I'd suggest Carbotech XP1109, or XP1110. For AX I like EBC green. You cannot use EBCs at an opentrack, they'll last ~35-45 minutes. Carl
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Old 06-06-05, 12:41 PM
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I use Autozone rotors and Carbo XP1110s, no ducts (don't need it for fade, probably would help with longevity), and have no problems with brakes. If there's a weak area on the FC, brakes isn't the area (at least at stockish power levels)

PaulC
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Old 06-07-05, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Byck
For open track, and other road course events, I'd suggest Carbotech XP1109, or XP1110. For AX I like EBC green. You cannot use EBCs at an opentrack, they'll last ~35-45 minutes. Carl

EBC is junk from my experience. I had a pad crack in half within a week of usage. don't trust them.

carbotech
Porterfield
Performance friction
and some hawk pads

are all reputable.
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Old 06-07-05, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Silkworm
I use Autozone rotors and Carbo XP1110s, no ducts (don't need it for fade, probably would help with longevity), and have no problems with brakes. If there's a weak area on the FC, brakes isn't the area (at least at stockish power levels)

PaulC
What are the stockish power levels, by your opinion?

-Fanis
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Old 06-08-05, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by M's
EBC is junk from my experience. I had a pad crack in half within a week of usage. don't trust them.

carbotech
Porterfield
Performance friction
and some hawk pads

are all reputable.
EBC is certainly not a long lasting track pad, but for the street have used them on my MKIV Supra for ~5 years. I am very tough on brakes, and the Supra weighs in at ~3650. Zero dust, Zero fade(even on the track ~130-30 over and over), and they are bonded not riveted like Carbotech. I would not usually defend EBC, but quality has been there strong point for me. I have gone through ~8-10 sets on my Supra, and a couple on my oad race RX7. The dust is a big deal to me, as I have 3 piece Forgelines on my Supra, they are raw Forged aluminum, and dust is the pits. There is NO other pad that will perform at the level these will, and not dust. Carl
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Old 06-08-05, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Carl Byck
EBC is certainly not a long lasting track pad, but for the street have used them on my MKIV Supra for ~5 years. I am very tough on brakes, and the Supra weighs in at ~3650. Zero dust, Zero fade(even on the track ~130-30 over and over), and they are bonded not riveted like Carbotech. I would not usually defend EBC, but quality has been there strong point for me. I have gone through ~8-10 sets on my Supra, and a couple on my oad race RX7. The dust is a big deal to me, as I have 3 piece Forgelines on my Supra, they are raw Forged aluminum, and dust is the pits. There is NO other pad that will perform at the level these will, and not dust. Carl
I'm going to be trying the new yellow EBCs in two weekends.... will report back. That is if they ever come in though.
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Old 06-08-05, 10:42 PM
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Used to use Forodo DS-11s on my RX-3..
Run Hawk Blacks on the ITA for autocrosses
Run Hawk HP+ for Street on the ITA
Run Blues up front and Blacks in rear on the track and still need to proportion a bit out of the rear.
On the FCs?
Tried Blacks.. they caught fire on the 88 TII.
Used Blues on the 88TII, 86 Sport, and another 88 TII. All on track days and or more and would get the oil temps, and water temps up too high to keep pushing on short and or long track Sebring, after 10+ laps to continue at 10/10ths... Brakes in that condition? ZERO FADE... with no ducting other than stock.

Now.... Note on the Blues.... While thay are AWESOMELY confidence inspiring in full race trim.... they are rotor grinders on the street.. and or low temp applications... IE Autocross.
I tried to justify them by thinking I could drive hard enough on a autocross to justify them.. and had NOTICIBLE wear after a 5 pass autocross.
I used another set on the street before that and my rotors were horribly worn after 2 weeks going to and from work.. and I drive hard for those 3 miles each way..

Blues for other than race? Nope.
Race? Wouldnt use anything else. (at this point)
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Old 06-09-05, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by M's
Unless you're running in a very wet climate there is no reason to purchase drilled rotors. There is never a good reason to purchase slotted rotors. I'd purchase some new rotors, and reccomend a good set of pads and lines.

I agree about the drill rotors but I have read that slotted is the way to go. The slots help to keep the brake pad face “clean” and give more “bite”. I have slotted rotors on my car but have yet to drive it so I’m just going by what I have read.
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Old 06-09-05, 04:54 PM
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I thought the reason to drill or slot was to release gasses that build up between the pad and rotor. I've seen ricers with both done, thats like wearing a belt and suspenders together. One or the other works. Some rotors don't hold up well to drilling and you can go overboard, remove to much material, and end up losing the heat sink capacity of the piece. (Thats extreme but I've heard of being done to lighten a rotor) I just slot them.
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Old 06-09-05, 05:04 PM
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its my understanding that most modern rotors don't create gases that the pads can float on, thats like a hodrodder thing from the 1930s.
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Old 06-09-05, 10:17 PM
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you guys have been extremely helpful, thank you very much

After I get my first paycheck from my big new job itl be time to shop
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Old 06-09-05, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SPiN Racing
Used Blues on the 88TII, 86 Sport, and another 88 TII. All on track days and or more and would get the oil temps, and water temps up too high to keep pushing on short and or long track Sebring, after 10+ laps to continue at 10/10ths... Brakes in that condition? ZERO FADE... with no ducting other than stock.

Now.... Note on the Blues.... While thay are AWESOMELY confidence inspiring in full race trim.... they are rotor grinders on the street.. and or low temp applications... IE Autocross.
I tried to justify them by thinking I could drive hard enough on a autocross to justify them.. and had NOTICIBLE wear after a 5 pass autocross.
I used another set on the street before that and my rotors were horribly worn after 2 weeks going to and from work.. and I drive hard for those 3 miles each way..

Blues for other than race? Nope.
Race? Wouldnt use anything else. (at this point)
Bingo!
I totally agree!

It's also highly dependent on weight of chassis (I'm assuming close to stock), power (assuming about 150 to 180RWHP), and speeds attained or % braking on the track.
These are all variables that dictate which brake pad to go with.

If we're talking about a relatively "slow" track, then you *might* be able to get away with Hawk HP+ or Porterfield "R4"'s.
But, if we're talking triple digit speeds, Hawk Blues is about as best of a choice you can go for the price.

Like SPiN Racing said, do NOT try and street these pads other than on the track.
These things eat rotors for breakfast!



-Ted
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Old 06-10-05, 01:05 AM
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Hawk pads(all) are terrible on rotors, are not linear, and do not last for ****. Carbotech, Cobalt, and PF will school a similar car on Hawks all day long. Hawks are an old school(sorry Ted) alternative, and the disc manufacturers love all you guys that use them. The carbotechs work quite well hauling the FC down from 135-40 repeatedly. Combine that with Motul 5.1, or RBF600, and only a few tracks are too much for the stock brakes(Laguna, and Big Willow). In Norcal both Thunderhill, and Infineon are fine on stock brakes with XP10/5.1/ducts. Carl
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Old 06-10-05, 01:58 AM
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I used HP+'s on my '87 FC with great success.... no brake fade..... but I did get them to smoke after really pushing the car hard (n/a 140hp beast ). Zero ducting on the 4 piston caliper brakes with vented stock rotors.... but I'm sure the venting would've helped and been worth the effort. They dusted like a **** though which I was warned about.
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Old 06-10-05, 02:29 AM
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My car will probably be a caged 1150-1200kg car with 250-270fwhp, 16" wheels with 205/55R16 or 225/50R16 tires all around. Some street driving too.
What do you suggest?

-Fanis
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Old 06-10-05, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Carl Byck
Hawks are an old school(sorry Ted) alternative,
Sorry Carl, but I have to stand by my statements.
I guess you missed the part about "...for the price."

Personally, I *LOVE* Performance Friction stuff, but you're SOL trying to find applications for the FC - they higher grade pads are all discontinued.
The PF Z pads are CRAP.

The Hawks were still 1/3rd the cost of the PF's.
The Hawks are almost always cheaper than any of the alternatives out there.

Like I said...best for the money.

Side note, I went with Wilwood calipers JUST to get the use the PF's pad.
Gotta love "universal" applications - PF90's and 93's are under $100 per axle for my Wilwoods!


-Ted
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Old 06-10-05, 12:49 PM
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I have been through the fires of hell and back so far this year and last in brakes on my N/A FC.

If you think the tracks listed above are hard on brakes!? Two words for you.

ROAD AMERICA

I converted my GTU to the 4-piston 4 vented rotor setup and took it to road america with some low budget carbon kevlar pads. I was fighting fading brakes all day long. Along with numerous other brake system problems made for a couple of scary moments. I probably should have quit after the first session.

1. the pads were horrible. They reqired me to brake earlier and harder than I wanted to to slow up the car for turn 5 and turn 8. Thus if i didn't fade in 5 I was fading in 8. For most tracks i now use porterfield R4 brakes. But for braking tracks Hawk blues is the only thing that gives the friction I have needed that I have been able to find.

2. I cracked two REAR cross drilled rotors at road america. I will never run cross drilled again. I used crossdrilled on my truck to resist warping but they belong nowhere near a track car. Good cryogenically treated slotted rotors are a must. For a track like Road America you have to have the pad cleaning of slotted rotors. And for my money (because i like not having to buy rotors as often by half) cryogenically treated is far and away worth it.

3. If you have the original master cylinder in your FC i would not take it anywhere near the track. Its just too old.

4. Now use nothing but MOTUL RFB 600 in my track car. I cooked valvoline synthetic all day long at many tracks and had to bleed almost every session.

Mind you this is on an N/A i never broke 125mph.... But turn 5 at RA you go from about 125+ to 45 while traveling down hill. Then almost the same thing in turn 8. RA has lots of long straights into 90° corners.

Last edited by RockLobster; 06-10-05 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 06-10-05, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CodyHokieFD
you guys have been extremely helpful, thank you very much

After I get my first paycheck from my big new job itl be time to shop
You want to know about general road course braking from the best. Start and end your shoping here....

Bill Groshen - frozenrotors.com
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