SlvrRexx

Got my 1600cc secondary injectors in as well as fuel pump and rail. problem is it is ideling horribly and does not sound good at all. I set everything how the manual tells you too for injector data.: they told me lag time for injectors is .24
Fr-Pr 100% +0.00ms
Fr-Sc -.52ms
Rr-Pr 100% +0.00ms
Rr-sc -.52ms
Q-pr 550cc
Q-sc 1500cc(Because it doesn't go past 1500cc)

Do i need to get it tuned to work right???? or do you think it is a install problem.

Also when key is in the on position before the car is started i hear very loud click coming from my engine bay....yeh its one of those sparky kind of sounds which doesn't sound good.

My mechanic did all install, I saw him put on resistors one on each positive after the injector.

SlvrRexx

I just started the car and was playin with the pfc and it rumbled loudly then about 20secs into idel it stalled and now won't start

CCarlisi

I don't think your problem is related to the 1600s since they do not operate at idle. If you changed your secondary rail I will assume you also replaced the stock fuel pressure regulator with an aftermarket unit. It's been awhile since I've had a stock fpr, but from what I remember it uses a solenoid to provide lower than normal pressure at idle and then it switches off somewhere above idle to allow the fpr to increase fuel pressure at a 1:1 rate with manifold pressure.

If this is correct, and you eliminated the solenoid without retuning your fuel map, then your fuel pressure will be off at idle (when the solenoid is operating) or above idle (when it is not). If you did not eliminate the solenoid, then you may just have the wrong base fuel pressure dialed in.

SlvrRexx

yes i have a fpr. i'm not sure what he did with the solenoid. (is that what u think is causing the clicking?) do i change the fuel pressure with the bolt at the top of the fpr?

CCarlisi

I'm not sure what is causing the clicking. You can change the fuel pressure with the bolt on the top of the regulator, but doing so can have serious consequences.

My plan of attack would be as follows:
First, I would verify that you have the correct fuel pressure. (1) Ask you mechanic what pressure level he set the regulator to. (2) Ask him if he set it without the vacuum line attached. (3) Ask him if he disconnected the fpr solenoid.

Next I would re examine your PFC settings. I have never changed my injectors using the commander so I can't give you much input. With the datalogit you need the following settings
rear secondary ms =.40
Q secondary=1680
pri/sec transition=40%
sec transition 1.5ms

SlvrRexx

... He has no idea what he set fuel pressure at.... i dont have fuel pressure gauge, says i need to get one. I also don't have a datalogit.

so now i'm at the point of should i buy a datalogit and will fixing the fuel pressure and the datalogit fix this idel or...... is one/both the primary injectors messed up???? should i buy new primary injectors?

If there is anything wrong i think it is either the fuel pressure causing the bad idel or there is a bad primary injector. It used to idel with these injectors b4 he pulled them out and put them back in. wouldn't the datalogit only help once i start getting towards the rpms where the secondaries kick in???? so it would not have anything to do with the idel, right?

CCarlisi

Fuel pressure is very important for the following reason. The higher the pressure the more fuel comes out of the injectors during each pulse. If the pressure is too high you will get too much fuel at idle and the car will stumble and generally idle rough. The same is true to a lesser degree if the fuel pressure is too low.

As in he doesn't remember, or he never set the pressure??

You're kind of at a crossroads here. It will probably be cheaper to bring the car to a shop and pay them an hourly rate to fix the problem rather than buying all the tools to fix it yourself. Honestly, I think you should get your money back from the guy that installed the fuel system if he didn't even bother to set the fuel pressure to the correct level.

I don't think it's your injectors. Looking at this rationally, based on what you have told me, I wouldn't waste another 1/10th of a second on that possibility. If the ecu is mapped for 32psi of fuel pressure at idle and the regulator is set to 35psi you're getting 10% more fuel at idle. That can have a HUGE impact on how it runs and idles.

The secondaries do not operate at idle so playing around with the secondary settings using the datalogit or commander isn't going to help. HOWEVER, if he eliminated the solenoid, then the stock fuel map may need to be modified to compensate for the higher or lower pressure at idle. Again, I haven't had a stock fuel system for awhile so I'm not even sure my theory on the solenoid is correct.

You really need to get more info from the mechanic. The 3 questions I listed in my last post will significantly narrow down the spectrum of possibilities.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

This is wrong! The fuel pressure solenoid had only one function which was not and is not ever needed. Only while cranking(starting the engine) it would connect the FPR to atmospheric pressure instead of the partial vacumm caused by cranking. This caused the FPR to give a slightly higher pressure while cranking.

This is another useless piece that Mazda put on our engines. According to the Mazda manual, this was to help prevent vapor locking while cranking.

DOH! As if your pusher pump located in the gas tank would vapor lock, or that there would be vapor in the fuel rails. I have had mine out for 4 years here in hot Houston and never had hot cranking problems without it. In fact, my catr always cranks better when hot than cold.

SlvrRexx

I redid all my maps(IGL, IGT & INJ) last nite with a single turbo map from xs engineering.
yes my mechanic never set the fuel pressure to anything. he pretty much threw it on. What should the fuel pressure be roughly speaking?

For these new injectors and rail do i need to change anything with the PIM volt??? mine i believe reads all 100% for all rpm ranges.

CCarlisi

Thanks Chuck. As I noted above I wasn't certain of that.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

28 to 32psi idle
36 to 38psi at 0 psi boost
(36 to 38) + N at N boost

CCarlisi

If you do not have a datalogit how did you 'redo' all your maps. Most shops make changes to the BASE fuel map which you don't have access to from the commander. Therefore unless you know for certain that the base of the XS map matches the base map in your computer I wouldn't advise changing the injector map (basically a correction map of the base map).

Most maps are tuned for a fuel pressure gradient of 40psi. I'm not sure what the stock value is. To set the fuel pressure remove the FPR vacuum line from the manifold, adjust the fpr screw until the pressure is set to 40psi, then reconnect the vacuum line. After you've done this the pressure will be around 32psi at idle and 40psi when you're at 0 boost 0 vac.

Theoretically you shouldn't have to if the injector size settings have been correctly modified, but in my experience changing the injector size settings merely gets you in the ballpark. You really should do some testing with a wideband to see where you are.

alberto_mg

sounds like you need a real mechanic and a good tuner. or save for a new motor if you **** up while tuning.

SlvrRexx

thank you very much for the replies.

SlvrRexx

I figured out what was making the clicking. It is coming from my boost control unit. My pfc is saying i have .34bar when car ignition is in the on position. I believe that this is why i can't start my car anymore.... thinkin i have more booost then i do.

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

Dude, you need some help. Don't take this as bashing but whenever changing to large secondaries and an aftermarket pressure regulator you should plan on having the ECU setup by someone knowledgable.

I am concerned that you used the INJ settings and the ignition split from an XS PFC map. They leave negative split in their map for one, very bad. Second, they change fuel in four different locations in their maps (base, inj, water temp correction, and inj vs temp), two of which you cannot change without the Datalogit. Change your INJ settings back asap.

Next, I think there are better settings for large secondaries to prevent injector transition stumble. Get to someone knowledgable with a Datalogit so you can get the PFC setup optimally, it's not worth a blown motor or a crappy running car to go cheap here.

Finally, get a fuel pressure gage on the car. Cheapest solution is a $10-15 gage from Summit that will screw into a port on the regulator. Use this to set your idle pressure as chuck suggested.

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Do not run the XS Map. You will pop your motor.

Jason

SlvrRexx

Okay I put my INJ map back to normal.(I wrote everything down b4 i changed it). Today i'm gunna call xs and have my car taken up to them. thanks for the replys, Ill keep u guys updated on what goes on.

SlvrRexx

Have any of you guys had any problems with your boost control unit like I said before?? I'm hoping its not completly broken...i'm gunna unplug it and reset it hopefully

Xcessive

Did you get a apexi boost control kit? and if so make sure the map selection in the commander is set at #2 settting or the reading on the boost sensor will be way off and rich. Ralph Gzero

SlvrRexx

K here is the up-date. Took it into XS, they told me my engines shot. Front compression was way low, possibly broken seal. 85k on engine with single turbo since 25k. Now i gotta dig up the funds to buy myself a rebuild. .... upside.... at least it will be street ported. -_-